Building your draft board - Final - Master Board

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 17, 2006

shirtsleeve · Apr 18, 2006

Thank you, Box, for all of your hard work.

My shopping list:

1) 12 different starters last year. DB's! Our current crop has talent but also seems too fragile. And we need at least one elite corner.
1A) CB. Shutdown cover corner.
1B) Rodney was hurt and has a few miles. Project
player to learn from and someday replace him.

2) DE/OLB Willie replacement project...and/or

3) ILB Vrabel replacement so he can move outside

4) RB Pass or Faulk replacement project. No Dillon replacemets available this year.

5) OG/C project/practice squad. Big if: if there are any around worth taking.

6) Solid tough #2 reciever. A few available mid rounds.

7) ST's K, KR/PR, Gunners.

After the draft: An upgrade at the strength/conditioning coach, or more help there. Near the top of the league 2 of the last 3 years in injuries is not just a co-incidence.

rookBoston · Apr 18, 2006

Shopping List

QB - a late round pick
RB - a prospect with upside; or a PR who can compete on 3rd down
WR - at least one solid prospect; a starter, if we can find one
TE - a #3 TE and ST player, well rounded, who could take Graham's role in 2007
OT - practice squad material
OG - nah
OC - Koppen insurance needed, with positional flex (to play OG)
NT - depth would help
DE - someone to compete with Hill and Klecko
OLB - a starter, if we can find one; otherwise someone for the rotation
ILB - a starter, if we can find one; otherwise someone for the rotation
CB - an elite prospect, hard hitting with good hands
S - Rodney insurance, optional
K - a starter
P - nah
LS - competition for Lonnie
KR/PR - one or two solid options neeed

Needed to contribute in 2006:
1) OLB/ILB
2) WR
3) ILB/OLB
4) K
5) PR/KR

Role player to groom for 2007:
6) TE
7) OC
8) CB
9) RB

Role player to groom for 2008+:
10) NT
11) S
12) LS
13) BPA filler: QB, DE, WR(2), LB(3), OT

mgteich · Apr 18, 2006

If we need five draftees to contribute in 2006, then we are not a playoff team as of now. A team like Cleveland NEEDS five players to contribute. bb pride himself with not NEEDING contributions from rookies unless there are multiple injuries.

IMHO, we need a linebacker (preferably outside), which I had hoped would come from another team, rather than the draft. As rook has pointed out, we may now need three draft choices to move up to get a linebacker in the first. And we would still likely use another pick later. We now have Colvin, Alexander, Banta-Cain and Claridge as OLB's. Two more could easily make the squad. If there are no transactions before the draft, the one need will drive our entire draft strategy.

As rook further points out, the team is prepared to use the draft picks on this one position because the Management has done such a great job in building depth throughout the rest of the team (except at receiver).

Mike the Brit · Apr 18, 2006

Shopping List

1. Wide Receiver (but we should not overpay for mediocre talent)

2. Linebacker (surely there will be one good one available to us)

3. Strong Safety (only if a possible Rodney replacement is available)

4. Nose Tackle (back-up)

5. Developmental QB (if Cassel is good enough to be the primary back-up, now is the time to go fishing)

6. BPA (I think that we could probably still get a good blocking no 3 TE through free agency. If all of our other draft picks had to be packaged for just 1-5 I'd have no problem)

Ochmed Jones · Apr 18, 2006

In this draft the supply of true vertical WRs does not meet demand. Someone will overdraft a WR and try to plug him into the wrong role. BB has been kown to go that route. When BB took Branch in the second round, people thought he overdrafted Branch, fortunately that was not the case. Later when BB took Bethel in the second round, again people thought Bethel was overdrafted, unfortunately they may be right.

Regardless of the WR crop or lack thereof, my shopping list is as follows:

Major needs
1.) Playmaker in the secondary.
2.) Nastiness on the OL.
3.) Depth at WR and LB.
Minor needs
1.) Backup QB (if Flutie retires)
2.) Backup/Developmental NT (I don't see Wright as this man.)
3.) Devlopmental RB.

shirtsleeve · Apr 19, 2006

Bump.

