Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules - true or BS?

[PATRIOT64]

We are talking about a coach who has had about as much experience as a coach in the NFL for decades and to think he actually did not understand what the Comissioner was saying is crazy - For gods sake this guy is a future HOF coach who probably can recite the NFL rules book backwards for heaven's sake - both the old rules book and the new updated one.

He knew exactly that this was wrong to do and tried to find loopholes to save the punishment which didn't work - There was no way in hell this HOF future coach was going to admit he f-cked up and did it on purpose,Not only do I think a suspension would have been added on if he admitted the wrongdoing but his HOF legacy would be put into danger.

IMO if any of you who believe that he was just unaware of what the rules was supposed to be meant then I have some swampland in the Poconos to sell to you

Gotta hand it to him though - Hes very sneaky and clever,and I am still glad the savvy coach is still here,despite the denial.

 

[Pats_AZ]

We are talking about a coach who has had about as much experience as a coach in the NFL for decades and to think he actually did not understand what the Comissioner was saying is crazy - For gods sake this guy is a future HOF coach who probably can recite the NFL rules book backwards for heaven's sake - both the old rules book and the new updated one.

He knew exactly that this was wrong to do and tried to find loopholes to save the punishment which didn't work - There was no way in hell this HOF future coach was going to admit he f-cked up and did it on purpose,Not only do I think a suspension would have been added on if he admitted the wrongdoing but his HOF legacy would be put into danger.

IMO if any of you who believe that he was just unaware of what the rules was supposed to be meant then I have some swampland in the Poconos to sell to you

Gotta hand it to him though - Hes very sneaky and clever,and I am still glad the savvy coach is still here,despite the denial.

Nah...I'm not saying that at all. I agree with you. What i am saying is more towards the whole "Cheater" label and how many people are putting it on us and not realizing that many teams have done many of the same things to gain a competetive advantage.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Nah...I'm not saying that at all. I agree with you. What i am saying is more towards the whole "Cheater" label and how many people are putting it on us and not realizing that many teams have done many of the same things to gain a competetive advantage.

NO TEAM to my knowledge used the CAMERA to get signals before or at least admitted to it - Thats the issue, Not stealing signals which is commonplace in ANY sport you can imagine but the camera was the issue here and thus caused this chaos NOT stealing signals

 

[Pats_AZ]

NO TEAM to my knowledge used the CAMERA to get signals before or at least admitted to it - Thats the issue, Not stealing signals which is commonplace in ANY sport you can imagine but the camera was the issue here and thus caused this chaos NOT stealing signals

Yes, but all I'm saying is that most people are calling BB a cheater because of the "stealing of signs" part of it. thats all.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

I actually think this situation is a culmination of frustration built up over the last couple of years. Take a look at the situation in total and it kinda makes sense.

The Background
Belichick is a coach in the traditional sense...relying on teaching, preparation and intelligence to put his players in the best position to win. He has the dedication and work ethic, but he needs to control information to maximize his chances of winning.

The Environment
The policies of the NFL work exactly counter to Belichick's nature: they want coaches (including assistants) and players to be accessible to the media and they want to have a level playing field on the amount and type of information teams can gather.

The no video policy is especially galling to him. Belichick wants as much information as possible from every game (including games of upcoming opponents) to use as material for preparation. He doesn't have the time or inclination to do film study during the game or at halftime...and he certainly wouldn't trust an underling to make gameplan changes with video he hasn't seen. So the NFL is telling him that he has to have limited information (same as his opponents) for future preparation...even though he is not doing anything sneaky or underhanded to get the information.

As a quick aside, there is more to gather about watching opposing coaches besides "stealing signs". Are they slow to get signals in? Maybe we should go no-huddle. Do they change signals after we show our offensive formation? Maybe we should do a quick shift before the snap. And so on. All perfectly legitimate observations that he can't make during the game and broadcasts won't show him later. Now back to my ramblings...

