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Bill Belichick’s empire has fallen. How will the Patriots pick up the pieces?


reflexblue

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OXBOROUGH, Mass. — The six Super Bowl banners are pinned to the wall of the south end of Gillette Stadium, directly in sightline from the entrance under the replica lighthouse. They intend to demonstrate the majesty of the New England Patriots. They hang there now as vestiges of a bygone season, like brown leaves falling in Massachusetts autumn.
 

n6249c

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Damn paywalls!
 

Hyped

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Didn't read the article, but....ONLY these teams have a shorter Lombardi drought than the Patriots:

Chiefs
Rams
Buccaneers

That is it.....

As for Superbowl droughts:

Chiefs
Niners
Buccaneers
Bengals
Rams
Eagles
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Damn paywalls!

Take everything the naysayers (such as me) write as we ***** about the team and summarize why Bill sucks. Now imagine it written in a very concise, newspapery way that tries to take a balanced view, and you have your WaPo article.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Didn't read the article, but....ONLY these teams have a shorter Lombardi drought than the Patriots:

Chiefs
Rams
Buccaneers

That is it.....

As for Superbowl droughts:

Chiefs
Niners
Buccaneers
Bengals
Rams
Eagles

No one is complaining that the Patriots haven’t won a Super Bowl since 2018. That would be ridiculous. The overarching theme is that the Patriots will not even face the right direction towards contending for a Super Bowl with management continuing to show extraordinary stubbornness and arrogance, in addition to their clueless player evaluations.
 

Hyped

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No one is complaining that the Patriots haven’t won a Super Bowl since 2018. That would be ridiculous. The overarching theme is that the Patriots will not even face the right direction towards contending for a Super Bowl with management continuing to show extraordinary stubbornness and arrogance, in addition to their clueless player evaluations.
IMO, it isn't stubborness/arrogance nor player evaluations. At least, not moreso than other teams.

We just need to hit on some talent in the draft and need some injury free luck. If we weren't shuffling the OL, had Jon/Jack/Marcus Jone all season, still had Gonzalez, Judon, & Bourne....I think we would be 4-4 right about now....
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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IMO, it isn't stubborness/arrogance nor player evaluations. At least, not moreso than other teams.

We just need to hit on some talent in the draft and need some injury free luck. If we weren't shuffling the OL, had Jon/Jack/Marcus Jone all season, still had Gonzalez, Judon, & Bourne....I think we would be 4-4 right about now....

The Patriots would be 1-7 if they faced Aaron Rodgers, so the injury luck thing is a bit lost on me. They also got a bite at the apple against Brian Hoyer.

Fact is their quarterback is healthy (QB injury I think is an actual legit excuse) and they’re -90 point differential, 31st in the NFL. Sure those injuries are affecting them but not even close to the margins between defeat and victory.
 

*ChungFu*

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The National Hate BB Corps has had a George Soros-funded flare to it starting well before this season. The Washington Compost having an article posted on this forum does nothing to dispel that thought.
 

cmasspatsfan

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The Patriots would be 1-7 if they faced Aaron Rodgers, so the injury luck thing is a bit lost on me. They also got a bite at the apple against Brian Hoyer.

Fact is their quarterback is healthy (QB injury I think is an actual legit excuse) and they’re -90 point differential, 31st in the NFL. Sure those injuries are affecting them but not even close to the margins between defeat and victory.
You could always be a Jets fan if you're not happy. I get criticizing Bill and the last couple years, but you go over the top denigrating him and what he's done. The NFL is designed for top teams to drop down and the lower teams to build up, it's called parody, if you can't put up with some down years for your team maybe you should jump from team to team that's doing well.
 

VrabelJr

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No one is complaining that the Patriots haven’t won a Super Bowl since 2018. That would be ridiculous. The overarching theme is that the Patriots will not even face the right direction towards contending for a Super Bowl with management continuing to show extraordinary stubbornness and arrogance, in addition to their clueless player evaluations.
Such as…?
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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The NFL is designed for top teams to drop down and the lower teams to build up, it's called parody,
I think you’ve confused the salary cap with your comical homer take on the 2023 Patriots.
if you can't put up with some down years for your team maybe you should jump from team to team that's doing well.
I’d prefer to root for the Patriots and hope they fire emperor Bill.
 

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Lol, Rodney eloquently states what I've been saying for years. Belichick can't reach these guys. This is the crux of the matter (aside from lack of talent) and why there's only been a handful of coaches in their 70s, none successful.

