Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by blueberryicedcoffee, Oct 14, 2015.
hmmmm..... care to explain?
I think Romo is a good QB who is overhyped because he's in Dallas. He throws a lot of ints (he has not a full season where he has thrown less than 10 ints) and he makes dumb decisions in the 4th quarter. Is he in the top half, yes, top ten probably, but can he win you a championship, i say no. If you ask me right now who i would have instead of him i would go with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Big Ben, Russell Wilson. He's in that Eli, Rivers, Cam, Ryan tier.
One very competitive guy talking to another very competitive guy.
Nothing to see here. Time to move one.
12 TDs, 0 INTs
Beat our opponents to the tune of
38-27 (In Philly)
42-7 (won the division)
Actually, since 2009 in December, Romo has combined for 46 TDs, 8 INTs, 107 passer rating.
One is Tommy and one is Tony, 2011 - 2014
Besides 2012 (we had no running game, the defense was giving up points left and right, and had the worst OL in the NFL, so he was flinging that thing everywhere) their numbers are hardly different at all. This is not the Tony that fumbled the snap in Seattle years ago. He's been getting better and better. The question is - can his body hold up?
The knock against Romo isn't his numbers. It's that his team doesn't win when the season is on the line, something like 3 or 4 season finales where a win gets them in the playoffs but the Cowboys lose the game, unfair or not, the QB gets the blame.
Seems kinda ****y for Tony to say that. Only because the Dallas secondary is weak and their run game has been disappearing
I can only imagine how his teammates feel about it. I for one think it's great for a QB to express confidence in his team while he's out.
He makes dumb decisions in the 4th quarter? That seems unfair based on a few high-profile games.
Here are his 4th quarter splits:
65.1%, 8.4 YPA, 74 TDs, 30 INTs, 102.4 RAT
In fact, the 4th quarter splits are his second-highest quarter after the 3rd quarter. He's significantly better in the second half than the first. And his OT numbers are an extremely small sample size but even better than his 3rd/4th quarter splits, so I don't know what to say here about this comment.
If there is a hint of truth to the above, it's in tied games late in the 4th. Looking at his advanced splits, you see he's excellent when leading late in the game or trailing, but somewhat horrific in ties late (4 minutes left in the game). Then again, Brady's splits expose a similar drop in tie games. It probably has a bit to do with game planning for Brady and being conservative in some situations, but Romo is also more of a gunslinger than Brady and has thrown some bone-headed INTs at times.
It's also worth noting there's more of a story to those late-game splits.
82% of Romo's late-game pass attempts are in trailing positions. Brady and Rodgers clock in around 71-72%. That could be system-based, so it might be easy to dismiss. So let's also look at volume. Romo has attempted more passes trailing late than Brady, despite Brady playing 60 more games. Brady and Rodgers average 1.3 passes late per game, while Romo is at 2 attempts per game. He's in a trail position way more than many other top QBs, probably because his team sucks.
As for rankings, I know they vary. But if you put him in the Eli, Rivers, Cam, Ryan tier, it's worth noting, Eli won 2 Super Bowls, so I'm not sure how you can put him in that tier, then claim you can't win a championship with him.
Let's also not forget Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have also won Super Bowls as starting QBs, so I don't think it's fair to suggest Romo can't win one. Might be unlikely, but never is a bit too strong.
It's only October and Romo has already managed to secure himself SB tickets?!?
During that time Brady has taken almost 20 sacks and had 5 less fumbles. Not too mention that Romo plays in a dome this is not even competition
Romo is a gunsligner, a poor man's Favre. When you watch the games, you see a player that looks great and then consistently makes a boneheaded decision. Not too mention the fact that he takes so many needless hits to make a play (the guy doesn't even practice anymore).
Do you really put him ahead of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton (maybe not this year), Wilson, Big Ben?
Let me clarify, like Eli You can win a championship with him, but not because of him
Only if you're elite. He's not elite. It's like Ryan Tannenhill telling us he'll see us in the playoffs.
Read Supa's post, they play golf together in February.
I agree with you, I think he's been very good in the past few seasons and had an MVP-caliber season last year. I also have absolutely no problem with what he said; first, it's just a comment in passing, I'm sure they're friendly as QB's in the NFL tend to be. Plus, I hope to god Pats fans here aren't taking any offense to the comment, I don't understand how it would piss off ANYONE here. He's basically saying 'you guys are a lock for the SB, but we'll be there to meet you'.
Seriously guys, this is a non-event, an offhanded comment that just shows a little confidence in his team.
Anyway that aside, comparing Brady vs. Romo stat-wise is exactly what it used to be when it was Brady vs. Manning: you flat-out cannot compare dome vs. outdoor stadium QB's straight up. in 2005 or thereabouts, coldhardfootballfacts.com broke down Brady in dome vs. outdoor, Manning on dome vs. outdoor. This was before Brady took off stat-wise in 2007. And Brady was better across the board, with that one simple split involved. Fact is the entire AFCE plays in an outdoor stadium, three are cold-weather stadiums including Gillette. It's just not apples to apples. Not taking away from anything Romo's done the past few seasons, I consider him in that next tier of 'great' QB's (after Brady/Rodgers, alongside Ryan/Brees/Roethlisberger/Manning/possibly Luck). But all stats are not created equal, and Brady putting up a 95+ rating in December in Buffalo/NY/NE vs Romo doing the same in a dome or Washington or Philly is very different imo.