As far as QB goes, the team wont draft one, imo. We already have a promising young prospect who looked very 2001 TB like in the Miami game. We will take a saavy vet to fill a void in case the hell mouth opens and we lose both of the qb's currently on our roster.

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 20, 2006

Duh Box_O_Rocks' Draft Master Board :eat1:

Defensive Linemen:
1st day - Montavius Stanley, Barry Cofield
2nd day - Johnny Jolly, Jeff Littlejohn
UDFA - Antwan Burton

Inside Linebacker:
1st day - Chris Gocong, Mike Kudla, Chad Greenway
2nd day - Andrew Schable, Adam Roberts, Tim McGarigle, Oliver Hoyte, Tim Dobbins, Kai Parham
UDFA - Shomari Earls, Fredricc Brock

Outside Linebacker:
1st day - Manny Lawson, Darryl Tapp, Bobby Carpenter, Mark Anderson, Elvis Dumervil, Parys Haralson
2nd day - James Wyche, Jeremy Mincey, Jason Hatcher, Ryan Neill, Copeland Bryan, Daniel Federkiel, John Chick, Brandon Guillory, Ryan Lacasse, Brent Hawkins, John Syptak, David Tollefson, Clayton Farrell, Garrett McIntyre, Charlton Keith.
UDFA - Derrick Ming

Cornerback:
1st day - Ashton Youboty, Richard Marshall, Jonathan Joseph, Gerrick McPhearson, David Pittman, Charles Gordon, Rolando Humphrey, Marcus Hudson, Jarrett Bush, Alton "Dee" McCann
2nd day - Josh Lay, John Eubanks, Willie Smith, Antonio Malone, Travis Johnson, Javon Johnson, Kevin Stanley, T.J Rushing, Marcus King, Willie Andrews, Cortland Finnegan, Trestin George, Dennis Mitchell
UDFA - Gabriel Fulbright, Justin Phinisee, Tramon Williams, Kevin Dockery, Ryan Redd, Drew Coleman, Theo Baines, Alex Teems, LaMarcus Hicks, Quincy Butler, James Johnson, Dion Byrum, Aaron Gipson, Blake Saunders, Stephen Cason, Chris Williams, Clint Kent, David Jiles, Etienne Boulay, Cletis Gordon, Michael Ford, Quinton Teal, Kwesi Williams, Allante Harrison, Corey-Khalil Harden, Brad Brachear, Terrance Wright, Francis Brown

Safety: Keith Ellison, Travis Williams, Freddie Keiaho, Kevin Schimmelmann, Brian Iwuh, Dwayne Slay, Jahmile Addae, Dawan Landry, Anthony Smith, Omowale Dada, Donte Whitner, Antoine Bethea

-----

Offensive Guard:
1st day - Charles Spencer, Davin Joseph
2nd day - Rob Sims, Kevin Boothe, Jason Spitz, Will Montgomery
UDFA - Matt Lentz, Adam Stenavich, Jason Palermo, Will Allen

Center: Ryan Cook, Todd Londot, Chris McNeil, Mike Degory, Jasper Harvey

Offensive Tackle:
1st day - Eric Winston, Daryn Colledge, Guy Wimper, Andrew Whitworth
2nd day - Willie Hall, Joe Toledo, Jeromey Clary, Jabari Levey, Brad Butler, Travis Leffew, Richard Collier

Quarterback: Kent Smith, John O'Neil, Jeff Rowe, Trent Edwards, Charlie Whitehurst, Josh Padrick, Quinton Porter, Nick Noce, Chris Bramell, Paul Pinegar, Jeff Mroz

Kicker: Jeff Glas, Stephen Gostkowski, Connor Hughes, Chris McMurtray, Taylor Begley, Adam Moss, Josh Huston, Jaret Johnson

Tight End:
1st day - Joe Klopfenstein, Leonard Pope, Marcedes Lewis, Tony Scheffler
2nd day - Quinn Sypniewsk, Tim Day, Jeff King, Cooper Wallace, David Thomas, Greg Estandia, David Thomas
UDFA - Bob Docherty, Ryan Hamby, Tyler Ecker, Matt Henshaw, David Feliciano, Brando Twito, Zach Alcorn

