Brady, Mankins, Gostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

[Sean Pa Patriot]

These are the only reasons that are behind the seymour deal... The so called bandwagon people will say that Seymour has done nothing 06 was avg, missed half of 07 and was ok in 08... But he still one of the best, and Im still a little shocked that we wont be seeing Big Sey line up next mon night...


That said, lets look at why this deal had to happen.. You have 4 main people up for contract in the next 2 years.. Tom Brady, needs to get paid like he should , Logan Mankins also, and lets not forget Steven Ghostkowski, he also will be up at the end of the year... Vince Wilfork is key, but some thing tells me that he may not be here either next year.. I would hope the Pats resign him for 5 years, but his tone and the rumors that he was going to get shipped to Oakland first is something to watch over the next year..

I know we are not in the rebuilding mode, and the season is not over just because we lost Seymour, the team has alot of things coming up and just could not do justice to all...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

Tom Brady, needs to get paid like he should , Logan Mankins also, and lets not forget Steven Ghostkowski, he also will be up at the end of the year... Vince Wilfork is key,

First off, Mankins and Gostkowski are certainly important, but, if there's no new CBA, then they're RFAs, and not UFAs, and I don't think anyone's going to cough up a first and third, or even a first, for Gostkowski. Mankins, maybe.

Also, the fact that the Patriots drafted three DLs suggested they were prepping for the possibility of Wilfork and/or Seymour leaving. Let's hope it's "or" and not "and."

 

[Marqui]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

Giving up both Seymour AND Wilfork?
Geezus

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

Giving up both Seymour AND Wilfork?
Geezus

The only reason I say that is Wilfork is not happy, he is coming to work,but not a happy camper from the sound of things.. He also wants prob Hayensworth money which he may not get.. Also lets not forget that maybee using that 2011 pick to move up in the 2010 draft..

 

[DocE]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

An offensive guard is not a priority over a talented DT or DE. Wilfork and Seymour (provided you believe he's an excellent player, which I think is up for some debate) would be prioritized over Mankins.

 

[slash83]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

I don't care how smart bb is, if the pats lose wilfork too they dropped the ball. One I agree with n understand but not both guys. The defense will suffer for years if both guys end up playing for a new team in back to back years. I would of been happy with either or, but if both are lost I wont understand or buy the reasoning behind it.

 

[SladeRider]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

I don't get it, can't they extend these guys without changing their salary cap hit this season?

And even if it changes, wouldn't is most likely be lower then what they get currently because they would be in the 1st year of their deal when it's at it's lowest?

And Seymour wouldn't make a difference anyway as his contract runs out, so when these guys are extended and are on the salary for next season and beyond. Seymour wouldn't be so there won't be any cap hit from Seymour when these guys have their contracts.

I just think it makes little sense in saying that Seymour was traded and it means we can extend these guys now.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

The only reason I say that is Wilfork is not happy, he is coming to work,but not a happy camper from the sound of things.. He also wants prob Hayensworth money which he may not get.. Also lets not forget that maybee using that 2011 pick to move up in the 2010 draft..

That's just it. From what I've read of the Wilfork comments, he doesn't want Haynesworth money and that's why he's irritated that nothing's been done. I like Vince, but lets get real, Haynesworth isn't worth the 14 million a year he's getting..

As for moving up in the 2010 draft, unlikely. Why? Because the Pats already have three 2nd round picks. If anything, I think we'll see the Pats ADD more picks to their stables because they'll want/need as many home grown players as possible going into 2011 because of the free agency rules that will hamstring them in 2010 if they win it all.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

I don't get it, can't they extend these guys without changing their salary cap hit this season?

The short answer is "That depends." With the caliber of players we are talking about in Wilfork and Manikins, you are talking about guys who are at or near the top of their positions in the league. That means they'll want a pay raise of some sort, including some or all of their signing bonus this year. Because of special rules in this being the last year of the Salary Cap, there is a 30% limit on how much a salary can increase from year to year.

And even if it changes, wouldn't is most likely be lower then what they get currently because they would be in the 1st year of their deal when it's at it's lowest?

No. In fact, in the case of Wilfork and Mankins, because they are both underpaid currently, their contract numbers would go up. Remember, when signing an extension, the new signing bonus amortization number gets added in. And, because of the 30% rule, the team would more than likely have to adjust this year's salary up so that the average salary comes out to what the player and team agreed to.

And Seymour wouldn't make a difference anyway as his contract runs out, so when these guys are extended and are on the salary for next season and beyond. Seymour wouldn't be so there won't be any cap hit from Seymour when these guys have their contracts.

If the player signs an extension this year, and that extension includes a signing bonus paid out this year, then that signing bonus amortization goes against this year's cap.

I just think it makes little sense in saying that Seymour was traded and it means we can extend these guys now.

If I might suggest, do a search on the NFL CBA in regards to the uncapped year. You can also go to Patscap.com as well.

Most of your understanding of the Salary Cap and the rules regarding the extensions signed in seasons prior to an uncapped year is based on a lack of information on your part. Once you have that understanding, it will make a lot more sense.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

I don't care how smart bb is, if the pats lose wilfork too they dropped the ball. One I agree with n understand but not both guys. The defense will suffer for years if both guys end up playing for a new team in back to back years. I would of been happy with either or, but if both are lost I wont understand or buy the reasoning behind it.

