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Alec Baldwin "Rust" Gun Tragedy Thread

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Dec 6th

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Ice_Ice_Brady

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Isn’t it better just to hire someone competent than hire someone who was an armourer but had a gun go off at her last production?

I mean, when you think about it, that’s the absolute worst person on the planet to hire. She’s proven beyond any doubt that no, she can’t perform the very basic, very straightforward task she’s been hired to do.

 

DaBruinz

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And more information comes out today that some of the crew had been using said firearm for some "fun shooting" prior to everyone else getting on site. Which explains why there was "live ammunition" on the site..

Also, prior to the day that Halyna was shot, there had been 3 accidental discharges on the set. This is what had led to several complaints and 6 of the camera crew walking off the set the weekend prior to the accident.

So, plenty of negligence to go around. Not looking good for Baldwin, the Armorer, the "asst/First Director", or the key grip.
 

DaBruinz

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One thing I'll add is that accidental discharge doesn't mean a live round was discharged. It just means the weapon went off which is not uncommon on older revolvers like that if you're not handling with care.
Any firearm, if not handled with care, can discharge. It doesn't matter if it's old or new.

If you are talking about Single Action revolvers, then you have to note that they can only discharge if the hammer has been ****ed. Otherwise, there is no way for the hammer/firing pin to adequately hit primer to engage it.

Now, your definition of accidental discharge is erroneous. It doesn't matter if the round is a "LIVE" round or a "BLANK". If the trigger is pulled to release the hammer/firing pin into the primer and the primer ignites, then you have a discharge. The only way it might be accidental is if an outside force pulls on the trigger. Otherwise, it's a negligent discharge.

It should be noted that it is impossible for a firearm to discharge if it's not loaded.
 

betterthanthealternative

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Here's what I don't understand: why are they using a real firearm in a movie at all? Just print a fascimile without all the guts, add some weight to it to make it move appropriately in the hands of the actors, and make the film. It would be easy to make one that looks real on film but clearly isn't to the person handling it.

Seems like some stupid tradition from the 1950's that would have started because someone like John Wayne would insist on using "a real gun" and everyone was afraid of him.
 

Kontradiction

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Here's what I don't understand: why are they using a real firearm in a movie at all? Just print a fascimile without all the guts, add some weight to it to make it move appropriately in the hands of the actors, and make the film. It would be easy to make one that looks real on film but clearly isn't to the person handling it.

Seems like some stupid tradition from the 1950's that would have started because someone like John Wayne would insist on using "a real gun" and everyone was afraid of him.
John Wayne. The most patriotic draft dodger of all time.
 

PP2

Pro Bowl Player
Here's what I don't understand: why are they using a real firearm in a movie at all? Just print a fascimile without all the guts, add some weight to it to make it move appropriately in the hands of the actors, and make the film. It would be easy to make one that looks real on film but clearly isn't to the person handling it.

Seems like some stupid tradition from the 1950's that would have started because someone like John Wayne would insist on using "a real gun" and everyone was afraid of him.

More to the point, they could have used nonfunctioning prop guns and added all the effects in post.

But that costs more than using blanks, and since this was a low-budget outfit......
 

Joker

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In the summer of 1921, Roscoe “Fatty” Arbuckle was on top of the world. Paramount Pictures had paid him an unprecedented $3 million over three years to star in 18 silent films, and he’d just signed another million-dollar contract with the studio. The portly comedian’s latest film, Crazy to Marry, was playing in theaters across the country. So his friend Fred Fischbach planned a big party to celebrate, a three-day Labor Day bash at the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco.


But by the end of the week, Fatty Arbuckle was sitting in Cell No. 12 on “felony row” at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, held without bail in the slaying of a 25-year-old actress named Virginia Rappe. Crazy to Marry was quickly pulled from theaters, and a nation was outraged to discover a sordid side to the off-screen lives of Hollywood stars. Behind Arbuckle’s troubles was a mysterious woman named Maude Delmont, a witness for the prosecution who would never be called to testify because police and prosecutors knew her story would not hold up on the stand. Yet what she had to say would be more than enough to ruin Arbuckle’s career.



