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Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Patriots want pick #11 - Howe)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsinthesnow, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. farn

    farn In the Starting Line-Up

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    Pretend the Butler situation is the gameday thread & shut er down !
     
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  2. Soul_Survivor88

    Soul_Survivor88 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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  3. Pessimistic Pete

    Pessimistic Pete 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    This. This off-season would be an A+ if not for this crap.

    "Here's today latest of update of how the best defensive player on our team in the prime of his career is going to be traded! The latest development makes it suck even more!

    The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"

    It goes without saying the Pats can overcome this and will still be rightfully heavy favorites to win #6 this year with or without Butler. But it just seems so unnecessary.

    I want this kid locked up for the prime of his career here. Butler makes us one of the best secondaries in the league, without him, it suddenly becomes a huge question mark (How will Gilmore be as the #1 here? How the hell will our #2 guy be? etc).
     
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  4. CelticPatriot

    CelticPatriot Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Why would the Pats make that trade? It's terrible value.
     
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  5. jboston19

    jboston19 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Is there a rule that forbids a third team from signing a RFA and trading him? For instance, Atlanta has 6 picks in this draft. If they signed Butler and traded him for 32 and some other picks to New Orleans, they'd be moving only one slot down in the first, gaining a few extra selections, and be none the worse for wear. Is that legal through the CBA or no?
     
  6. mosslost

    mosslost In the Starting Line-Up

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    yeah why wouldn't we keep the 11 at that point?
     
  7. mosslost

    mosslost In the Starting Line-Up

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    The only reason we would give up the 11 as you describe is that we already agreed to in some way linked to the Cooks deal. So, whether you like Cooks or not, you have to factor his value into whatever ends up happening. Everyone wants to say they are separate but they are linked. You can hate Cooks for Butler, that is fine.. but that is part of the value calculation.. definitely.
     
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  8. pherein

    pherein In the Starting Line-Up

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    I paid pete to say that sorry, Deal looks great to me. Only you trade us back the 5th for a bag of nachos, and not ranch.
     
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  9. ausbacker

    ausbacker TB12 PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Butler isn't the best defensive player on this team. IMO, it's Hightower or McCourty.
     
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  10. XLIX

    XLIX Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I suppose it's legal but keep in mind that Butler is under no obligation to just accept any offer sheet that any other team presents and the Patriots can choose to match any offer he does accept.

    So in order to sign Butler in the first place, the Falcons would have to offer a big enough contract to induce Butler to sign it - not to mention big enough that the Patriots won't match it. Presumably that would include a large signing bonus and/or a lot of guaranteed money. Of course, it would also have to be small enough that the Saints were willing to adopt the contract. I can't imagine a situation where it is worth going through all that trouble to pick up a 4th rounder.

    Plus I'd bet Butler could file a grievance against that if he wanted to so he would have to be on board with the whole plan as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 11:38 PM
  11. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Amen........
     
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are no decisions for now. I trust that the team will keep $6-$10M available in case it wants to match a one-year offer 0f $10-14M instead of taking the 1st.

    Otherwise, we will wait until April 23rd and decide then what offers we think the team should accept for Butler's services. Perhaps, at that point, the patriots would rather have Butler for one year than take the offers available.
     
  13. UptownPatsFan

    UptownPatsFan Standin' Pat PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agree & soon to be Flowers
     
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  14. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unofficially nothing........both these teams were officially punished for unofficial things

    I am sure they don't want to wind up on the end if that stick again
     
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  15. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    The other scenario is if BB believes that Butler will be so discontented with playing for $3.9 million under the first round tender that BB feels it necessary to move him. And if New Orleans (or anyone else for that matter) is unwilling to part with a first round pick, then the Patriots - IF BB feels what's best for the team is trading Butler no matter what - will indeed have to take less than a first round pick to make that happen.

    Of course, none of us knows anything about how BB feels about the situation.
     
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  16. ashley1992

    ashley1992 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh Farn, you are too much lol
     
  17. kennyb

    kennyb In the Starting Line-Up

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    Completely WRONG.

    Pats are entitled to 11 only if the saints sign butler to an offer sheet.

    Sants haven't done that and most likely won't. Saints are trying to negotiate a trade and are not offering the 11th pick.

    The pats aren't entitled to anything other than the what is offerred in the trade. PERIOD. That's it. Take the trade or keep butler, or negotiate further.

    Number 11 is available ONLY IF NO signs him to an offer sheet. They AREN'T DOING THAT. It is thus IRRELEVANT.
     
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  18. moosekill

    moosekill Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I want to make sure I understand this.

    Option 1 is Butler agrees to a contract with the Saints. If this happens then
    1a. The Patriots match the offer then Butler stays in New England at the agreed upon contract and the Saints get nothing.
    1b. If the Pats don't match the offer, the Pats get NO's pick #11 and Butler goes to NO. This hasn't happened in the league in a long time because I guess teams value their #1 picks more than signing a free agent to a contract higher than their original team is willing to pay, and having to give up their first round pick.

    Option 2 Butler doesn't agree with NO and signs the RFA thingy and then is back to the Patriots for $3.9 mill this year.
    2a. Patriots could sign him to a long term deal if they want.
    2b. Patriots could trade him to another team for whatever they can get. Which could be NO's 32 pick, a second round, or whatever another team is willing to pay.
    2c. Patriots could do him nothing and let him play here this year for $3.9 million then either he walks, he works out a long term contract, or he is franchised for 2018.

    Am I missing anything or is this right, I got lost in the long discussion about the collective bargaining and the teams discussing stuff before hand, and teams working stuff out, and the Cook wink wink nod nod stuff.

    I must admit, having the Saints spend all this time working out a contract with Butler while thinking the Patriots will turn around and trade him for a lower pick than #11 seems a little far fetched, but I guess we will see.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM
  19. luuked

    luuked PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Am getting tired of this #11 bullshit hanging around. It won't happen and everyone knows it except the media doesn't want to let it go for drama's sake.

    In this draft I'd rather have #42 and #76 than #32. There is only minimal difference between the players you get after #20ish up until the end of the second round.
     
  20. moosekill

    moosekill Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I think the odds are small but it either will or it won't, but we shall see.
     

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