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Butler visiting Saints

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs Jets
Pick Results: NYJ: 1.9% at NE: 98.1%

Sun
Oct 24th

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patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
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Why do people keep saying this? The top WR (Brown) makes more APY (17m) than the top corner (Norman - 15APY) and the franchise tag for a WR is 600k MORE than for a CB.
Just because stupid franchises have historically paid ludicrous amounts of money to very good WR's over the years, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Most of that money did NOT end up bringing championships to that owner. Often times it didn't even bring them playoff wins

I'm talking about value on the field, rather than value at the bank.
 

Mack Herron

Pro Bowl Player
You could argue ( not that I am) that as a RFA, Butler can negotiate with the Patriots or get an offer sheet from another team. Once the offer sheet is presented, Pats can match or reject and get pick #11 if that team is New Orleans...

If the offer sheet hasn't been presented and his tender is not signed, for the two teams to be discussing a trade in lieu of the tender process for a player NOT under contract would seem to be the consideration ( bargained for exchange)prohibited here.
I want to avoid any problems....
Just my $0.02,
It isn't crystal clear to be sure. But what you describe is what we did with Welker and irrespective of whatever consideration was exchanged. I'm not claiming any expertise, but it seems Butler is negotiating a contract with NO and people like Reiss and Florio agree that a trade can be negotiated. We will all see soon enough I suspect.
 
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mosslost

Pro Bowl Player
We have a better shot at having Randy Moss back in uniform that we do getting N.Orleans' #11 pick.

I'm holding out hope that we can still recoup the #32 if the Saints decide to become the first team in 14 yrs to offer an offer sheet to a first round tender, but even that may not be realistic. I think there's a much better chance that Butler signs his RFA tender and is traded.
If he signs it, why not keep him?
 

mosslost

Pro Bowl Player
As you know, Goodell can/will interpret things as he pleases.

"Pats traded #32 and a 3rd for Brandin Cooks and the provision that New Orleans won't actually provide an offer sheet to the RFA Butler. This impeded Butler's ability to negotiate with New Orleans because any contract offer was contingent on the Patriots and Saints working out a trade, which is in violation of how the CBA works. In addition, the Patriots essentially 'offered' Butler to New Orleans while he was not under contract with New England, and that consideration was used as a negotiating tactic when dealing with trade offers for Cooks from other teams. This is also a violation.

Since both clubs are repeat offenders, the NFL will impose the following penalties: the trades are all nullified, Cooks and Butler will immediately become UFA not subject to compensatory selections, the Saints and Patriots are fined $5M of cap space each which will be spread evenly among the NY Jets and NY Giants, the Saints lose pick #11 and Sean Payton is suspended for 2017, the Patriots lose pick #32, their 2018 own first rounder and any additional first rounders acquired via trade, and their 2019 third rounder and any picks acquired via trade in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds. The integrity of the game is now preserved. The teams may appeal directly to me."
Well it all does sound more probable than not
 

Big Bucks

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
The Saints have 15.8m in cap with top 51 counting.

Plenty to sign Butler to a good deal and also its draft pool that will be with #11 and not #32 be around 6.2m and without #11 and with #32 its projected at 5m.
Plus you can add the person who drops off the bottom of the 51.

Will be interesting to see if they resign Cadet, as rumoured on the rotoworld latest news.

To add Cadet signed last year to the Saints on a 1yr deal for $760k.. So not much cap spent as basically replaced #51 guy dropping out.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
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BB has more control over Butler if Butler has signed the tender than if he hasn't. Right now, Butler is perfectly free to talk to anyone and receive an offer sheet from anyone. Word has come down the Texans are potentially interested.

If Butler signs the tender, BB can slam the door shut on any team he wants for any reason he wants. Butler is completely and totally at BB's mercy and gives up the one single piece of leverage he has.
If they get an offer sheet, they are.
Well a lot of people think the Saints are willing to give up #32. Not too far of a stretch to say some other team may give up a pick in the 20's.

Belichick is a smart guy, but he's not God. It only takes one team to step up and make an offer. I don't think all 31 teams are informing Belichick in advance regarding their plans for RFA's.
Gimme a break. Butler played out his first deal, and is simply dealing with the restraints of being an RFA, as per the rules of the CBA regarding players with 3 accrued years. Belichick hasn't "check-mated" him in any way. They are each just playing the hands they've been dealt.

Malcolm would be stupid to sign the tender at this point in time. Nothing you say changes that. He risks nothing by waiting and loses a lot by signing.

You are a smart guy and know the ToC of RFA but we are talking past each other on different levels.
 

Brady6

Pro Bowl Player
If the Saints want to sign Butler they are giving up the #11 overall pick. We paid in full for Cooks, there was not any discount. The Patriots can keep Butler and even if he leaves they will still receive a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2019.
 

kennyb

In the Starting Line-Up
If the Saints want to sign Butler they are giving up the #11 overall pick. We paid in full for Cooks, there was not any discount. The Patriots can keep Butler and even if he leaves they will still receive a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2019.
Not true at all. It's negotiatable. If it's the #11, then they won't do it. A drafted cb in that slot would be cheaper and most likely much better. It's ridiculous.

Patriots can keep butler but why would they want to.
 

QuantumMechanic

Burn it all down!
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It isn't crystal clear to be sure. But what you describe is what we did with Welker and irrespective of whatever consideration was exchanged. I'm not claiming any expertise, but it seems Butler is negotiating a contract with NO and people like Reid's and Florio agree that a trade can be negotiated. We will all see soon enough I suspect.

Given that the CBA says any trade of a signed RFA during the signing period has to be agreed to by the player and the NFLPA, that pretty strongly implies the the player will be involved, either formally or informally, in any trade-related negotiations.
 
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Froob

Independent Investigator & pliable af
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Hard to know whether or not Belichick would keep a player who didn't want to be here, but I wouldn't count on it.
Somebody claimed Butler was ready to show up and play if he isn't traded. He's been a pro all the time he's here, I'd believe him.
 

patsfan-1982

In the Starting Line-Up
i think if saints were offering #11 he would have been traded alredy its more like a 2nd and if it goes down like that and i hope it dose not its almost even Cooks for butler.

only saints will have to pay butler 12+ million pats will let cooks play out his rookie contract and go from there
 
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