"Business As Usual" or "Full Rebuild Mode"?

[iapatsfan]

Give me a break. I get the idea that the guy's a convenient scapegoat for last year's offensive struggles, but the offense sucked before he got there and he was acquired midseason then got hurt, why should anyone have been surprised he didn't set the world on fire?

The guy's been a 60/750/5 guy his entire career with multiple quarterbacks and offensive systems and was on pace for the best season of his career after the Ravens game, when he suffered a bad injury.

On the open market, his level of consistent production would cost twice as much as he's going to get paid next year. Point to a single remaining free agent who could be counted on for 60 catches next year who would cost $6.5m.I'll wait.

The 2nd round pick isn't coming back whether he's on the roster next year or not, so cutting him would be an incredibly stupid move.

The guy was a sufficient alternative option when he was on the same field as two of the best WRs of all time. Unfortunately he doesn't have Julio Jones or A.J. Green opening up the field for him anymore.

60 catches? I'll take the under.

He's a bum. Send him packing.

 

[primetime]

The guy was a sufficient alternative option when he was on the same field as two of the best WRs of all time. Unfortunately he doesn't have Julio Jones or A.J. Green opening up the field for him anymore.

60 catches? I'll take the under.

He's a bum. Send him packing.

When did AJ Green become one of the best receivers of all-time? When did Julian Edelman become a guy that everyone wrote off?

 

[iapatsfan]

When did AJ Green become one of the best receivers of all-time? When did Julian Edelman become a guy that everyone wrote off?

Fine, say last 20 years if it makes you feel better. Doesn't change the reality.

 

[patman12]

I vote for full evaluation year. BB will see if Stidham is the answer and will spend some coin next year to add quality players to the roster.

 

[203Pat]

I’m on record for wanting a full rebuild. I did not want to see Brady ever play elsewhere but it looks like that bandaid has been ripped off. The only real investments I want to see are in the trenches. Draft a tackle at 23, kick Wynn inside to guard and get a third a year early for Thuney. Hope Mason and Cannon bounce back and sign a mid tier swing tackle just in case. On the D line draft a DT and sign a mid tier space eater and see if Cowart develops.

Outside of the trenches I want to see how all these rookie contract guys look. I want to see if Bentley and Winovich can take the next step with more playing time. I wouldn’t mind floating Gilmore’s name out there on the trade block as his stock will never be higher. See if JC Jackson can be the player that the rumor mill seems to think he can be.

Have a true camp battle between Kessler and Stidham. If Stidham can’t beat out Kessler then we should just assume we will be in the ballpark to draft Lawrence. Whomever starts at QB they need to draft at least one NFL caliber TE and tell every single TE from the 2019 roster to get lost.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So many good players are age 30 and older I think they have to keep competing.

.

 

[mgteich]

Dunno why when I quote you, it's showing this 2nd part I can't see -

but Sanu was a desperation trade. ATL knew this. They used it as leverage, I would imagine.

Agreed.

We should just acknowledge that belichick paid a 2nd instead of a 4th because he was being blackmailed, and had little choice.

Let's move on. Sanu has a $6.5M cap hit and is injured. We have choices. But let's start with whether Sanu is worth having for competition and work up from there. Perhaps, after he is recovered, we should cut him and sign someone else. More LIKELY is that Sanu will be extended. We obviously need a #3 WR for the next 3 years.

 

[supafly]

It seems odd that all offseason, it was either:

—Brady returns, but there’s little money to spend on other areas of the team

OR

—Brady leaves, and they’re able to spend more money on star players

And now, it’s somehow neither.

 

[Vindicate]

It seems odd that all offseason, it was either:

—Brady returns, but there’s little money to spend on other areas of the team

OR

—Brady leaves, and they’re able to spend more money on star players

And now, it’s somehow neither.

I don't know of too many people who thought we'd be able to get star players, even in the case of Brady leaving.

 

[supafly]

Perhaps, after he is recovered, we should cut him and sign someone else. More LIKELY is that Sanu will be extended.

Why would they make a longer term commitment to Sanu right now? To free up 2-3 million dollars? Belichick wouldn’t make this move this year, would he? I don’t think it’s likely.

 

[supafly]

I don't know of too many people who thought we'd be able to get star players, even in the case of Brady leaving.

Seriously? Posters here threw around big name WRs for months. AJ Green, Stefon Diggs, OBJ, and any number of TEs.

That’s not even bringing up the numerous bridge QB discussions that are still going on. There was plenty of talk regarding Teddy Bridgewater, Philip Rivers, etc.

 

[Vindicate]

Seriously? Posters here threw around big name WRs for months.

AJ Green, Stefon Diggs, OBJ, and any number of TEs.

I think most touting those names knew they were pipe dreams. Maybe that was just me giving them the benefit of the doubt, though lol. I do remember Hooper's name getting tossed around a bunch, but I never saw anyone actually do the breakdown as to how that math would've worked out with regards to our cap.

I dunno, you could be right, I'm not saying I am.

 

[mgteich]

It seems odd that all offseason, it was either:

—Brady returns, but there’s little money to spend on other areas of the team

OR

—Brady leaves, and they’re able to spend more money on star players

And now, it’s somehow neither.

???

Now McCourty, Slater and Thuney aren't "star" players. Sheesh!

 

[Ivan]

I think Belichick is rebuilding but he’s trying to create as many really good units as he can, he’s never going to tank because that is a loser mentality,

 

[Boomer B]

It's not entirely fair to call it complex, but the Patriots offense was based entirely around Brady's feel for the game. Receivers needed to see the game the way Brady did or it didn't work. The offense will necessarily be different.