"You always hear the phrase ‘Patriot Way,’ ” said former safety Rodney Harrison, who played on two Patriots Super Bowl teams in the early 2000s. “ ‘The Patriot Way’ is just a standard. Obviously a lot of these young guys, they haven’t bought into that standard. It’s a standard of consistency, working hard, putting your head down, doing the right things, not being selfish, not getting penalties. It’s almost like a walk of discipline. That was the thing that really made us different than everyone else."

"That’s what I see that’s wrong with the Patriots. They’re not focusing on the little details. It comes from the top, where the coaches have to get that message through to the players, and it matriculates through the locker room. I just don’t see guys buying into what Coach Belichick is selling."
 

1960Pats

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You could always be a Jets fan if you're not happy. I get criticizing Bill and the last couple years, but you go over the top denigrating him and what he's done. The NFL is designed for top teams to drop down and the lower teams to build up, it's called parody, if you can't put up with some down years for your team maybe you should jump from team to team that's doing well.
In spite of the fact that the word you meant to use (parity) is spelled wrong the word you used (parody) actually describes the current NYFL perfectly.
 

n6249c

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Lol, Rodney eloquently states what I've been saying for years. Belichick can't reach these guys. This is the crux of the matter (aside from lack of talent) and why there's only been a handful of coaches in their 70s, none successful.

"You always hear the phrase ‘Patriot Way,’ ” said former safety Rodney Harrison, who played on two Patriots Super Bowl teams in the early 2000s. “ ‘The Patriot Way’ is just a standard. Obviously a lot of these young guys, they haven’t bought into that standard. It’s a standard of consistency, working hard, putting your head down, doing the right things, not being selfish, not getting penalties. It’s almost like a walk of discipline. That was the thing that really made us different than everyone else."

"That’s what I see that’s wrong with the Patriots. They’re not focusing on the little details. It comes from the top, where the coaches have to get that message through to the players, and it matriculates through the locker room. I just don’t see guys buying into what Coach Belichick is selling."
Thing is, during the Patriots Dynasty there was one player who bought into it totally, and set the example for the entire team: TB12.

That was the magic that produced the dynasty, QB and HC, each of them the GOAT in their respective roles, totally dedicated to discipline, consistency, working harder than anybody else, doing all the right things and doing them right, being unselfish, not taking penalties or turnovers. That was the Patriot Way. It worked, everybody else saw it work and bought into it and did the same things and it fed off itself. It made everyone better.

When TB left there was a giant hole and that ethos no longer resonated the way it had. They weren’t winning. The positive reinforcement isn’t there. Guys aren’t buying into the collective standard. They grumble about their coaches. The QB looks outside the building for coaching. The vibe isn’t there.

A big part is also bad injury luck. Bourne bought into it. He was having a good year. And now he’s on the IR. **** happens.
 

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Thing is, during the Patriots Dynasty there was one player who bought into it totally, and set the example for the entire team: TB12.

That was the magic that produced the dynasty, QB and HC, each of them the GOAT in their respective roles, totally dedicated to discipline, consistency, working harder than anybody else, doing all the right things and doing them right, being unselfish, not taking penalties or turnovers. That was the Patriot Way. It worked, everybody else saw it work and bought into it and did the same things and it fed off itself. It made everyone better.

When TB left there was a giant hole and that ethos no longer resonated the way it had. They weren’t winning. The positive reinforcement isn’t there. Guys aren’t buying into the collective standard. They grumble about their coaches. The QB looks outside the building for coaching. The vibe isn’t there.

A big part is also bad injury luck. Bourne bought into it. He was having a good year. And now he’s on the IR. **** happens.
While i agree that is what made the pats so much fun to watch the past 20 years i feel putting it all on Brady is disrespectful to alot of other great players. Willie sitting at the front of the locker room clocking when people checked in, Bruschi being a star LB when he didnt have elite traits, Rodney setting the tone on the field with monster hits, hell even Mankins made sure people knew you crossed a line he might pull a shiv on you. Later years had Hightower, who quieter then Willie had that same intensity, Gilmore bought in and went from a good player to DPOY with Bill. I could keep going but that list is 20 players more then just Brady which is my point.

Who do the current players have? Andrews? Bentley? Slater? None of the leaders on the team strike me as the guy to enforce the coaches message. I feel like Henry and Mac should be that guy but just isnt. There Is not that on field proof that putting in the work leads to on field results. They definitely need a Brain Cox moment that unites the team and sets a tone. All i see is some talented guys going thru the motions collecting paychecks. Which leads to some boring undisciplined football i have not been enjoying that has nothing to do with thier record. I can get behind a bunch of guys trying thier best and not quite being good enough. Its the apperance of not giving a crap that has lead me to turning off 4 games the past two years something i had never done previously.
 

lancerman

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Didn't read the article, but....ONLY these teams have a shorter Lombardi drought than the Patriots:

Chiefs
Rams
Buccaneers

That is it.....