The Hypocrisy
So Belichick is already frustrated that the league policies are aligned against him. Now he sees other organizations pulling underhanded tactics (Milloy/Branch tampering, players secretly wired for sound, overheated domes, etc.) and the league ignores it or calls it "gamesmanship"...while he gets crap for trying to gather information. Now Belichick is frustrated and his ego makes him ripe for picking a fight with the league. In fact, the memo sent out days before the game may have sent him over the edge.

The Miscalculations
Belichick knew sending out a camera guy would be a violation of a policy he didn't agree with, but he was going to make the league either stop him (and stop the other teams' "gamesmanship" as well) or let him coach the way he wants. That is all fine and dandy except he may 3 miscalculations:

1. NFL security took the camera/tape. I imagine he expected the camera guy to get ejected from the game at worst.
2. Goodell leaked information to the media. This allowed the question of league integrity to become front page news. Belichick has too much respect for the game, the Patriots and Robert Kraft to want that to happen.
3. The punishment involved a first round pick. Draft picks are gold to Belichick. The worst he could have expected as punishment would have been a 3rd (Denver's punishment for salary cap violations). The combination of Goodell's temperment, the environment in sports overall and the media frenzy combined to result in a penalty that has to be killing Belichick right now.

The Bottom Line
This incident was a "perfect storm" of past events, silly policies, big egos, a league's image problem and a lazy, sensationalizing media. Everyone (except the media) lost in this affair. The only positive that can be hoped for is that all of the "gamesmanship" that drove Belichick to a bad place will stop or be punished with equal severity. If not, this whole mess would have been for nothing.

Wicked good stuff, Metaphors. I don't usually quote entire long posts, but I'm making an exception here.

Of all the possible scenarios postulated lately, your version seems the most plausible to me.

BB knew exactly what the 9/6 memo meant to clarify. In his hubris, however, he failed to take its warning seriously. He also failed to anticipate, as would anyone, that woMangina would involve NFL Security.

And here's another possible reason that BB's statement was short and not-so-sweet: had he tried to justify his actions, he might have had to play the "I'm-not-the-only-one-doing-this" card. But he didn't, because, unlike others, BB is not a rat.

 

[captain stone]

Link, fukwad... or STFU.

How dare you, you ungrateful troll.

Go eff youself on your way out.

 

[mosi]

WRONG
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8RLISV80.html

But please, continue. You were saying something about current coaches and players defending BB? Links please.

Oh, and I found this for you too:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/13/a_sorry_state/?page=2
The league's game operations manual states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." Teams are allowed to record games, but the manual also states that "all video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

In addition, Ray Anderson, the league's head of football operations, sent a memo to head coaches and general managers Sept. 6, 2006, that read: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

Pretty easy to misinterpret that. Huh?

With such an obvious memo (if that is the whole memo and not edited), why did he do it? With the new Nikon camera deal (all official cameraman wear bright red jackets), his guy would stick out like a sore thumb.

My feeling is very similar to what was posted by Metaphors. Bill was probably pissed as hell for such a memo, probably written by Casserly specifically for him. Putting his camera guy out there was itching the scratch.

My big complaint is that no one has shown any evidence that the video taping was used to identify defensive plays in a game situation. Hell, most defenses only set themselves after the offense play has been set.

I do think this could come back to hurt the Pats. Defensive players may get mad feeling that the Coach left them out to hang.

 

[ColtsTroll]

Re: Belichick said he had misinterpreted NFL rules-true or bs?

The GREAT LIE perpetuated by the media is that he STOLE signals and CHEATED.

People need to be charged with slander if it turns out Belichick used those tapes for post-game analysis, like he said in his statement.

That's cheating

 

[DarrylS]

Good post by Metaphor, I really believe that BB casually read the memo and his intent was not to steal signals from that game, but to add to his video collection which he studies.

Have heard and read the rule numerous times, it is one of those rules that are specific, but vague.. it could be interpreted by BB that it could not be used for that game which was Bill's intent.