Wide Receiver: Mike Hass, Brandon Marshall, Maurice Stoval, Jason Avant, Greg Jennings, David Anderson, Jeff Webb, Adam Jennings, Willie Reid, Richie Ross, Maurice Avery, Chris Denney

Runningback: Terrence Whitehead, P.J. Daniel, P.J. Pope, Leon Washington, Taurean Henderson, Damien Rhodes

Fullback: Garret Mills, David Kirtman

dryheat44 · Apr 20, 2006

Very interesting. Do you have any strategy to go with it? What position to look for with which pick, or are all there guys together "value groups"?

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 20, 2006

dryheat44 said:
Very interesting. Do you have any strategy to go with it? What position to look for with which pick, or are all there guys together "value groups"?

1st round dictates most of my tactics, other then consensus top 10 players like Hawk, Davis, or Ngata, I only like Lawson and Winston in the first round, and if Lawson came off early I'd be looking to move down, hopefully picking up a 1st in 2007 and another 2nd.

I'm not that concerned that BB move picks into 2007 as some have suggested, NE has 7 picks already, with enough FA losses to be confident of 2 more compensatory picks. But an extra first next season wouldn't hurt if it kept you from reaching for a player at 21. If push comes to shove and Winston was also gone with no trade offer worth the return value, grab Klopfenstein or Colledge and enjoy the howls of offended fans (and before you ask, I'd spend 21 on a 3rd string TE and a #4 LT before Mangold, but I'm crazy that way

).

I have my shopping list:

OT - someone to push Britt for the swing tackle job.
OC/OG - Reserve/Practice Squad/2007 starter
CB - Nickelback/PR/KR/Practice Squad
RB - Practice Squad/PR/KR
LB - 2-3 DE/OLB for Special Teams and 3-4 development
STs - PR/KR, LB/SS
WR - possession receiver to complement Branch, PR/KR

which adds up to 11 picks give or take a couple. rook has done a breakdown showing no room for 11 draft picks in the 53, but I'm more liberal in my math; 53 + 8 + IR = draft flexibility. BB is currently thinner then normal at LB and already at Training Camp levels for DBs; does this mean he is going for more speed on Special Teams? Or, is there room to draft 2, 3, 4... LBs and get younger there? I think we have a starting front seven in the mix of DL/LB currently on the roster, with this fine crop of LBs, go ahead and use your 11 draft picks to create competition and diversify against risk. The same holds for CB, OL, and KR/PR, why wait to pick through the UDFA players for another Gay or Wright, or stockpile for next year when the Pats are already looking to have a draft hand similar to 2005's.

The one targeted player I have is Mike Hass, I still think he is the best complement to Deion in this draft and I would manuever to take him in the second. I believe Ochmed commented on his 3-cone which helps explain his ability to get open.

flutie2phelan · Apr 20, 2006

Don't think i'd cross swords with such illuminati as have posted above.
Except that for a week i've been carrying around a slip of paper on which i've been sorting out my own shopping list.
I'll confine myself to ways in which i take a different slant.

1st, i don't think that we need help in the secondary. Current roster, overall, is impressive ...
and why spend draft picks to stock another team after cutdown?
Further, the Patriots have shown repeatedly that a merely adequate secondary ... behind a superior front seven ... suffices.

2nd, since i don't know more than a handful of the collegians, the most refined sort i'm willing to attempt
is Day1 / Day2.
Day1 picks should offer a probability of being able to contribute this year or next,
from what can be seen of them on film and confirmed in interviews.
Day2 picks can be development prospects or plain dicerolls.

3rd, while we begin with 4 Day1 picks, our best value accrues if we find someone to trade down with.
5 Day1s without a 1st-rounder ... beats 4 Day1s including a lower-half 1st-rounder.

4th, it is essential to remember that our yield will be limited. We must self-discipline and prioritize.

So, what do we want?
The 4 Day1s should get us:
TE
LB
WR, and
RB ... in any order.