Shyt happens and has been happening for eons...the Baldwin shytstorm is just SSDD
 

FirstAndGoal

In the Starting Line-Up
Heard some more this morning but sounding like the armorer is going to take the fall right now. Not sure if they're just pinning it on her but people coming forward about her lack of professionalism. Also hearing all ammo wasn't even locked up and was just sitting on a truck with open access...wtf. The news says the weapon had both blanks and live rounds in it. Assistant director saying he checked 3 rounds but didn't check the other 3... that sounds a little fishy to me; not impossible but convenient alibi. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even check it.

Everything went to FBI labs and crossing fingers to see if they left the cylinder intact so the casing can pulled and they can look for a print. That would possibly tell you who loaded it. I still can't wrap my head around how a live round got into it and even more curious how you actually got a mixture of rounds into it. The live round would look, feel, and weigh differently than the other rounds.... everyone there needs to pee into a cup :/
 

Bruins29

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Or more likely Baldwin told the armorer to take the heat and he will make it worth their while -$$$$$

Remember, always have a fall guy
 

Kontradiction

Dr. P-ussy
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Heard some more this morning but sounding like the armorer is going to take the fall right now. Not sure if they're just pinning it on her but people coming forward about her lack of professionalism. Also hearing all ammo wasn't even locked up and was just sitting on a truck with open access...wtf. The news says the weapon had both blanks and live rounds in it. Assistant director saying he checked 3 rounds but didn't check the other 3... that sounds a little fishy to me; not impossible but convenient alibi. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even check it.

Everything went to FBI labs and crossing fingers to see if they left the cylinder intact so the casing can pulled and they can look for a print. That would possibly tell you who loaded it. I still can't wrap my head around how a live round got into it and even more curious how you actually got a mixture of rounds into it. The live round would look, feel, and weigh differently than the other rounds.... everyone there needs to pee into a cup :/
Doesn’t surprise me. Baldwin has money. The armorer doesn’t.
 

PP2

Pro Bowl Player
Heard some more this morning but sounding like the armorer is going to take the fall right now. Not sure if they're just pinning it on her but people coming forward about her lack of professionalism. Also hearing all ammo wasn't even locked up and was just sitting on a truck with open access...wtf. The news says the weapon had both blanks and live rounds in it. Assistant director saying he checked 3 rounds but didn't check the other 3... that sounds a little fishy to me; not impossible but convenient alibi. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even check it.

Everything went to FBI labs and crossing fingers to see if they left the cylinder intact so the casing can pulled and they can look for a print. That would possibly tell you who loaded it. I still can't wrap my head around how a live round got into it and even more curious how you actually got a mixture of rounds into it. The live round would look, feel, and weigh differently than the other rounds.... everyone there needs to pee into a cup :/

Not surprised that everyone is pulling a CYA right now. If they go after the armorer, that would be stunning and infuriating, and show that they don't know **** about making movies.

The thing about this industry is that it is really ****ty for the BTS (behind the scene) people, especially at the Indie level, employment is never guaranteed and income is volatile, and if you're IATSE, you are prohibited from non-union flicks. You're constantly jumping from one 30 day gig to another, with unpredictable downtimes inbetween. So it's not like people signed onto this **** job ignorantly. Money is money, period. And in this way you understand why people only walk off at the last minute, or sadly, never. Even when you realize the dangers of it all, like Sarah Jones, 2nd AD on the Allman biopic- she had a bad feeling the night before but...
 
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FirstAndGoal

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah, but I'm not saying they shouldn't go after the armorer too. Armorer should have complete control over the distribution and safety procedures. Having served as the assistant armorer (military), you are in complete control on the range and in the cage (what's the room is called where weapons are stored). You can shut everything down and there's nothing anyone of any rank can do about it. If the armorer shuts it down, it gets shut down and then if there's a question about what the armorer did, it's addressed but if the armorer makes a decision based on predetermined rules, even the CO (commanding officer) can't override him. All they can do is adhere to the rules and then address it once the range is cleared and cold.

If she did allow half the crap I'm hearing, she did not have control. The assistant director's "I checked 3 rounds..." sounds like the excuse of someone who didn't check anything but didn't want admit they didn't so they say they checked the "wrong rounds".