As for Superbowl droughts:

Chiefs
Niners
Buccaneers
Bengals
Rams
Eagles
It's less a Lombardi drought and more of a playoff winning drought. This team went from a minimum of making the conference title game from 2011 to 2018 to never winning a playoff game in 5 seasons. That's noticeable.

-Browns
-Jaguars
-Cowboys
-49'ers
-Giants
-Chiefs
-Eagles
-Rams
-Bills
-Ravens
-Bucaneers
-Saints
-Packers
-Titans
-Texans
-Seahawks

All of those teams have won a playoff game since the last time the Patriots won a playoff game. That's 16 teams. Half the league has won a playoff game in the last 5 season. And it's very probable that some more teams are added to that list this season (and we can pretty much say with certainty the Pats aren't making this years playoffs).

There's a difference between a quibbling over a Super Bowl drought which is the high end achievment that we have been spoiled on and saying that a dynasty that from 2001-2018 only had 4 seasons where they didn't win a playoff game all of a sudden goes through what will be a five year drought on that when half the league is doing what they have been unable to.

This isn't the dynasty Patriots anymore.
Thing is, during the Patriots Dynasty there was one player who bought into it totally, and set the example for the entire team: TB12.

That was the magic that produced the dynasty, QB and HC, each of them the GOAT in their respective roles, totally dedicated to discipline, consistency, working harder than anybody else, doing all the right things and doing them right, being unselfish, not taking penalties or turnovers. That was the Patriot Way. It worked, everybody else saw it work and bought into it and did the same things and it fed off itself. It made everyone better.

When TB left there was a giant hole and that ethos no longer resonated the way it had. They weren’t winning. The positive reinforcement isn’t there. Guys aren’t buying into the collective standard. They grumble about their coaches. The QB looks outside the building for coaching. The vibe isn’t there.

A big part is also bad injury luck. Bourne bought into it. He was having a good year. And now he’s on the IR. **** happens.

The bolded is the long and short of it. It's a lot easier to go to extreme lengths to listen to any leader when everytime you do, you get positive results. In sports if you listen to your coach and it always leads to wins, you start to just trust everything he says. At work if you start crushing it everytime you apply what your boss tells you, you start to just take for granted that he knows what he is doing.

When that doesn't happen, all of a sudden you start to look at the guy giving in orders and think "I did what you said and we aren't winning, why the hell am I going to run a million miles an hour for you and kill myself just because you said to?"

Brady bought into it because he was basically the low man on the depth chart that had to know his roll when he came on and, even when he got the job, could have easily been replaced by Bledsoe when he returned. Then he became a Super Bowl champion and MVP on a defensively driven team that beat the GSOT. So he got that positive result and bought in, and his talent propelled that to even more success and it became a self fulfilling thing. You had the most important guy seeing good outcomes and it locked him down for it and now nobody could really question both Belichick and Tom Brady. Even if you are someone like Revis, you come in from the outside, see all the success they had and say "screw it, if I kill myself for these guys, I have a good shot at being a champion at the end".

Bottomline, results matter and once the results dry up long enough, people lose willingness to buy in.

Same reason none of the Belichick coaches ever really made it. They came onto teams trying to pretend to be Bill, you already had skeptical players, they didn't produce results but acted like they deserved the same level renown and it ends in the teams checking out and becoming a disaster. Bill didn't come on the team being a hardass. He was a pretty personable guy early on who gave positive reinforcement to his players. He still does to an extent. At a point he hit a level where he became beyond reproach and having Brady and a well oiled unit kept that going for awhile. But the machine got old and that doesn't work with the new model that isn't getting all the losses and critcism.
 

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@lancerman, didn't want to quote your wall of text...

Winning a play off game would be nice, but realistically its all about the Lombardi.

We aren't far from the playoffs. We are dead last in the AFC and probably have the 30th ranked offense in the league....but things change overnight in the NFL. I mean we all lived through the 2001 season...that team was 5-5 after week 10 and never lost again until week 4 of the next year.
 

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The National Hate BB Corps has had a George Soros-funded flare to it starting well before this season. The Washington Compost having an article posted on this forum does nothing to dispel that thought.
 

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You believe and buy into something when you see positive results.

Also, these guys are not dumb. They respect and admire the players that bring game on any team. Like Tyreek Hill facing off against Gonzalez. Hill gave mad props to Gonzalez after the game. Hill had 40 yards 0 TDs. Hill did not make excuses or blame anyone else. He talked Gonzalez up. Watch out for this new CB fellas.

They also see and know who the pretenders are. The players that do not belong unless they are riding the bench.
 


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