The WR and/or RB should also provide us with either/or/and a KR/PR, "built-in".
If we manage to swap out of the 1st round and get an additional Day1 selection,
take a second RB or WR, who supplies whichever return skill is still lacking.

Day2 primarily allows for favorable trades, either up or out to next year.
With such Day2 picks as we actually use next weekend ... i'd like
first, both an OL
and DL
then another LB
and another RB or WR.

Be sure to grab a K in the 6th round.

Then i'll sleep well Sunday night.

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 20, 2006

flutie2phelan said:
Don't think i'd cross swords with such illuminati as have posted above.
Except that for a week i've been carrying around a slip of paper on which i've been sorting out my own shopping list.
I'll confine myself to ways in which i take a different slant.

1st, i don't think that we need help in the secondary. Current roster, overall, is impressive ...
and why spend draft picks to stock another team after cutdown?
Further, the Patriots have shown repeatedly that a merely adequate secondary ... behind a superior front seven ... suffices.

2nd, since i don't know more than a handful of the collegians, the most refined sort i'm willing to attempt
is Day1 / Day2.
Day1 picks should offer a probability of being able to contribute this year or next,
from what can be seen of them on film and confirmed in interviews.
Day2 picks can be development prospects or plain dicerolls.

3rd, while we begin with 4 Day1 picks, our best value accrues if we find someone to trade down with.
5 Day1s without a 1st-rounder ... beats 4 Day1s including a lower-half 1st-rounder.

4th, it is essential to remember that our yield will be limited. We must self-discipline and prioritize.

So, what do we want?
The 4 Day1s should get us:
TE
LB
WR, and
RB ... in any order.

The WR and/or RB should also provide us with either/or/and a KR/PR, "built-in".
If we manage to swap out of the 1st round and get an additional Day1 selection,
take a second RB or WR, who supplies whichever return skill is still lacking.

Day2 primarily allows for favorable trades, either up or out to next year.
With such Day2 picks as we actually use next weekend ... i'd like
first, both an OL
and DL
then another LB
and another RB or WR.

Be sure to grab a K in the 6th round.

Then i'll sleep well Sunday night.

Illuminati my left FBN!

AzPatsFan · Apr 20, 2006

Why the Panic???

IMHO, we need a linebacker (preferably outside), which I had hoped would come from another team, rather than the draft. As rook has pointed out, we may now need three draft choices to move up to get a linebacker in the first. And we would still likely use another pick later. We now have Colvin, Alexander, Banta-Cain and Claridge as OLB's. Two more could easily make the squad. If there are no transactions before the draft, the one need will drive our entire draft strategy.

As rook further points out, the team is prepared to use the draft picks on this one position because the Management has done such a great job in building depth throughout the rest of the team (except at receiver).[/QUOTE]

I think there is an OVERRATED panic to diagnose a need at WR.

Givens left. Givens was a #2. Caldwell came in.

Caldwell was a disapointment in SD as a #1, for the first two years after being drafted in the second round, and then played great in his third year until injury struck. Then he blew an ACL two years ago and played with it last year, but ACL injuries seldom fully recover in 1 year.

WRs usually take 3 years to produce and Reche Caldwell was right on that schedule prior to getting hurt. I'm not certain that we have not in fact substituted a #1 for a #2 WR, and already upgraded the position! And thats before taking Hass &/or Avant or both, in the third.

Other wise I agree with EVERYTHING else being said.

AzPatsFan · Apr 20, 2006

Right on, Box...

Box_O_Rocks said:
1st round dictates most of my tactics, other then consensus top 10 players like Hawk, Davis, or Ngata, I only like Lawson and Winston in the first round, and if Lawson came off early I'd be looking to move down, hopefully picking up a 1st in 2007 and another 2nd.

I'm not that concerned that BB move picks into 2007 as some have suggested, NE has 7 picks already, with enough FA losses to be confident of 2 more compensatory picks. But an extra first next season wouldn't hurt if it kept you from reaching for a player at 21. If push comes to shove and Winston was also gone with no trade offer worth the return value, grab Klopfenstein or Colledge and enjoy the howls of offended fans (and before you ask, I'd spend 21 on a 3rd string TE and a #4 LT before Mangold, but I'm crazy that way ).

