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Being a new Patriots fan, but long time football fan, I have a question for long time Patriot fans

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SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
So, I use to be a Falcons fans, yes laugh all you want I laugh at myself too! Every time I watched the Patriots play I saw an aggressive team. It seemed that offensively they were always going for the kill shot, at least that is how I remember it.

Was I wrong? If I am right, then WTH has happened to that team? Last night was the second time I got to watch the Patriots play because I live in the ATL and I was really shocked at the conservative play calling. It was like watching a low level college team play, run, run, short pass. I think there was 2 times that Mac threw the ball on 1st down.
 

patsinthesnow

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The conservative philosophy on offense started in 2019 once the pats were lacked the receiving weapons to play offense at an average level with Tom Brady. These 4th down punts aren't new. Bill took the ball out of the GOAT's hands in his final game with the pats:


Now in OT on the Cowboys side of the field (four down territory for the vast majority of teams) they called one pass play. The numbers show they are the most conservative team in the NFL on 4th down:

6F739425-9E6E-4791-8F5A-FDA907A9DB32.jpeg
 
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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
So, I use to be a Falcons fans, yes laugh all you want I laugh at myself too! Every time I watched the Patriots play I saw an aggressive team. It seemed that offensively they were always going for the kill shot, at least that is how I remember it.

Was I wrong? If I am right, then WTH has happened to that team? Last night was the second time I got to watch the Patriots play because I live in the ATL and I was really shocked at the conservative play calling. It was like watching a low level college team play, run, run, short pass. I think there was 2 times that Mac threw the ball on 1st down.
Patriots wear defenses down by taking advantage of space on the field. That's been the offense here since Weis instituted it in 2000. It's a Ron Erhardt type offense, but Josh McDaniels has added his own wrinkles to it.

When I watched the 2016 Super Bowl against Atlanta I kept up my hopes even after going down 28-3 because of things that happened in the first half. The Patriots had several long drives and they had a time of possession advantage. They were chipping away. If you remember, Brady threw a pick 6 deep in the Atlanta red zone and Legarette Blount also fumbled. But the impact on Atlanta's D, especially in a Super Bowl when people expend energy on stuff outside the field & with long half times, they were setting the Falcons up. But that game got away from the Patriots. The point is, the Patriots always cut teams up in pieces and they went for the kill shot late after controlling the ball.

This Patriots offense is not that. We don't have the talent at WR. We don't have Brady. We don't control the ball. The one part of the game that we did, when we ran the ball down the Cowboy's throats, we followed that up with some big throws. That is classic Patriots offense. But usually, the Patriots try to cotnrol the ball and wear your defense down.

The only time they didn't do this was between 2010-2014 when they threw, threw, threw and went for the kill.
 

MahomestoKelce

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Is it possible they are trying to ensure Mac isn't the GOAT (In a bad way)? In otherwords, if we go for it now and miss, Mac gets blamed. But if we punt and the opponent scores, we as coaches get heat. Just like if we kick the fg and miss, Mac gets no blame because the fg kicker missed.

Maybe they are overprotective Mac?

I'm just guessing. I don't know.

In a way, I think having studs at every position at Bama didn't help his transition to the NFL. In college you can recruit the best line, rb, and receivers. Not so in the NFL. Parity is too close in this league. The NFL is still superior though.

You are more likely to see the Lions demolish TB four out of ten times than you are seeing Alabama get more than one FG against the Jets.
 
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jah

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The only time they didn't do this was between 2010-2014 when they threw, threw, threw and went for the kill.
I'd widen this range to 2007-2017, with the off years in that span being more about personnel than philosophy. Probably would have gone on longer if we had better skill position players after 2017.

People point to 2019 as the start of the conservative Pats offense, but I'd say it was a year before. We just don't call it conservative because it won us a ring in 2018.
 

Tunescribe

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So, I use to be a Falcons fans, yes laugh all you want I laugh at myself too! Every time I watched the Patriots play I saw an aggressive team. It seemed that offensively they were always going for the kill shot, at least that is how I remember it.

Was I wrong? If I am right, then WTH has happened to that team? Last night was the second time I got to watch the Patriots play because I live in the ATL and I was really shocked at the conservative play calling. It was like watching a low level college team play, run, run, short pass. I think there was 2 times that Mac threw the ball on 1st down.