HERE IS THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE, WHY WOULD HE USE MATT ESTRELLA WHO IS WELL KNOWN TO MANGINI, DABOLL AND MANY OF THE JETS PLAYERS TO FILM BLATANTLY ON THE SIDELINE? IF HE WANTED TO STEAL SIGNALS THERE ARE A HUNDRED MORE EFFICIENT WAYS TO DO IT.. HE WAS ADDING TO HIS FILM LIBRARY PURE AND SIMPLE FOR FUTURE USE.

The whole sitz has turned into a witch hunt, BB has been demonized to the point that all kinds of allegations of cheating has showed up all over the web. Everyone is having their idiotic day in the sun, and all are confused with his silence and intent to move on with stonewalling.

The Boston Press has taken it to a new level Felger, Callahan, Tomase and the rest of the crew, know BB, but instead of defending him are calling him arrogant and a lot of crap.. one scribe talked of how this would have offended his now deceased father.

Let it die, take it for what it was and move on the football season enters week #2.. hope another scandal breaks soon so we can all move on.

 

[Metaphors]

good analysis. a few things i disagree with (hypocrisy - he's done just about every one of those things on your list)

I can't think of any examples of where Belichick would even be suspected of player tampering. A.Thomas at the pro bowl might be a case, but even if it was tampering it wouldn't be in the same class as Milloy/Branch. There may be evidence of Belichick "gamesmanship", but not that I can recall. Please don't bring up the playoff field conditions...grass doesn't grow after October.

but i don't think goodell leaked the info, that is the last thing he wanted. It was definitely somebody with the jets, although probably not mangini imo.

The leaks I'm talking about involve the content of the tape, how Goodell felt about what he saw and what were the likely punishments. All of this things presumed guilt before Pats' side was even heard. The Jets would have no access to this information. It was either someone in Goodell's office or someone with access to Goodell's deliberations (the competition committee?). Either way, Goodell is responsible for the information that comes out of his office.

The Jets are responsible for the "setup" of the situation (why not eject the Pats camera guy BEFORE KICKOFF and protect your signals and the integrity of the game...that is all you were concerned about, huh?). They helped the situation down the path it went, but they weren't the only players in this tragedy.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

Both. I think he chose to misinterpret. I have no doubt he knew the intent but I can see legitimate loopholes in the rules that you can choose to walk through if you want to.

EXACTLY ON THE MARK! BB took a calculated risk and got called on it. The problem is that the media doesn't like BB's personality and the Patriots' winning ways, so it CHOSE to convict him as "cheater" in the court of public opinion. Goodell got swept up in the tsunami and levied a harsher than necessary punishment to appease the jackals.

 

[vyrago]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

EXACTLY ON THE MARK! BB took a calculated risk and got called on it. The problem is that the media doesn't like BB's personality and the Patriots' winning ways, so it CHOSE to convict him as "cheater" in the court of public opinion.

And the other thing is that Cheater is so much catchier than Illegal Camera User.

The press is loathe to report complicated political malfeasances because they are not amenable to sound bites, but a sex scandal, now there's something they can get their heads (pun intended) around.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

As far as I can see, BB's "misinterpretation" argument could only be that he "understood" that the rule prohibited taping for use during the game that was underway and not for use in planning for future games.

In order to arrive at that Interpretation, he would have to split the thinnest of hairs with the sharpest of Jesuitical knives. But, as I said elsewhere on this board this week, good lawyers do the same for their clients every day in every courthouse in America, and sometimes succeed.

No. He knew what he was doing. I have been and remain one of his greatest fans and I believe firmly that all of this will eventually be just a footnote in the history of this franchise. But, he was incredibly arrogant to continue doing what he did as blatantly as he was doing it.

However, I'll take an arrogant SOB over an untrustworthy, ungrateful, low-life weasel like Mangini any day. You go, Bill!!!!

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Belichick said he had misinterpreted NFL rules-true or bs?

That's cheating

Small minds get hung up on words instead of the real meanings behind them.