I have my shopping list:

OT - someone to push Britt for the swing tackle job.
OC/OG - Reserve/Practice Squad/2007 starter
CB - Nickelback/PR/KR/Practice Squad
RB - Practice Squad/PR/KR
LB - 2-3 DE/OLB for Special Teams and 3-4 development
STs - PR/KR, LB/SS
WR - possession receiver to complement Branch, PR/KR

which adds up to 11 picks give or take a couple. rook has done a breakdown showing no room for 11 draft picks in the 53, but I'm more liberal in my math; 53 + 8 + IR = draft flexibility. BB is currently thinner then normal at LB and already at Training Camp levels for DBs; does this mean he is going for more speed on Special Teams? Or, is there room to draft 2, 3, 4... LBs and get younger there? I think we have a starting front seven in the mix of DL/LB currently on the roster, with this fine crop of LBs, go ahead and use your 11 draft picks to create competition and diversify against risk. The same holds for CB, OL, and KR/PR, why wait to pick through the UDFA players for another Gay or Wright, or stockpile for next year when the Pats are already looking to have a draft hand similar to 2005's.

The one targeted player I have is Mike Hass, I still think he is the best complement to Deion in this draft and I would manuever to take him in the second. I believe Ochmed commented on his 3-cone which helps explain his ability to get open.

I love your quote.

"...The one targeted player I have is Mike Hass, I still think he is the best complement to Deion in this draft and I would manuever to take him in the second.... "

This is my feelings, precisely. Mike Hass is the kind of WR that will probably play for you for 10-15 years, and he will face competition every year from the latest hotshot, speedball, flyboy, looking to replace him ...and failing.

Everything I saw at the combine, and everything I read of his background and personality, leads me to believe he will be one of those Steve Largent,
Wayne Chrebet, Raymond Berry, and yes Fred Biletnikoff type WRs who can't do a damn thing; except get open, catch the ball, and move the chains. (And win the Fred Biletnikoff Trophy as the best and certainly most prolific WR in Div 1A college.)

You just don't pile up over 4000 yards receiving in college any other way, especially after being an unrecruited walk-on, and then having to earn a scholarship through your college production. The man is driven to succeed.
Smart, with great character and a Team captain. A football player who PRODUCES, but not a Bobby Grier athletic phenomenon. Doesn't that sound like a familiar BB/SP Patriot player to you?

shirtsleeve · Apr 20, 2006

flutie2phelan said:
Don't think i'd cross swords with such illuminati as have posted above.
Except that for a week i've been carrying around a slip of paper on which i've been sorting out my own shopping list.
I'll confine myself to ways in which i take a different slant.

Wow! And I thought I was a suck up! I am hereby humbled in your presence!

1st, i don't think that we need help in the secondary. Current roster, overall, is impressive ...
and why spend draft picks to stock another team after cutdown?

I have to humbly disagree here. True the paper talent for DB's is more than adequate. But these guys have proven themselves far too fragile for my liking. Whether they are being asked to do things that their diminutive bodies cannot withstand, or that there is a problem with strength and conditioning, or these individuals have these frailties, I dont know. Perhaps its a combination. But the reality is that twelve is not a number I want to use to describe the number of different starters we had last year at DB.
Further, the Patriots have shown repeatedly that a merely adequate secondary ... behind a superior front seven ... suffices.

2nd, since i don't know more than a handful of the collegians, the most refined sort i'm willing to attempt
is Day1 / Day2.
Day1 picks should offer a probability of being able to contribute this year or next,
from what can be seen of them on film and confirmed in interviews.
Day2 picks can be development prospects or plain dicerolls.

3rd, while we begin with 4 Day1 picks, our best value accrues if we find someone to trade down with.
5 Day1s without a 1st-rounder ... beats 4 Day1s including a lower-half 1st-rounder.

Agreed.

