Business Week: Pete Carroll's favorite mistake...

[hallfamebrady]

...was taking the Pats job while following in Parcells footsteps

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/six_tales/source/3.htm

BB bailed Kraft out in a big way.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The guy shouldn't believe his own BS and forget that his current success has a lot to do with his ability to attract talented high school football players to a program run by a laid back coach in a laid back region of a laid back state with tons of hot girls so football players can get....

well you get the point

College football is all about recruitment.

Profootball is about the Xs and Os and of real talent evaluation and real motivation of real men to run through walls for you.

Pete couldn't handle that, whether it was his age old comments that "if we only had another quarter, we could have won" or his inability to keep the respect of his players, most clearly demonstrated when Bledsoe and the rest of the team ignored his desparate "time out" call from the sidelines, calling their own play to win the game.

I think pretty much everyone recognizes Carroll for what he is - as a great college recruiter, good defensive coordinator, and awful NFL head coach.

 

[hallfamebrady]

The guy shouldn't believe his own BS and forget that his current success has a lot to do with his ability to attract talented high school football players to a program run by a laid back coach in a laid back region of a laid back state with tons of hot girls so football players can get....

well you get the point

College football is all about recruitment.

Profootball is about the Xs and Os and of real talent evaluation and real motivation of real men to run through walls for you.

Pete couldn't handle that, whether it was his age old comments that "if we only had another quarter, we could have won" or his inability to keep the respect of his players, most clearly demonstrated when Bledsoe and the rest of the team ignored his desparate "time out" call from the sidelines, calling their own play to win the game.

I think pretty much everyone recognizes Carroll for what he is - as a great college recruiter, good defensive coordinator, and awful NFL head coach.

How much do you want to bet Pete is back off to the NFL if a team comes calling? If he means his words, he stays at USC for life because it is an easy challenge.

Also, BB is a great coach because he takes the challenging situation and thrives.

 

[JoeSixPat]

How much do you want to bet Pete is back off to the NFL if a team comes calling? If he means his words, he stays at USC for life because it is an easy challenge.

Also, BB is a great coach because he takes the challenging situation and thrives.

He'll flirt with the NFL only as leverage to up his salary.

 

[hallfamebrady]

The scary thing is that the series of articles was on GREAT LEADERS who have thrived as a result of making mistakes. Pete Carroll is not a great leader despite his success at USC

 

[RayClay]

Don't know if Pete had the make up for an NFL coach.

I do know following Parcells wasn't his main problem. People hated the way Tuna left and would have given Poodle a chance.

He might have been in an untenable situation with Krafty and his puppy Bobby Grier.

He needed to come in and punch Grier in the mouth and tell Kraft he needed control.

After Parcells, maybe Kraft wasn't going to give control and didn't learn until he had the right situation?

Either way, with Grier's pitiful drafts and his meddling with player discipline, (if their was any), Petey was a Eunuch from the start and it was merely a matter of time.

Love him or hate him, Parcells knows a no win situation when he sees one and takes action one way or the other.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I dont think so. A winning college coach, like Carroll and even Charlie Weis, are treated like royalty on campus and around campus..... it's almost like being king of the world. Why give it up, especially when the money is getting to be almost as good as the pros.

Something I'm sure you know little about NEM...EGO.

Oddly Kraft is on record saying Pete never had a fair shot here (probably because of the entitlement culture that re-emerged in the wake of Tuna's departure, and the incompetence in the FO that remained) and that is one of his regrets because he does think Pete could be a very successful HC. Probably wouldn't play well here, but as a replacement for a guy like Vermeil or Shottenheimer or compared to some of the stiffs who have managed to hang around or recycle their way to lengthy NFL HC careers, I don't doubt Pete will return to the NFL one day soon. Only he'll pick a better situation with a fanbase less intense and a lower level of expectation. I have a feeling Charlie is smarter and has his priotities in better order and will not return to the NFL meatgrinder.

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
Pete couldn't handle that, whether it was his age old comments that "if we only had another quarter, we could have won" ....

I missed Pete saying that.
But it reminds me that it was said of ... though he didn't say it himself ...
the legendary Bobby Layne that
he never lost a game ... but sometimes the clock ran out on him.

But Carroll's mistake certainly wasn't COMING HERE.
It was how he ran his team ... once he got here.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Isn't this amazing?

We all know what Pete Carroll's mistake was: he lost control of the team. The character flaw corresponding to that: weakness and indecisiveness.