And what if Vince and his wife decided that if they didn't get a contract extension done by September 1st 2009 that they would test the open market, regardless of how over the top their demands were? How is that BB's fault? Because his hands were tied by the CBA, a lack of funds available under the salary cap and Vince's over-valuation of himself.

The Pats extended Warren. They extended Kaczur. They've been trying to extend Vince for awhile, but we don't know what Vince's contract demands are and whether or not they are reasonable.

My gut tells me that Vince's demands are reasonable and that he's frustrated by the lack of progress on getting a deal done.

The Pats don't have a lot of free money currently. And they just signed Kendall Simmons to a contract (I've heard conflicting reports on the length of the deal). If Simmons signed for the minimum and no signing bonus, then he's only 450K gone. But if he didn't we could be talking about a million or more gone.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

The Pats don't have a lot of free money currently. And they just signed Kendall Simmons to a contract (I've heard conflicting reports on the length of the deal). If Simmons signed for the minimum and no signing bonus, then he's only 450K gone. But if he didn't we could be talking about a million or more gone.

Well, they just saved some money by trading Sey. Maybe that, coupled with some other things will be enough to extend Wilfork. I've never understood the whole 'vince is mad' thing. Even he can see Miquels page, and realize the Pats simply didnt have enough money to extend him.

On the other hand, maybe the savings from Sey is for another move

 

[jaytivey]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

First round 2010 and 2011 - the patriots really want tim tebow. They are gearing up to move aggressively on that front.

 

[lapatsfan]

If the Pats make a permanent switch to a 4-3, I think that reduces the urgency to re-sign Wilfork.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the pats have 3 tags they can use in an uncapped 2010.......wilfork,mankins,ghost....in fact, I believe mankins and ghost will RFA's

there are other factors that hamper the movement of free agents in an uncapped year........playoff teams are limited in the amount of money they can spend and you can bet there will be more than a few teams that will take opportunity of no team salary minimum to aid their bottom line........

 

[BelichickFan]

These are the only reasons that are behind the seymour deal

No, the other reason is to get 5+ (could be 6 or even 10+ if we trade the pick down) player seasons out of the draft choice instead of 1 if they thought Seymour was gone.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

the pats have 3 tags they can use in an uncapped 2010.......wilfork,mankins,ghost....in fact, I believe mankins and ghost will RFA's

there are other factors that hamper the movement of free agents in an uncapped year........playoff teams are limited in the amount of money they can spend and you can bet there will be more than a few teams that will take opportunity of no team salary minimum to aid their bottom line........

Teams have TWO tags if 2010 is uncapped: one transition tag (nearly worthless), and one franchise tag (which can also be used as a transition tag).

Also, teams that make the final eight are not limited in the AMOUNT of money they can spend—they can spend as much money as they want extending their own players—but they are strictly limited in their ability to pursue, and spend money on, unrestricted free agents.

 

[Jimke]

the pats have 3 tags they can use in an uncapped 2010.......wilfork,mankins,ghost....in fact, I believe mankins and ghost will RFA's

there are other factors that hamper the movement of free agents in an uncapped year........playoff teams are limited in the amount of money they can spend and you can bet there will be more than a few teams that will take opportunity of no team salary minimum to aid their bottom line........

As you mentioned in your post, Bob Kraft is waiting to see whether
2010 is uncapped and Mankins and Gostkowski will be RFAs. I do not
agree that the Patriots will use the franchise and transition tags. Kraft
is drawing a line in the sand with regard to player salaries. He wants
the players to get less of the total revenue not more. I would not
be surprised to see Tom Brady heading west next year for a couple
of #1 draft picks.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

Well, they just saved some money by trading Sey. Maybe that, coupled with some other things will be enough to extend Wilfork. I've never understood the whole 'vince is mad' thing. Even he can see Miquels page, and realize the Pats simply didnt have enough money to extend him.

On the other hand, maybe the savings from Sey is for another move

My estimates were that the Pats would need to free up at least 4 million on top of what is allocated to Wilfork now to be able to extend him.. They had 2.7 million and freed up 3.7 million, but the terms and conditions of Simmons contract are unknown. I've heard both a 1 year deal and a 3 year deal.

Its clear to me that the Patriots are not going to carry 4 interior linemen. I fully expect one or both of Connolly and Wendell to be cut. I expect a player who has experience as a 4-3 DE pass rusher to be added. The other spot could go to a QB or it could go to a MLB.

What is also interesting is that the Pats tried to add a RB in Tristan Davis..

 

[eom]

Re: Brady, Mankins, Ghostkowski, and maybee Wilfork

Well, they just saved some money by trading Sey. Maybe that, coupled with some other things will be enough to extend Wilfork. I've never understood the whole 'vince is mad' thing. Even he can see Miquels page, and realize the Pats simply didnt have enough money to extend him.

:

that is really a cop out --- how much have the pats spent so far this offseason?

 

[mgteich]

If an extension is signed THIS year, then these arguments make sense. If we are talking about next year, the team could just have waited for the end of the contract and not re-signed Seymour. The available money would still be used for other players.