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December 7th 1941

Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by Triumph, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You ever see this? I consider it entertainment but there is some weird stuff in this video.

     
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The biggest things impeding this country's military capability are it's politicians and national debt.

    Its like the 85 Bears playing the 2017 Browns. Close for a bit before the roof caves in

    Defense Spending by Country
     
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  3. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some of the things that my dad had from WWII were pictures of victims of the concentration camps. One thing that Eisenhower insisted on was to record what happened in those horrible places. He knew that it was so horrible that people would try some day to say it didn't happen. That's also why he insisted that the people who lived around those death camps saw them in person.
     
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  4. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At some point our "public servants"need to work together for the common good. I hope I live to see that day.
     
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  5. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    Which reminds me: Need to rewatch The Final Countdown right after Tora! Tora! Tora!

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  6. Koma

    Koma In the Starting Line-Up

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    You wanted the IJN Hiryu to escape? Or Matt Garth to survive? :D


    In a good news/bad news development, a new version of Midway is being made (link). The bad news is that Roland Emmerich (Independence Day, Day After Tomorrow, 2012, etc) is directing. Maybe he'll stick to the real story, which is incredible enough, or maybe we'll get some oddball, Randy Quaid-type character sinking all four Japanese carriers in a shot-up Devastator. We'll find out sometime next fall.
     
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  7. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    Personally I'd like to see Emmerich take this in a Tora! Tora! Tora! direction, but I know that would not appeal to the masses. I'll gladly take a Saving Private Ryan direction as a Plan B.

    If he takes it in a Michael Bay Pearl Harbor direction, I'll be ticked. Bit anything is better than an Independence Day direction.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
  8. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only way that will ever happen is if term limits are implemented. The only things those jagoffs care about is getting re-elected. But seeing how they vote on those things it will never happen.

    For all the great fore site our forefathers had they didn't see "professional or career politicians" becoming a thing...sadly.
     
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  9. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Killing off Matt Garth was figgan stupid. No need for that.


    WTF is Nick Jonas doing is this movie? Gawd...
     
  10. Adam Seward

    Adam Seward Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The militarization of the South China Sea and their 1000MI anti ship missiles are interesting developments. They also have the first naval mounted rail gun. Thankfully their domestic jet engines aren’t much to write home about about and as a whole their military has not been tested so likely their protocols have serious execution gaps and in real time their command and control is a total unknown capability.

    I would seriously worry about their cyber and some sort of electromagnetic disruption as a form of engagement as well. The equivalent of a modern day carpet bombing, completely ruining everyday life for millions of civilians, can’t be discounted. I wouldn’t underestimate any near peers capability to execute something non-nuclear that the world hasn’t seen in the realm of unconventional warfare.

    https://media.defense.gov/2018/Nov/...DEMAIO_ELECTROMAGNETIC_DEFENSE_TASK_FORCE.PDF

    This is a read that points out the severity of a negative outcome with electromagnetics and how vulnerable we really are to it.
     
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  11. Adam Seward

    Adam Seward Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    My grandfather was born in 25 and enlisted in 42. Faked all kinds of signatures to get in. He ended up being a SeaBee, building quick turnaround landing strips, etc. Got shot in the leg, got nasty rashes, had to drink water contaminated by the dead, really awful stuff. He passed when I was young but still learned of what he did. I still have the Japanese Arisaka he brought back, it was a bolt action rifle used by the Japanese. It still has the crisanthimum seal on it, I guess is pretty rare because it represented the Imperial Seal and the Japanese were ordered to scratch the seal off their weapons before surrender.

    May god bless your families, sometimes I feel insignificant compared to what these men signed up for. It was a true call to arms that many responded to and ultimately gave it all for, so we could live free and at peace.
     
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  12. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those of us who have never fought in a war all we can do is respect the sacrifice of those who did and thank them for doing so.
     
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  13. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly NFL Picks Winner

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    Should be interesting.
     
  14. Hercules Rockefeller

    Hercules Rockefeller Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    This is a great post, economical in words yet descriptive and informative. So well stated.
     
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They were both the highest yield and lowest yield 2 atomic bombs in existence at that date. They were the only 2 atomic bombs on earth.

    It is true that more powerful, later weapons would have had higher yields.

    However, the purpose of developing the weapons that we developed was to defeat Germany, and they were repurposed to defeat Japan.

    So I'm not sure which alternate history we're meant to think would unfold, wherein we would not use little boy & fat man, but would use weapons that were developed later to ensure our edge over the U.S.S.R.

    Interestingly I began reading about the Ivy Mike H-bomb test today, I believe approximately a 10-megaton test. Apparently, 77% of that yield was owing to a fast fission reaction that was the catalyst for the fusion reaction. I just had no idea that a fission reaction of any kind could be that powerful.

    I was just thinking about some reading/viewing I was recently doing (The Man in the High Castle), and looked up early H bomb tests.

    To the point of the main thread: damn good war to have won rather than lost.

    Could it have been done without the purposeful bombing of civilians? Counterfactuals are counterfactuals because we do not have evidence for what could have been, only for what was.

    The war was won, and had to be won. All those who lost their lives at Pearl died for everybody who followed--everybody. Nothing penultimate about that war. At least, as of this writing. They secured, for that century, a world which liberal democracy eventually dominated uncontested. Every American should honor the memories of those lost that day, and all those who fought on the right side in WWII... and also all those who died, who weren't fighting at all (per the Hiroshima thoughts above).

    I wont weigh in on whether Hiroshima (or Dresden) had to happen. Even if they did have to happen, I think it's right to be at least sad at the loss of noncombatants. If such bombings had little effect on the war, it's worse than sad, but to know that answer we need perfect knowledge of counterfactuals, which we do not have.

    I'm old enough to just say yay, we beat the Nazis/Japanese and taught everybody that they really don't want to persecute their Jewish scientists.

    And I got nothing more political than that these days! :p
     
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  16. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet In the Starting Line-Up Weekly NFL Picks Winner

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    Agree. We are woefully unprepared on the cyber front. All of our military spending won’t amount to anything if we have a real war with them and they hack into our ridiculously vulnerable electric grid.
     
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  17. anditsgood

    anditsgood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    not expecting a reply or an in depth analysis with critical thinking
     
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  18. maust1013

    maust1013 Just Another Guy PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly NFL Picks Winner

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    And no doubt even those low expectations will not be met.
     
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  19. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good post overall even though I know you and I don’t agree on much, politically. That said, I don’t think it’s much of a logical leap to assume that a conventional (at the time) invasion of the Japanese mainland would have resulted in a massive loss of life - on both sides. The Marines in the Pacific Theater were absolutely ruthless and the Japanese, in the spirit of the Bushido Code, were very much ready to fight to the death. The Atomic Bombs were a more efficient way to end the war and were impossible to use without civilian casualties.
     
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  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Capitalism, baby. Ford was spitting out airplanes faster than the Germans and Japanese could shoot them down.
     
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