Every team has it's problem, in 2013 our offense was decimated we lost Welker, Hernandez, Gronk was out like 13 games, our pass catching back Vereen was injured, Amendola got injured his 1st game. TB was throwing to rookie WR's dropping balls and banging into each other much of the season.
Romo's a very good QB, he just need to put together a play off run. Sucks because you guy's had that
division locked up imo, now it looks like the Giants...
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Slow down there.
I like Romo. I think he's a good QB. I don't think I ever said anything remotely close to claiming he is ahead of Brady or Rodgers.
The closest I can think of is I used both Brady and Rodgers stats as comparison points to show common struggles, and some of the extra issues Romo faces. But Brady and Rodgers (in that order) are in their own tier. Ben and Wilson are probably in that next set.
Brees, Peyton, I take their primes over Romo's prime. But right this second? I think a healthy Romo is above Manning, and maybe even Brees. That puts Romo around 5 or 6 which isn't unreasonable.
Romo does make some bone-headed plays, and he is a bit of a gunslinger no doubt. But he also has to be. His team isn't very good.
He's had some poor performances in big games. And he's made some huge mistakes in high-profile games too. But quite often, people forget that they wouldn't even be close without him.
The Cowboys haven't been a good team for most of Romo's tenure. They lacked depth. They overpaid for lots of guys because of Jerruh. And sometimes Romo's gunslinger routine is all they have.
In 2013, he played in that huge shootout with the record-setting Broncos O and threw that awful pick late in the game. Everyone blamed him for the loss, but somehow overlooked that the Broncos put up 51 points. They never punted a single time all game. Damn right Romo should be gunslinging.
And even with the terrible throw, we forget that Manning also threw a pick that game. It's all about timing though. Manning threw for 414 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT. Romo threw for 506 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT. That INT did cost them a chance to win the game. But they have 0 chance to win without Romo playing out of his mind that game.
It would have been better for Tony if he played well but not great, and they lost by 21. Nobody would have blamed him then. But he gave them a chance against a record-setting offense that day, and his one mistake would be held against him while Manning got to skate free.
Advanced Football has an interesting read on him here:
The truth is Romo isn't as bad as the Skip Baylesses and other talking heads think. He's not as good as Jerruh thinks either. It's somewhere in the middle. But when people say he's terrible in the 4th, meanwhile the numbers show otherwise, it shows just how misleading a few prime time games can be.
Oh, and as for Eli, hate the ****er, wish he was never born, but you don't give him enough credit. He's not elite, but his team didn't win in spite of him. He's streaky, and when he's hot, he's hot. He's 8-3 in the play-offs, beaten Rodgers at his place, 5-1 on the road in the play-offs. He's thrown 15 TDs and 2 INTs in play-off wins, and 2 TDs and 6 INTs in play-off losses. They don't win or lose in spite of him, but rather because of him. Hate him, but he deserves more respect than you give him.
Pretty much agree with all of this.
I also remember Tony having stellar performances in huge games, and no one mentions a thing. Like last season vs Detroit in the Playoffs, 2 comeback drives in the 4th to win the game. No one even mentions it happened. Last year against Philly in Philly to get the NFCE lead with 2 weeks left. The year before that with a huge 4th qtr comeback drive to keep the team in playoff contention (with a broken back and had season-ending surgery the next day)
I also believe Russell Wilson is overrated. He's a good QB no doubt, but he's not elite at this point. I vividly remember watching a Seattle game a few years ago where he played terribly, 0 TDs and 2 INTs, and Seattle still managed to win by double digits because their defense was ridiculous. Tony goes out and throws 0 TDs and has a couple turnovers, you better believe we're going to get demolished.
If I had to rank the Top 5 QBs of right now, it would be something like
Discount Double Check
Cool Brees (sadly Brees is declining. I really like Brees)
In the past Peyton would definitely be up there, but he's just bad right now. And this isn't the past. Right now, Tony is playing lights out. Well not right now, because he has a broken clavicle. You know what I mean.
Romo is a good QB, my argument is that unlike Brady/Rodgers/Brees/P Manning (past) and to a lesser extent Wilson/Big Ben he cannot consistently take you to the playoffs with his play. Some of it has to do with his gunslinger mentality where he takes too many hits and gets banged up, some of it has to do with decision making. In fact i would probably take Eli over him because he plays every game. I watched the Saints game last night and the Saints defense is horrible (opportunistic yesterday), but Drew Brees with a crappy cast of characters was amazing and incredibly accurate (even with no running game). These are the type of players that win you games consistently and take you to the playoffs. As a result, Romo should not be acting like he's the man when he's not elite.
I like the debate, i think we both have valid points, i don't think we're going to change each others minds, but it's fun nonetheless.
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