So how does Pete present himself for the benefit of a load of businessmen killing time on their flights? As someone who can't back out of an impossible challenge. Character flaw: overambition.

Yeah, right ...

 

[Patjew]

Pete couldn't handle that, whether it was his age old comments that "if we only had another quarter, we could have won" or his inability to keep the respect of his players, most clearly demonstrated when Bledsoe and the rest of the team ignored his desparate "time out" call from the sidelines, calling their own play to win the game.

I remember watching it happen, but not the specific details. What game was that?

 

[belichickaholic]

I don't agree with this at all. Each year he was here, the team got worse than the year before. He had three years here. Belichick won a superbowl in two years here with basically the same stars.

Three things worked against him.

1. bad drafting

2. Drew Bledsoe

3. His own personality.

 

[billikens]

Don't know if Pete had the make up for an NFL coach.

I do know following Parcells wasn't his main problem. People hated the way Tuna left and would have given Poodle a chance.

He might have been in an untenable situation with Krafty and his puppy Bobby Grier.

He needed to come in and punch Grier in the mouth and tell Kraft he needed control.

After Parcells, maybe Kraft wasn't going to give control and didn't learn until he had the right situation?

Either way, with Grier's pitiful drafts and his meddling with player discipline, (if their was any), Petey was a Eunuch from the start and it was merely a matter of time.

Love him or hate him, Parcells knows a no win situation when he sees one and takes action one way or the other.

I agree with you Ray. Carroll was stuck with Bobby Grier's personnel decisions, which were bad, thus the team deteriorated year-to-year. That and Bobby's undermining his authority probably doomed Carroll. It took Belichick a couple years to rebuild the team, and that wasn't Carroll's fault. I'm not saying the same thing wouldn't have happened if Carroll was in charge like Parcells wanted to be and Belichick is, but he wasn't and Bobby Grier's ****ty personnel decisions had a lot to do with the Pats of the late 90's.

 

[RayClay]

I agree with you Ray. Carroll was stuck with Bobby Grier's personnel decisions, which were bad, thus the team deteriorated year-to-year. That and Bobby's undermining his authority probably doomed Carroll. It took Belichick a couple years to rebuild the team, and that wasn't Carroll's fault. I'm not saying the same thing wouldn't have happened if Carroll was in charge like Parcells wanted to be and Belichick is, but he wasn't and Bobby Grier's ****ty personnel decisions had a lot to do with the Pats of the late 90's.

I think his personality wasn't right for the team either, but it was a bad situation for the reasons you, (and me) stated.

I think BB knows about no win situations, (Cleveland).

 

[JoeSixPat]

I remember watching it happen, but not the specific details. What game was that?

"Botched timeout" indeed. They were actually showing replays of Bledsoe, Glenn and others looking right at Carroll, and ignoring him.

This marks the point at which I and a lot of other fans who had previously been supportive of Carroll knew that he had to go. The beginning of the end as it were, at least in terms of public perceptions... it was now painfully apparent to everyone that Carroll had no control of his team.

If that were Parcells or BB coaching, Bledsoe and anyone else who defied the coach would have been immediately benched, regardless of the outcome. No coach should stand for insubordination.


This was a great finish regardless - and stands out as another one of Bledsoe's tough guy moments, playing with a broken finger, leading to more drama a few games later.

23 November 1998
This 1998 game between the Patriots and the Dolphins came at a crossroads for the New England Patriots franchise. Multiple injuries had helped drop the Patriots from a 4-1 season start to 5-5, and in the days before the game team owner Robert Kraft announced that the franchise would move from Foxboro, MA to a new stadium in Hartford, CT following unsuccessful negotiations with the city of Boston, MA for a new stadium on Boston's waterfront - a move subsequently aborted the following April following collapse of a funding proposal for the Hartford stadium.

With Patriot fans upset but nonetheless supportive of their team, the Patriots took to the field for an important AFC Eastern Division match-up with the Dolphins. The Dolphins held a 23-19 lead in the final two minutes of the game, and on the Patriots' final possession quarterback Drew Bledsoe broke his right index finger after striking the helmet of lineman Todd Rucci.

A botched timeout call in which Patriots coach Pete Carroll called for timeout but the players, not seeing him, ran a successful fourth down conversion, led to a red zone showdown between the Bledsoe-led Patriots offense and the Miami Dolphins' stiffening defense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't agree with this at all. Each year he was here, the team got worse than the year before. He had three years here. Belichick won a superbowl in two years here with basically the same stars.