Did Belichick knowingly break a rule? Sure, we have to assume he knew he was at least breaking a reasonable interpretation and intent of the policy.

Did Belichick break a rule and use that to gain a competitive advantage? No evidence to suggest that and plenty of more reasonable explanations to suggest otherwise.

Did Belichick cheat?
If all you care about is that a rule was broken, then he cheated. But then so did Brian Urlaucher wearing a Vitamin Water hat at a press Conference (remember...cheating = breaking rule).

What you can't do (and keep your own integrity) is take the next leap to say that the integrity of any Pats game was impacted by the broken rule.

If I'm taking a test where there is a clear rule about using #2 pencils and I use a mechanical pencil (since that is just how I roll)...Did I break a rule? Clearly. Did I cheat on the test? Don't believe any reasonable person would suggest that.

If I work for Ford and I walk into a public Honda conference wearing a "Ford" jacket with a large video camera (even though cameras aren't allowed for some reason), am I a spy? That one clearly doesn't make any sense.

So if the media headlines only said "Belichick violates league policy", I wouldn't have an issue. The headlines (legitimate news, not opinion) that mention "cheating" and "spying" are what bother me. "Cheating" is a loaded word and there is actually more evidence to suggest cheating (the real meaning/feelings behind the word) did not occur. "Spying" is just stupid since the information was publicly available and there was no attempt at concealing the activities.

So your opinion is that the Pats are cheaters. That is your opinion and given your lack of insight behind it, nobody cares. My opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about...and you've given me plenty of evidence to support that opinion.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Belichick said he had "misinterpreted" NFL rules-true or bs?

And here's another possible reason that BB's statement was short and not-so-sweet: had he tried to justify his actions, he might have had to play the "I'm-not-the-only-one-doing-this" card. But he didn't, because, unlike others, BB is not a rat.

I think another reason is Belichick understands the first rule of holes. When you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you need to do is stop digging.

If the media had noble intentions, I think you would generally get honest and engaging answers out of BB. He knows that any statement that can be taken out of context will become a headline...and the hole gets deeper.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Re: Belichick said he had misinterpreted NFL rules-true or bs?

Small minds get hung up on words instead of the real meanings behind them.

Did Belichick knowingly break a rule? Sure, we have to assume he knew he was at least breaking a reasonable interpretation and intent of the policy.

Did Belichick break a rule and use that to gain a competitive advantage? No evidence to suggest that and plenty of more reasonable explanations to suggest otherwise.

Did Belichick cheat?
If all you care about is that a rule was broken, then he cheated. But then so did Brian Urlaucher wearing a Vitamin Water hat at a press Conference (remember...cheating = breaking rule).

What you can't do (and keep your own integrity) is take the next leap to say that the integrity of any Pats game was impacted by the broken rule.

If I'm taking a test where there is a clear rule about using #2 pencils and I use a mechanical pencil (since that is just how I roll)...Did I break a rule? Clearly. Did I cheat on the test? Don't believe any reasonable person would suggest that.

If I work for Ford and I walk into a public Honda conference wearing a "Ford" jacket with a large video camera (even though cameras aren't allowed for some reason), am I a spy? That one clearly doesn't make any sense.

So if the media headlines only said "Belichick violates league policy", I wouldn't have an issue. The headlines (legitimate news, not opinion) that mention "cheating" and "spying" are what bother me. "Cheating" is a loaded word and there is actually more evidence to suggest cheating (the real meaning/feelings behind the word) did not occur. "Spying" is just stupid since the information was publicly available and there was no attempt at concealing the activities.

So your opinion is that the Pats are cheaters. That is your opinion and given your lack of insight behind it, nobody cares. My opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about...and you've given me plenty of evidence to support that opinion.

Metaphors: that is the most cogent and well explained post or article I have seen on this debacle. Right on point - great analysis.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Belichick said he had misinterpreted NFL rules-true or bs?