Baldwin should have checked the weapon again but on that one, I'm not sure what the rules are. For instance, if I were the armorer on the set, I might state that I was the only one allowed to load the weapon and the weapons were not to be tampered with once I did. In that case, I would have a second person watch me load it. The actor would be violating my rule if they did breach the weapon to look at the cylinder. One reason I might not want the actors to breach the weapon is you would have to remove the rounds from the cylinder to verify them and then reload the cylinder which defeats the purpose of me (the armorer) loading it.

I don't know. Sounds like amateur hour on that set but either the armorer wasn't allowed control or they didn't exercise it but negligence from top to bottom.
 

1960Pats

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I never really cared for James Woods the actor....politics yes....actor no. Always annoyed me.
I never really cared much for actors in general. I think it's a highly overrated skill that even young kids can learn. To me, the real skill is in the writing. Give me a well written story and I could probably plug in a handful of actors in any of the roles and have the same result.
 

1960Pats

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I can see that side. It just drives me nuts that this could happen. Whomever was in charge should have made sure everyone on the set had adequate safety training. More importantly you would think that someone who has decades of experience in movies and life would know basic gun safety. Especially someone who presents himself as smarter than the rest of us.
This is why I think we see Baldwin taking a PR hit on something that, on the surface, doesn't look like his fault at all. If he wasn't such a hypocrite about guns, like the rest of Hollyweird, he'd be in a little better shape. He also needs to figure out how to deal with being the one who pulled the trigger.
Make an example out of him - make sure it never happens again.
It would definitely be a deterrent in future accidental deaths. :)
I think he means get rid of real guns, and it sounds like Hollywood is already headed that way after this, so at least there's that.
Hollyweird is about as far away from getting rid of guns as anyplace could be. If anything they glorify the use of guns.
The fact that you think it's just on the armorer is what is wrong. It's on the Armorer. It's on the "First Director" who supposedly did a safety check and called the gun "Cold". And it's on Baldwin for not double checking while the armorer is standing beside him to ensure that the gun is, in fact, unloaded.

It's Baldwin's finger on the trigger. He's in control of whether the trigger is pulled or not.

Sorry, but it's gun safety 101. You make sure whatever fire arm you're handling is unloaded. That goes doubly so if you are intending to pull the trigger while practicing your draw.

People pretending that Baldwin doesn't have responsibility here are ridiculous.
I've come around a little on that. Now I feel like he's responsible even though it's an accident. No matter what though it's in incredible irony for Baldwin.
 

RobertWeathers

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I never really cared much for actors in general. I think it's a highly overrated skill that even young kids can learn. To me, the real skill is in the writing. Give me a well written story and I could probably plug in a handful of actors in any of the roles and have the same result.
Agree but I see it as going hand and hand.

That's why complex, intricate roles go to guys like Daniel Day Lewis and not clowns like Seth Rogan.
 

Ian

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Hollyweird is about as far away from getting rid of guns as anyplace could be. If anything they glorify the use of guns.
I meant using any form of blanks/ammunition. They'll still use the guns, but I think the flashes, sounds, etc. will likely just be done in post-production like some of the TV shows are already discussing.
 

1960Pats

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Agree but I see it as going hand and hand.

That's why complex, intricate roles go to guys like Daniel Day Lewis and not clowns like Seth Rogan.
I think what happens with movies is that we relate to the actor more than the role he's playing. When I read a great book I envision each character in my mind. When I see it on film I end up thinking of the actor instead.

Of course some actors are better than others, but as long as we're getting the "Lewises" and not the "Rogans" it should be fine with good writing. If I took the cast from the Godfather and moved them to different roles it would likely be just as good.
 

DaBruinz

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Interesting note. Adam Baldwin (no relation) who has done numerous movies and shows with firearms (Full Metal Jacket, Last Ship) has said that he's ALWAYS had to check the weapon with the armorer to ensure that it wasn't loaded with "live" ammunition". He seemed to dispel the idea that actors weren't part of the safety checks.
 
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Ice_Ice_Brady

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I never really cared much for actors in general. I think it's a highly overrated skill that even young kids can learn. To me, the real skill is in the writing. Give me a well written story and I could probably plug in a handful of actors in any of the roles and have the same result.

Hollywood, sure. Doesn’t take that much to get a scene right with all those takes, preferred angles and lighting, adding the voice over afterwards, etc.

Broadway/stage productions are different. Some of those performers are incredible.
 
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