Three things worked against him.

1. bad drafting

2. Drew Bledsoe

3. His own personality.

The bad drafting had NOTHING to do with him - that was Bobby Grier's domain and even Kraft was involved.

Drew Bledsoe came with the package. And the new coach was supposed to free Drew's spirit to soar like an Eagle. Instead Drew floundered and then took the back stairs to the executive suite and stabbed his new HC he wanted in the back. He would have tried the same with Belichick eventually (because it was never ever Drew's fault) but fate intervened in the form of Tom Brady (with an assist from the great Mo Lewis).

He was probably too laid back for this team in this town with the culture of entitlement that existed in the locker room and the cutthroat media waiting to pounce on anyone who wasn't their beloved and irascible Tuna.

And Bob Kraft will tell you he didn't have the kind of ownership support that Belichick had from day 1 because Kraft had to learn how to differentiate between involvement and meddling, and after Tuna he had to learn how to trust a HC at all.

 

[hallfamebrady]

Pete still does not understand why he was fired as the HC of the NEP. He is in denial about the fact he screwed up and is not suited for the NFL. Pete is number one on the accountability list for the team's failure during this time.

Some things Pete forgot to mention:

1. Although he points to his 27 - 21 record, he fails to point out they were moving in the wrong direction (10 - 6, 9 - 7, 8 - 8). The Pats were awful in the second half of 1999 going 2 - 6. They should have been 0 - 8. BB exposed Bledsoe in a big way in week 9 and was all down hill from there.

2. The players were always in trouble with the law when he was coach. The highlight being the Palace brawl between Milloy and Brisby. Look at how BB and Pete handled Terry Glenn.

3. Pete's answer wanting to take on an "impossible challenge" is like saying your biggest weakness is working too hard in a job interview.

4. The verbal beating Pete took from Ron Borges in a press conference about players missing tackles. Pete was unresponsive and showed no leadership.

BB faced even greater challenges in coming to NE. BB had more of an "impossible challenge" due to his Parcells ties, leaving the Jets at the alter, and the damage Carroll had done. He was also given a team with major salary cap issues due to Pete's mismanagement.

What Pete should have said: I learned my management style is not suitable for the pro level. I found my niche in the NCAA and realized I can succeed while not trying to reach the "impossible challenge." His comments lead me to believe some pro team will come calling and Pete is arrogant enough to try and fail again.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Pete Carroll will never command the respect it takes to be a successful HC in teh NFL.

His best shot at being successful in his return to the NFL is as a DC. In that role his great technical knowledge serves the team best.

But as far as being a motivator and holding people accountable, from the HC positon, he is not the man.

Good luck at USC Pete, and for your own best interest, please continue to stay there.

 

[patfanken]

I thought the article was right on the money. Pete Carroll was a better HC than most here would give him credit for. Think about what BB's record would be if he had to deal with the draft picks that Carroll got during those 3 years. When the injuries hit, Carroll had no one to go to. Don't forget that Carroll was 2 missed AV FGs from being 10-6 his last season, and that in 3 years he never had a losing season.

He had a lot going against him. He was following Parcells, he had perhaps the worst GM in the league giving him players, he had Drew Bledsoe instead of Tom Brady...and I liked Bledsoe, but we've found out that he's no Tom Brady.

BOTTOM LINE - He was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Though I agree it would be nuts for a guy in his possition to want to reenter the NFL pressure cooker. At USC he has a short season, a chance to reload each year, and nice weather. Probably the only thing that would draw him back are threads like this one where people doubt his ability to make it in the NFL.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I thought the article was right on the money. Pete Carroll was a better HC than most here would give him credit for.

If not for his inability to motivate players and hold the respect of his team, Pete would be a great HC in the NFL.

(aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?)

 

[hallfamebrady]

When the injuries hit, Carroll had no one to go to. Don't forget that Carroll was 2 missed AV FGs from being 10-6 his last season, and that in 3 years he never had a losing season.

You are what you are as Tuna says. The team was awful the second half of the 1999 season. They started 4 - 0 and ended 2 - 6. The last game was against Baltimore and they mailed it home. They were going backwards not forwards

He had Drew Bledsoe instead of Tom Brady...and I liked Bledsoe, but we've found out that he's no Tom Brady.

Bldesoe was considered by many to be the first half MVP in 1999. They faced the Jets in week 9 and it was all downhill. BB did a job on him that every team copied. He was 7 - 19 with the Pats from that game on.