I agree with you the system will be different, but I’m not entirely optimistic the system will be successful.

Brady made the system go, not the coaches. Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels saw very limited success without Brady. Bill O’Brien has seen moderate success without Brady. Add in that we are limited in talent at our skill positions, and we are looking at a tough year on O.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I agree with you the system will be different, but I’m not entirely optimistic the system will be successful.

Brady made the system go, not the coaches. Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels saw very limited success without Brady. Bill O’Brien has seen moderate success without Brady. Add in that we are limited in talent at our skill positions, and we are looking at a tough year on O.

I'm surprised we haven't had a "Thank You Bill" thread with what we know about Bill O'B & MP. Talk about disasters.

O'B has a legit top ten QB too and has been gods awful in almost every department.

 

[mgteich]

Why would they make a longer term commitment to Sanu right now? To free up 2-3 million dollars? Belichick wouldn’t make this move this year, would he? I don’t think it’s likely.

Sure, Bill could just let Sanu have a "show me" year and move on. We'd get a 2022 4th after all. The team has seen lots and lots of Sanu. Maybe the fans are right and he is worthless. And maybe not. Given the current ap situation over the next 5 years, extending a player like Sanu makes sense to me, especially when Edelman will be gone in the next year or two, or even sooner.

And just BTW, there are lots of ways to structure contracts so that additional commitments to Sanu are relatively minimal. We could cut him and have a $6.5M hit. We could extend him for yes ONLY a few million of cap savings. Consider a contract with a $2M 2020 salary, $6M bonus over 3 years, plus incentives. We'd save $2.5M, and pay $8M for 2020 instead of $6.5M. We would save the space (could be a bit more) and buy an option on his services for 2021 and 2022.
Obviously those prices would need to be negotiated, But no matter where we end up, we would save 2020 cap money, and perhaps have cap costs in later years.

 

[primetime]

Sure, Bill could just let Sanu have a "show me" year and move on. We'd get a 2022 4th after all. The team has seen lots and lots of Sanu. Maybe the fans are right and he is worthless. And maybe not. Given the current ap situation over the next 5 years, extending a player like Sanu makes sense to me, especially when Edelman will be gone in the next year or two, or even sooner.

Sanu's a totally uninspiring player but people acting like he's replaceable under current circumstances are talking completely from irrational emotion. He's going to be a major part of the offense, for better or worse.

(Add to that the fact that a lot of posters here just don't watch football beyond the Patriots so it's like Sanu sprung into existence fully grown when he was traded.)

 

[primetime]

I'm surprised we haven't had a "Thank You Bill" thread with what we know about Bill O'B & MP. Talk about disasters.

O'B has a legit top ten QB too and has been gods awful in almost every department.

Lots of people talking like Belichick is some mediocrity on this board the last few days and lmaooo

 

[NormZauchin]

We are half-way though Week One of free agency. To me, the situation in at QB and receiver obscures our view of the rest.

DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAMS
As I look at the team, I see business as usual on the defense and special teams. Yes, we need help inside at DT and LB. To have such needs so early in the acquisition process isn't very unusual. And yes, as ALWAYS, we could use another stud pass rusher (almost every team could, so this too is "business as usual".

OL and RB
I see business as usual in the OL and RB. Of course, there are question marks on the OL. But, we have 5 starters, plus hopes for Froholdt and Cajuste. As usual, we will sign and draft potential starters. Sure, Cannon might be cut and replaced (with his cap money). Of course, we don't know who will be our best RB in 2020, but we have a good mix to compete, include a 2019 #2 pick. We don't know if Develin is coming back. We already have signed a backup/replacement [more business as usual].
==============
OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO IN THE PASSING GAME

FB/Blocking TE
My guess is that Vitale can be our FB if necessary. Also, if Develin is back, Vitale might serve as blocking TE, or at least as #3 TB/#6 OL.

QB
??? Almost anything is possible

TE
??? LeCosse is an OK #3 TE, competing with the #2 TE for reps. We still need a #1 TE and a #2 TE.

WR
???

We need a #1 WR (a trade is the most likely effort, plus draftees for the future)
Edelman could be the #2 if he wants to stay (if not we need to trade and draft a couple)
Harry will be part of the mix.
Sanu is likely to stay; he could be cut and his money used on a replacement (probably about equal)
Bryd is OK as a Gunner upgrade.

The bottom line is that we only need 5 WR if one is a returners. Otherwise 4 is plenty. [Check the production of #4's and #5's in the past if you want confirmation].

#1 WR ???
#2 WR Edelman and/or draftees
#3/#4/#5 Sanu (or replacement with his cap money), Harry, Byrd, (Meyers), (Gunner)

BOTTOM LINE NEEDS
LB
LB
DT
QB
WR
WR
TE
TE
swing OT

Is this worse than at this time in
2017?
2018?
2019?

Is the situation worse enough to believe that the team will go from 12-4 to being non-competitive for the playoffs? I'm not buying. We have a month before the draft. I expect Belichick to add a half dozen players, many which will no be at all exciting. For example, we could re-sign Calhoun and Newhouse to compete in camp. I expect at least a DL, a LB, an OL and a WR.

Significant trades are unpredictable. Such a trade might happen before, during, or after the draft.
It seems very likely that we will need to trade for a WR and a TE.

You forgot to mention that we need to sign a veteran offensive tackle who will retire the first day after camp opens.