Another long-winded justification. :bricks:

Hey remember last year when you were all over here talking about how the Chargers were gonna whoop us in the playoffs? I got that game on tape

troll

 

[AzPatsFan]

As far as I can see, BB's "misinterpretation" argument could only be that he "understood" that the rule prohibited taping for use during the game that was underway and not for use in planning for future games.

In order to arrive at that Interpretation, he would have to split the thinnest of hairs with the sharpest of Jesuitical knives. But, as I said elsewhere on this board this week, good lawyers do the same for their clients every day in every courthouse in America, and sometimes succeed.

No. He knew what he was doing. I have been and remain one of his greatest fans and I believe firmly that all of this will eventually be just a footnote in the history of this franchise. But, he was incredibly arrogant to continue doing what he did as blatantly as he was doing it.

However, I'll take an arrogant SOB over an untrustworthy, ungrateful, low-life weasel like Mangini any day. You go, Bill!!!!

That is exactly my point. Plus I think you underestimate the effect of management review. Belichick put this policy in place a long time ago. At that time, he read the rules carefully, to see what the Operations Policy Manual, and NOT the RULE Book said; saw that it was ambiguous and subject to "Jesuitical knife carving" and "legal review" and said this is how will exploit the loophole. I don't think he even reviewed it at all, prioor to the Jets game. He was planning on playing a game for the AFCE division championship, if there was to be one, in 2007.

Is there anyone here who was manager and instituted a policy, that grew inappropriate, over time? Or just anyone who does not become creature of habit?

For example, Do you select your favorite store and get in the habit of just going there to buy certain minor things. Maybe situations change, and better deals are now elsewhere, if you shopped a new place every time, you might get the "best deal" ? Of course we are all like that. That is the basis of "brand loyalty". Belichick may just not have even looked at the policy he put in place a long time ago, until it rose up and bit him in the butt.

This may have been just such a case. But it doesn't natter. "It is what it is." Kraft an BB are handling this masterfully; removing any fresh meat that a Media Feeding Frenzy needs...

 

[juxtapoz15]

The one thing that is really starting to get to me about this whole mess is just how uninformed people are due to the media. I talked to fans of several teams this week. All of them believe that this camera was linked live to a coach's booth and was used to call plays in reaction to a defensive play call on the fly. To me this is absurd considering the complexity of football.

First off the camera had no live feed. Goodell admitted this in his press release. This immediately gives credence to BB's interpretation of the rule since it wasn't used to affect the outcome of said game. The argument I received to that remark was that they could use it for the second half of play calling. I've been around video and video editing most of my life and believe me when I say this is no easy exercise. If someone is just recording defensive signals by themselves they would then need to be synchronized with the game tape in order to establish a complete picture of a play. If I had to guess this would take on average about 10 hours minimum since you would have to go through both tapes several times and bookmark each play. Not something that could be done during a 15 minute half time. And if a team does not change their signals during the half they are stupid to begin with since the use of still photography and lip readers is an allowable practice.

Secondly defenses line up mostly in response to an offenses' formation. And an offense receives its plays via radio which is shut off after the play is called. Even if a coach did want to make an adjustment after seeing a defensive play how could they do it? ESP?

Third, do you seriously think that any current coaches or players would come and defend the Patriots? That would immedialtely put their organization on the NFL's most watched list and would put their integrity into question. For crying out loud there are pictures of the Jets doing the exact same thing towards our sidelines. Of course this is not provable since that tape was not siezed during the game. And obviously you will never see this happen again since every other team has ceased these operations now. You could possibly find proof via old game film that other teams had video personnel on their sidelines, but without having the smoking gun that is the actual game tape the media would not allow it credence since it would undermine their belief that the Patriots are the only team that do it.

Of course every time I throw these arguments back at someone they scream really loud "Cheaters, Cheaters, Cheaters!" and cover their ears.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Re: Belichick said he had misinterpreted NFL rules-true or bs?

Another long-winded justification. :bricks:

Another jealous fanatic that can't accept logic.