4th, it is essential to remember that our yield will be limited. We must self-discipline and prioritize.

So, what do we want?
The 4 Day1s should get us:
TE
LB
WR, and
RB ... in any order.

The WR and/or RB should also provide us with either/or/and a KR/PR, "built-in".
If we manage to swap out of the 1st round and get an additional Day1 selection,
take a second RB or WR, who supplies whichever return skill is still lacking.

Here again, I disagree. There seem to be few every down backs of high value within our grasp. At this pos, we should be patient and wait till next year. It promises to be better at RB. There also seems to be a lack of quality WR that fit your requirements to start this year or next. There may be one or two within our grasp who have some potential in the system.

Day2 primarily allows for favorable trades, either up or out to next year.
With such Day2 picks as we actually use next weekend ... i'd like
first, both an OL
and DL
then another LB
and another RB or WR.

Funny your day two is what I'm hoping for on Day 1, with the RB to come late 3 (or early 4) with KR/PR duties. And a couple of DB's sprinkled in.

Id also like to see the kicker in the 6th.

Be sure to grab a K in the 6th round.

Then i'll sleep well Sunday night.

..........

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 20, 2006

AzPatsFan said:
I love your quote.

"...The one targeted player I have is Mike Hass, I still think he is the best complement to Deion in this draft and I would manuever to take him in the second.... "

This is my feelings, precisely. Mike Hass is the kind of WR that will probably play for you for 10-15 years, and he will face competition every year from the latest hotshot, speedball, flyboy, looking to replace him ...and failing.

Everything I saw at the combine, and everything I read of his background and personality, leads me to believe he will be one of those Steve Largent,
Wayne Chrebet, Raymond Berry, and yes Fred Biletnikoff type WRs who can't do a damn thing; except get open, catch the ball, and move the chains. (And win the Fred Biletnikoff Trophy as the best and certainly most prolific WR in Div 1A college.)

You just don't pile up over 4000 yards receiving in college any other way, especially after being an unrecruited walk-on, and then having to earn a scholarship through your college production. The man is driven to succeed.
Smart, with great character and a Team captain. A football player who PRODUCES, but not a Bobby Grier athletic phenomenon. Doesn't that sound like a familiar BB/SP Patriot player to you?

Out of all the hotshot WRs in the All-Star games, he was the one of two who cranked out a 100+ yard game, the other was Brandon Marshall in the Hula Bowl, that is why they are my 1 and 2.

AzPatsFan · Apr 20, 2006

Box? Ochmed???

Box_O_Rocks said:
Out of all the hotshot WRs in the All-Star games, he was the one of two who cranked out a 100+ yard game, the other was Brandon Marshall in the Hula Bowl, that is why they are my 1 and 2.

BOR,

You mentioned in a post that Ochmed had a 3-cone report on Hass. My search didn't find it. Do you recall what it was.

I did not know that Hass had piled up 100+ yards in a postseason All Star game. Which one was it?

Ochmed?

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 20, 2006

AzPatsFan said:
BOR,

You mentioned in a post that Ochmed had a 3-cone report on Hass. My search didn't find it. Do you recall what it was.

I did not know that Hass had piled up 100+ yards in a postseason All Star game. Which one was it?

Ochmed?

NFL.com Proday results...6.52 3-cone.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#orest

East-West Shrine Game (same place Mankins played last year).

http://www.shrinegame.com/pdf/East-West_Shrine_Game_81st_game_stats.pdf

RECEIVING: West Shrine Team-Hass, M 4-107; Day, T 3-11; Carter, J 2-85; Webb, j 2-22; Harris, G 2-13; Watkins, T 1-46; Thomas, D 1-20; Ross, C 1-18; Moore, D 1-6. East Shrine Team-Washington, L 6-26; Colston, M 5-82; Jennings, G 3-66; Williams, B 2-26; Wallace, C 1-66; Fantuz, A 1-11; Gradkowski, B 1-11.

He also caught the go ahead TD that won the game.

Flying Fungi · Apr 21, 2006

bump......

shirtsleeve · Apr 22, 2006

Bump, again.

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