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And Surely We Need To Be Better Than 6th In Points Scored To Be Competitive

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mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
I agree that we need to improve the offense.

1) We need to reduce penalties.

2) We need to figure out how to win even one game when the opposition scores 25 (even though the defense was near the best in not allowing points). When the opponents did score 25 points, we were perfect in regular season (0 out of 8).
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Isn't this similar to the other thread you made.

Defense scored a ton of points and also gave the offense good field position. And beating the crap out of the worst teams in the league and running up the score, skews all the Pats stats. I think the offense averaged 17 points a game taking out beatdowns of barely-NFL-caliber league-worst teams.

1-4 to implode on the year isn't good.
 
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TheRainMaker

Scored 4 touchdowns in one game
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
This Offense is dead to rights when they can’t run. The Bills game was over at kickoff and looked like what the 2007 Pats were doing to teams.

They only passed their way to one victory when they couldn’t run and that was against the Titans.

They are not built for shootouts. Nobody on the O is going to make a D coordinator sweat. Name one guy who commands extra attention? That’s a rhetorical question.

They need to find a quick slot annoying chain mover and an outside guy.
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member

"Surely We Need To Be Better Than 6th In Points Scored To Be Competitive"


I'm confused.

Sixth best out of 32 teams is not good enough? Anything less than top five is unacceptable?

The Patriots scored 462 points. In their last four Super Bowl appearances they scored 436, 458, 441 and 468.


I'll be the first to say that the offense is in dire need of improvement. It just seems that the statistic and ranking doesn't appear to make a very good supporting case at all. There are other metrics that would make a much better supporting argument.


In terms of penalties, here is where the Patriots ranked:
- 9th in penalties per game (5.6)
- 15th in penalty yards per game (49.3)
- 20th in opponent penalties per game (5.7) [Not drawing enough penalties]
- 20th in opponent penalty yards per game (48.8)
- That last stat may not be very telling though; the worst teams in that category were the Bucs, Rams and Packers.
- Similarly the 2nd stat doesn't appear to have a lot of correlation; the top ten teams are a mix of good (Bengals, Rams, Packers, Colts) and bad (Giants, Denver, Washington, Atlanta, Seattle) teams.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter

"Surely We Need To Be Better Than 6th In Points Scored To Be Competitive"


I'm confused.

Sixth best out of 32 teams is not good enough? Anything less than top five is unacceptable?

The Patriots scored 462 points. In their last four Super Bowl appearances they scored 436, 458, 441 and 468.


I'll be the first to say that the offense is in dire need of improvement. It just seems that the statistic and ranking doesn't appear to make a very good supporting case at all. There are other metrics that would make a much better supporting argument.


In terms of penalties, here is where the Patriots ranked:
- 9th in penalties per game (5.6)
- 15th in penalty yards per game (49.3)
- 20th in opponent penalties per game (5.7) [Not drawing enough penalties]
- 20th in opponent penalty yards per game (48.8)
- That last stat may not be very telling though; the worst teams in that category were the Bucs, Rams and Packers.
- Similarly the 2nd stat doesn't appear to have a lot of correlation; the top ten teams are a mix of good (Bengals, Rams, Packers, Colts) and bad (Giants, Denver, Washington, Atlanta, Seattle) teams.

I don't know that the following is what mgteich is referring to, but both points scored and scoring differential are wildly skewed.

54-13 in one of the games against the high school team known as the Jets.
50-10 against the middle school team known as the Jaguars
45-7 against a depleted Browns team that was still dealing with the aftermath of the OBJ drama.

That's 149-30 over just 3 games. If you take those away, the team's numbers end up as 313-273. Hell, if you take away the second Jets game and the game against the completely depleted Titans, the Patriots end up being outscored. Now, those games I just noted do count in the standings, the scores really happened, and other teams also have outliers skewing their numbers, but that's not really the issue moving forward. The issue is repeatability of such scoring, and such a differential, for the Patriots gong forward. The issue is also the ability to be score more points more consistently, rather than having scoring explosions once in a while.
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member
I don't know that the following is what mgteich is referring to, but both points scored and scoring differential are wildly skewed.

54-13 in one of the games against the high school team known as the Jets.
50-10 against the middle school team known as the Jaguars
45-7 against a depleted Browns team that was still dealing with the aftermath of the OBJ drama.

That's 149-30 over just 3 games. If you take those away, the team's numbers end up as 313-273. Hell, if you take away the second Jets game and the game against the completely depleted Titans, the Patriots end up being outscored. Now, those games I just noted do count in the standings, the scores really happened, and other teams also have outliers skewing their numbers, but that's not really the issue moving forward. The issue is repeatability of such scoring, and such a differential, for the Patriots gong forward. The issue is also the ability to be score more points more consistently, rather than having scoring explosions once in a while.
You took the words right out of my mouth (or is it fingers, since I'm typing?) - specifically the bolded portion.

I meant to make a comment about consistency. Thanks for mentioning that.

Lots of room for improvement - in all three phases of the game. More than can happen in one offseason, unfortunately.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
1-4 record to implode for the year. Didn't beat anyone good in Dec/Jan for 2 years (0-7).
No sugar coating it.
 

TheRazorsEdge

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Being 6th in scoring is alot of 'smoke and mirrors' you hung right around 50 3x vs. teams who literally handed the ball to you , multiple times. Jets , Jags and a severely depleted browns team.(covid). Also 36 vs a severely depleted Titans teams...That alone will mess with the numbers a bit.

