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December 7th 1941

Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by Triumph, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Silver Blue&Red

    Silver Blue&Red PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...and then little boy and fat man.:eek:
     

  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's bury the old PoFo forever. This is a reasonable point of view. I think there would be supporting evidence for a contrary view. But also: We don't know what would have happened, only what did happen.

    Regarding the statement that the A Bombs were impossible to use without civilian casualties, we used one to demonstrate the capability in the Trinity test. The question of what would have happened if we had done a demo blast that they would see and could measure is not answered. The question of what would have happened if we had attacked a heavily military target with them is not answered.

    We can't settle here (or anywhere) what Japan would have done in response to either.

    We're also ignoring that we did more damage in various conventional raids. This either questions the defensibility of the conventional raids, or weakens the case for outrage at the atomic bombings. Or both, to the delight of internet flamers everywhere.

    I do hope that my own time on this ride is over before any conflict of that magnitude and savagery comes to our shores. We were never on the receiving end of the worst of that war, on the home front. I hope we never are.
     
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  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN The fix is in. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    • Battle of the Tenaru - 917 strength, 774-777 killed.
    • Battle of Peleliu - 10,900 strength, 10,695 killed.
    • Iwo Jima - 20,530–21,060 strength, 17,845–18,375 killed.
    • Okinawa - 96,000 (76,000 Japanese), 78,166 killed.
    • Battle of Saipan - 32,000 strength, 29,000 killed.
    We may not know what would have happened, but it’s not out of bounds to assume that Allied estimates were not far off. Those were the numbers from territories. Imagine how they would have defended the mainland. Japan was outmanned and outgunned and they lasted as long as they did on tenacity and grit alone.
     
  4. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    December 7th, 1941....on vacation that morning. All I remember is the air was positively nippy.....
     
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  5. Adam Seward

    Adam Seward Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    78000 killed in a battle is absolutely mind blowing. What a sad loss of humanity.
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Pro Bowl Player

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    2 funny stories

    #1

    My uncle Valentine fought in the army under MacArthur in the pacific and was a war hero.He was jumped by 5 enemy and was the only one to walk away. At wars end he came back home and was illegally trapping down on the Nissitissiit river - if you know where that is. Anyway, the Game Warden caught Val in the act and tried to arrest him. He knocked the Warden out cold with 1 punch. Nobody ever bothered Val after that. People in that town are still sore when they see me because we have the same last name.

    Val was a self made man. Never actually had a job. Scrapped metal off and on and he and his pal would somehow get in the Fort Devens rifle range to pick up all the lead for scrap money. Another venture was digging up pine tress from the median on Route 3 and then sell them to builders. Told me the key to a long life is 12 beers a day.

    #2

    My uncle Stanley fought in the army over in Europe. Whenever the Nazis seized a city or town they hoisted banner or flags at all roads leading in. So, after the Nazis were kicked out of one town Stanley took one of the banners and brought it home with him. Unbeknownst to Stanley, his wife washed it and hung it outside on the clothes line to dry. Stan was upstairs when he heard the US Army planes flying back to Fort Devens he lived nearby in West Groton. He looks out side as sees the Nazi symbol plain as day and runs out to his wife that they might bomb his house because thinking a Nazi lived there.
     
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  7. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Exactly!

    And don't forget also all the while we basically armed the Soviet Union, China, and Britain, even for years before we were in the war. We literally were the arsenal for all of them in addition to ourselves.
     
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  8. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Awesome day!
     
  9. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Ironically more Japanese lives were spare on August 6th than Americans. Probably save 3 million Japanese men, women, and children because of the Enola Gay.
     
  10. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    The Whiners got F's in math apparently.
     
  11. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    @Elijah probably thinks we should have let the Japanese torture all of Southeast Asia and China too, and appease Hitler. Where do they find these people.
     
  12. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Dropping the A Bomb was a "do Gooder" deed which saved many millions. The world was lucky we were nice enough to do it, and loved human life enough to drop both.
     
  13. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's young and has good intentions.
     
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  14. ViperGTS

    ViperGTS Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I’d nuke the Japanese again if it was Aug ‘45. Those dudes were fanatical. Millions on both sides would have been killed. The nukes also saved millions of Japanese women and children from being annihalted because the Emperor expected eveyone to fight.

    So millions Japanese citizens can directly point to the bombs as the most likely reason they are here today. It isn’t the most glorious event but those 2 bombs allowed a sliver of rational thinking to occur to a people who were fanatics that otherwise would never have happened.
     
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  15. mosslost

    mosslost Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    @TB_Helmet
     
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  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Talk about "hot button" issues :D
     
  17. maust1013

    maust1013 In the Starting Line-Up

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    While I agree wholeheartedly with your final sentence I have found the older I get the easier it is for me to just internally smh and think "you're entitled to your dumbass opinion, you're welcome for that btw"

    The anonymity of the internet makes dumbassery on their part a painless exercise which has helped spawn an entire generation of graceless yet somehow inexplicably woefully uninformed children
     
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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The notion is simple.....somebody at some point would have dropped a nuke on someone else. It is best to learn the real lesson sooner rather than later. And no, the idea of it never happening is not realistic.

    One of the primary repsonsibilities of the commander in chief is to minimize casualties of their soldiers.
     
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  19. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Henry Ford sold trucks to the Nazis faster than we could destroy them.
     
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  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN The fix is in. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That’s fine. He can sell them trucks when his factory pumps out the planes that bomb them off the face of the Earth.
     

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