The Patriots scheme and game-plan according to their personnel, they don't force players into a predetermined approach or philosophy. Right now they have a rookie QB playing behind a subpar offensive line with average-to-good receivers and backs who've been together all of six games. The offensive line's poor showing thus far is the core issue.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
So, I use to be a Falcons fans, yes laugh all you want I laugh at myself too! Every time I watched the Patriots play I saw an aggressive team. It seemed that offensively they were always going for the kill shot, at least that is how I remember it.

Was I wrong? If I am right, then WTH has happened to that team? Last night was the second time I got to watch the Patriots play because I live in the ATL and I was really shocked at the conservative play calling. It was like watching a low level college team play, run, run, short pass. I think there was 2 times that Mac threw the ball on 1st down.

Imagine a 10 year old calling the plays. So always run on 1st down, etc. Spread shotgun means 95% pass. NKeal Harry in means run.

Brady covered for the oc for years and made the offense look good.... If you remember the 2010 Denver Broncos or 2011 St Louis Rams, we have the same oc now who was behind those league-worst offenses.


Pats lost this game because the offense only ran 50 total plays, went 3 and out about 5 straight possessions, which wiped out all the defense's energy who had only given up 10 points to the Cowboys by halftime.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I'd widen this range to 2007-2017, with the off years in that span being more about personnel than philosophy. Probably would have gone on longer if we had better skill position players after 2017.

People point to 2019 as the start of the conservative Pats offense, but I'd say it was a year before. We just don't call it conservative because it won us a ring in 2018.
But I think this is a confusion between lack of personnel versus a different philosophy. It's the same philosophy but with better personnel prior to 2018. Gronk was hurt in 2018 and all I remember is Edelman being practically the only target out there. I even forget who else we had. Dorsett? Hogan? The Patriots were incredibly limited. I don't think the philosophy was any different to what it was in say 2016.

Only Edelman and Brady could have made 2018 work. No other QB in the NFL, no other WR in the NFL could have done that.
 

MahomestoKelce

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Imagine a 10 year old calling the plays. So always run on 1st down, etc. Spread shotgun means 95% pass. NKeal Harry in means run.

Brady covered for the oc for years and made the offense look good....

Pats lost this game because the offense only ran 50 total plays, went 3 and out about 5 straight possessions, which wiped out the defense's energy who had only given up 10 points to the Cowboys by halftime.
Even without the Colts thing, I'd be shocked if McDaniels got another HC gig. The rest of the league has likely caught on that the reason for his success is now in Tampa.

There's other OC's who have been inventive and creative. They didn't need the best QB of all time to do it.
 

MahomestoKelce

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I'm just thinking as a Chiefs fan what that would do to me mentally. My team blows a 28-3 lead with like 25 minutes left in a SB. I think I'd be in a daze for months. I'd rather get beat 70-0 in a SB than go through that.
 

borg

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This season, it starts and ends with the play of the OL, perhaps the most porous in the league.
The fact that we have a 72% passer despite the OL ineptitude gives me future hope.

Yesterday, McDaniels opened up the play book with some sweet timing routes.....until Mac was bulldozed.....then Josh immediately took the offense into hibernation mode for the next 2.75 quarters

Wish the team would pass down field (not screens) on first down most every time.
An incompletion resulting in 2nd and 10 is not much more debilitating than 2nd and 8 which this offense seems to find itself in too often with its runcentric conservatism.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
This season, it starts and ends with the play of the OL, perhaps the most porous in the league.
The fact that we have a 72% passer despite the OL ineptitude gives me future hope.

Yesterday, McDaniels opened up the play book with some sweet timing routes.....until Mac was bulldozed.....then Josh immediately took the offense into hibernation mode for the next 2.75 quarters

Wish the team would pass on first down most every time.
An incompletion resulting in 2nd and 10 is not much more debilitating than 2nd and 8 which this offense seems to find itself in too often with its runcentric conservatism.

Mac is the real deal. Agree.

But is the OLine not under the purview of the oc. 6 weeks and OLine still not addressed. We have an oc who never learned OLine bc Scar handled everything. This OLine looks like the Rams'11 and Broncos'10 crappy OLines.
 

SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
Is it possible they are trying to ensure Mac isn't the GOAT (In a bad way)? In otherwords, if we go for it now and miss, Mac gets blamed. But if we punt and the opponent scores, we as coaches get heat. Just like if we kick the fg and miss, Mac gets no blame because the fg kicker missed.

Maybe they are overprotective Mac?

I'm just guessing. I don't know.

In a way, I think having studs at every position at Bama didn't help his transition to the NFL. In college you can recruit the best line, rb, and receivers. Not so in the NFL. Parity is too close in this league. The NFL is still superior though.

You are more likely to see the Lions demolish TB four out of ten times than you are seeing Alabama get more than one FG against the Jets.
If they think they have to protect their QB, they are going to lose and that might be why they are losing!

I would bet the farm if you asked Mac, would you rather be given the chance the pick up the 4th or punt it away, he would answer 100% of time the a chance knowing if he doesn't make it he gets the blame.

It is just nonsense to think Mac can't handle the blame! He handled a lot of it during his early years at Bama and is a really tough kid, they need to remove the kit glove and let the kid play!
 

Tunescribe

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Imagine a 10 year old calling the plays. So always run on 1st down, etc. Spread shotgun means 95% pass. NKeal Harry in means run.

Brady covered for the oc for years and made the offense look good....

Stop with this stuff. Years ago we had a member here named NEM (New England Mike) who, like you, was irrationally obsessive in dissing the offensive coordinator (then Charlie Weis). NEM ultimately got banned. He tried to start his own Patriots fan website which failed; rumor has it he died after spending time in a mental hospital. You don't want to meet the same fate.
 

Tottie

In the Starting Line-Up
I'm just thinking as a Chiefs fan what that would do to me mentally. My team blows a 28-3 lead with like 25 minutes left in a SB. I think I'd be in a daze for months. I'd rather get beat 70-0 in a SB than go through that.
It's a franchise killer. Such a beautiful combinations of numbers. 28 - 3
 

MAC10

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Imagine a 10 year old calling the plays. So always run on 1st down, etc. Spread shotgun means 95% pass. NKeal Harry in means run.

Brady covered for the oc for years and made the offense look good.... If you remember the 2010 Denver Broncos or 2011 St Louis Rams, we have the same oc now who was behind those league-worst offenses.


Pats lost this game because the offense only ran 50 total plays, went 3 and out about 5 straight possessions, which wiped out all the defense's energy who had only given up 10 points to the Cowboys by halftime.

Brady had the ability to disregard McD because he was the GOAT. However, Jones isn't at the level of an elite QB and has to basically do as he's told. In the past, Brady could just say to Josh "shove it."
 
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jah

Degeneracy Expert
PatsFans.com Supporter
But I think this is a confusion between lack of personnel versus a different philosophy. It's the same philosophy but with better personnel prior to 2018. Gronk was hurt in 2018 and all I remember is Edelman being practically the only target out there. I even forget who else we had. Dorsett? Hogan? The Patriots were incredibly limited. I don't think the philosophy was any different to what it was in say 2016.

Only Edelman and Brady could have made 2018 work. No other QB in the NFL, no other WR in the NFL could have done that.
Sure, I don't think we're really saying anything different.
 

SouthernPatriot

Practice Squad Player
It's a franchise killer. Such a beautiful combinations of numbers. 28 - 3
It was a nightmare and the reason that after being raised a Falcon fan and suffering through season after season after season of let downs, I gave up!
My first memory of a playoff game with the Falcons was in 1980 against the Cowboys when once again the Falcons gave up a huge lead and lost the game. I was at the game with my Daddy and brothers, I was crying so hard my Daddy had to carry me to the car. As we were going back to game, this horrible Cowboy fan said to Daddy, better toughen up your baby girl and laughed, my big brother tried to punched him in the nose but my Dad stopped him!
 

MahomestoKelce

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
If they think they have to protect their QB, they are going to lose and that might be why they are losing!

I would bet the farm if you asked Mac, would you rather be given the chance the pick up the 4th or punt it away, he would answer 100% of time the a chance knowing if he doesn't make it he gets the blame.

It is just nonsense to think Mac can't handle the blame! He handled a lot of it during his early years at Bama and is a really tough kid, they need to remove the kit glove and let the kid play!
I think Mac can handle the blame. No doubt.

It's up to Bill & the OC to start taking risks. Let him fail. Let him succeed. He needs to experience all of it.
 

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