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Any chance we end up with Butler still?

2021 Patriots Season:
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Oct 24th

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maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
None of us really know but I'm personally under the impression that the hand shake deal is "here is our first round pick, if you can get something done financially with Butler we can trade him to you. If not, keep the pick and we will keep Butler under the tender"

I think he is coming back, no way the Saints have anywhere close to the money left that they seem to be asking for. Would have happened already IMO if that was the case.

It's true that the Saints only have about $6.5M in cap space. It's difficult to see how a contract for Butler would be structured around keeping his 2017 cap hit absurdly low while still giving him enough guaranteed money to be acceptable.

However, there may be other teams out there in need of a high-end CB who have the cap space and draft picks to get something done. Just because the only team the media is talking about is the Saints doesn't mean that other contenders don't exist.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
there is at least a plausible possibility we have Butler for one year on a song.. it is at least still possible. And it will be a contract year for him if it happened.

I really don't think it's all that plausible that Butler would be willing to sign up for $3.9M that's not guaranteed.
 

QuantumMechanic

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I really don't think it's all that plausible that Butler would be willing to sign up for $3.9M that's not guaranteed.
Well, after 21 April he has no choice. And after 15 June it'll only be around $700K that's not guaranteed.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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Honestly I'm in the minority here but I really think if the Saints offer him something reasonable the Pats may match it

It has become public knowledge that the Patriots were essentially doing a Butler-Cooks swap with the Saints getting Butler. The Patriots are not going to screw over the Saints. Beyond that, it sounds like the Saints may be running into the same issue as the Patriots of requiring Butler to lower his asking price because he is an RFA. If they do get the deal they won't from him, it will probably still be more than what the Patriots wanted to pay, since the Patriots just spent all that money on Gilmore and the Saints are desperate for a defensive upgrade. And even if it were a deal the Patriots like, that would be highly unethical and a total d1ck move. The Patriots may be opportunists in many ways, but they won't cross that line.
 

sambam94

In the Starting Line-Up
It has become public knowledge that the Patriots were essentially doing a Butler-Cooks swap with the Saints getting Butler. The Patriots are not going to screw over the Saints. Beyond that, it sounds like the Saints may be running into the same issue as the Patriots of requiring Butler to lower his asking price because he is an RFA. If they do get the deal they won't from him, it will probably still be more than what the Patriots wanted to pay, since the Patriots just spent all that money on Gilmore and the Saints are desperate for a defensive upgrade. And even if it were a deal the Patriots like, that would be highly unethical and a total d1ck move. The Patriots may be opportunists in many ways, but they won't cross that line.
no confirmed reports that it was a cooks-butler trade..pure speculation
 

patsfan-1982

In the Starting Line-Up
if the saints offer 10 million or less he may stay and play out his contract but i got the saints giving him 5 years at 12 million per and sending the pats a 2nd round pick
 

NashuaPats

In the Starting Line-Up
Yesterday, I assumed a deal had already been worked out with the Saints. I thought it would happen yesterday. The longer this takes, the more likely I think Butler stays. I certainly hope he does.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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maybe..or might be a case reported once and then everyone ran with it. Do we even know how it originated?

No. I think it's true but wouldn't bet the farm on it. There are plenty of piggy-back stories that stem from speculation...I thought I heard, though, from some legit sources close to the team, like Mike Reiss, that the Patriots are indeed looking to trade Butler, and that the Saints and Patriots had heavy discussions about a Butler for Cooks swap, along with some draft picks. I know it was reported immediately after the Cooks deal that Butler was still a likely trade target, and he visited New Orleans later in the week. I think there is enough evidence at this point to support the idea New England and New Orleans are hoping to make the trade happen.
 

supafly

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No. I think it's true but wouldn't bet the farm on it. There are plenty of piggy-back stories that stem from speculation...I thought I heard, though, from some legit sources close to the team, like Mike Reiss, that the Patriots are indeed looking to trade Butler, and that the Saints and Patriots had heavy discussions about a Butler for Cooks swap, along with some draft picks. I know it was reported immediately after the Cooks deal that Butler was still a likely trade target, and he visited New Orleans later in the week. I think there is enough evidence at this point to support the idea New England and New Orleans are hoping to make the trade happen.
Also, Sean Payton talked about how getting rid of Cooks was to fill a need on defense. There's definitely plenty of smoke. We'll have to see what happens. Personally, I agree with you.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Well, after 21 April he has no choice. And after 15 June it'll only be around $700K that's not guaranteed.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this, but AFAIK, the only thing off the table after April 21st is the ability for other teams to submit a formal RFA offer sheet for him, and that informal sign-and-trade deals are still alive.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It has become public knowledge that the Patriots were essentially doing a Butler-Cooks swap with the Saints getting Butler. The Patriots are not going to screw over the Saints. Beyond that, it sounds like the Saints may be running into the same issue as the Patriots of requiring Butler to lower his asking price because he is an RFA. If they do get the deal they won't from him, it will probably still be more than what the Patriots wanted to pay, since the Patriots just spent all that money on Gilmore and the Saints are desperate for a defensive upgrade. And even if it were a deal the Patriots like, that would be highly unethical and a total d1ck move. The Patriots may be opportunists in many ways, but they won't cross that line.

Until I hear BB and/or Sean Payton actually say it, it's all just media ******** to me.
 

QuantumMechanic

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this, but AFAIK, the only thing off the table after April 21st is the ability for other teams to submit a formal RFA offer sheet for him, and that informal sign-and-trade deals are still alive.

Ah. I misunderstood you. Yes, you are correct.
 

borg

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if the saints offer 10 million or less he may stay and play out his contract but i got the saints giving him 5 years at 12 million per and sending the pats a 2nd round pick
I'm guessing either 4 years $37 mill [$4 + 3($11)]....or
5 years $48 [$4 + 4($11)}...I hope Payton holds firm on the $3.9 mill number this year.
Compare this to the possible offer NE presented Butler before 2016 which I assume looked something like $1 + $4 +$10 + $10 = $25 mill / 4 years = $6.25 mill/yr.
No chance BB would have relinquished the '16 and '17 controlled salaries of $1 + $4.
In this scenario, Butler will have shot his way out of NE for an extra mill in '18 and '19 and likely earn less in '20 and '21 than he could have if his hypothetical NE contract was over after '19 and he hit free agency in 3 years.
PS...whatever $$$ Butler signs for, mediots will compare the new deal verses the $6 or $7 mill NE supposedly offered......which ignores NE's attempt to likely compensate Butler $10 mill/yr in his FA years.
Dipshit Maz has been pounding the table all week on how the Pats low-balled Butler offering only $6 or $7 mill / yr.........lazy dishonest media
 
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Ice_Ice_Brady

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Until I hear BB and/or Sean Payton actually say it, it's all just media ******** to me.

Bringing Butler in for a meeting, negotiating with him, saying that the Cooks trade was to improve on defense, and the defensive player they are targeting is from the same team they just traded Cooks to. And on top of that, Payton did just have a press conference where he praised Butler. Add that to numerous reports that this has been the case for weeks, and all actions by the Patriots, the Saints, and Butler, confirming it.

What exactly needs to be said for you realize the glaring, obvious truth right in front of you?
 
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