Also , in a few games that we lost...where our offense was literally stuck in mud most of game...we 'got back' into games when the opposing team took the foot off the gas and allowed you to make completions/drive in order to kill clock. I recall a few of those games when the opposing D got soft at the end and telling myself people would be getting excited about the offense 'almost' stealing the game when the reality is - the opposing defense just stopped clamping down.

This doesn't mean I think Mac stinks or that we are doomed.. just being realistic. We can score at will vs. bad teams (this is actually good, it means we aren't a 'bad team'), we can mix up with middle of the road teams but against playoff teams (with the exception of the Dallas Game and busted coverage..) it's not so hot.

I realize we have been spoiled by goat'd offenses where we could drop 30+ by half time in any given game...but I would like to see them score more consistently and not in these 'spurts' vs bad teams.

We have the proof infront of us...we saw the last month. We need to keep building/progressing the offense.

Note: also the defense did score a few touchdowns (2nd in the league in INT touchdowns) and we're also 2nd in the league in interceptions in general. Adds more to the 'snoke and a mirror's effect.
 

MrBigglesWorth

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
This Offense is dead to rights when they can’t run. The Bills game was over at kickoff and looked like what the 2007 Pats were doing to teams.

They only passed their way to one victory when they couldn’t run and that was against the Titans.

They are not built for shootouts. Nobody on the O is going to make a D coordinator sweat. Name one guy who commands extra attention? That’s a rhetorical question.

They need to find a quick slot annoying chain mover and an outside guy.
Mac needs to take all his wrs tes and rbs and off season in Montana with a month of passing camps
 

kennyb

In the Starting Line-Up
OP is obviously being sarcastic.

Ok, you're right mgteich, great team this year. Especially down the stretch and had a great playoff run. You win. Great point. Everyone is saying they were humiliated in the playoffs, thanks for setting them straight.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I don't know that the following is what mgteich is referring to, but both points scored and scoring differential are wildly skewed.

54-13 in one of the games against the high school team known as the Jets.
50-10 against the middle school team known as the Jaguars
45-7 against a depleted Browns team that was still dealing with the aftermath of the OBJ drama.

That's 149-30 over just 3 games. If you take those away, the team's numbers end up as 313-273. Hell, if you take away the second Jets game and the game against the completely depleted Titans, the Patriots end up being outscored. Now, those games I just noted do count in the standings, the scores really happened, and other teams also have outliers skewing their numbers, but that's not really the issue moving forward. The issue is repeatability of such scoring, and such a differential, for the Patriots gong forward. The issue is also the ability to be score more points more consistently, rather than having scoring explosions once in a while.
If you do that for the Pats then you have to go through every team and do the same exercise and then see where they stack up, other teams played some of those games too. They also played some of the weak teams in years past when looking at past numbers.
 

oldrover

"You're gonna have to serve somebody..."
PatsFans.com Supporter

Surely We Need To Be Better Than 6th In Points Scored To Be Competitive​

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Brotherblues

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The offense will improve naturally just by having Mac not be a rookie anymore, plus him and his targets gelling with a second season together. I'd love to add one WR a cut above Bourne/Meyers, or a slot machine, but the O should improve regardless.
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
The 462 points scored includes defensive points when the offense was drinking gatorade.
129 points were scored on 2 teams - Jets and Jags.
NE had 23 INTs. Points are skewed If the offense got the ball back in scoring position without moving the ball at all.
The 2021 Pats beat 2 post season teams- Titans and Bills. Quite frankly, I would have not wanted this team to face the Titans in the post season. We saw what happened vs Buffalo.

Bottom line is the 2021 NE passing defense and rushing offense were top 10.

The 2021 rushing defense and passing offense were bottom 1/3 of the NFL.
 
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zimmy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
it's not about how many points we scored - it's how we scored them. We need to make the offense more multiple so that its capable of scoring points in different ways and in different types of game. We scored heavily when we took the lead and could play the run first play action game; which also enabled the D to pin its ears back. We now need to make the offense more multiple so it can spread teams out if necessary, play from behind etc. some of that will come with Mac's development, but we also need to add another top weapon.
 

jal

Practice Squad Player
Two things to disentangle here:

1. The offense needs to be more robust, as many other posters have pointed out - can't necessary score a lot when forced to pass to comeback. That's very tied to Mac's progression and he needs to develop further in all aspects (physical and mental), could also use a reliable mismatch receiver although I think it's less important than others do. We didn't have that "guy" for our first dynasty run but Tom always figured out a way even when he had to pass 50+ times to bring us back from a hole. Expecting Mac to be even first dynasty Tom isn't fair so yes, let's go get a real #1 (easier said than done)

2. The offense was really strong in the middle of the season and weakened into the end. That's somewhat on Mac but I also think a lot on the offensive line play which deteriorated a lot. We are really missing Scar

We are unfortunately like many others in that we have a lot of holes to fill on both sides of the ball. I would focus on the offensive line first for the O then weapons, on D we need to replace the aging vets that lost a ton of steam by the end. I assume Judon also got hurt which hurt the defense a ton - Barmore emerging more would help to give some redundancy to our pass rush but another 1-2 young rushers is a big need. We are 1-2 bigtime drafts away from being a true contender. That's ok - it's a process.
 

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