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12 wins, book it.

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archstanton543

In the Starting Line-Up
Yea that was one the first things I thought but I thought of but was going for "more" to represent each description.
I use that word bc scrambling is a huge part of what they do it's their collective that goes into a game plan, how a defense will play you, the extraordinary out of nothing ....

Hes a tough one but I would go Terminator. Elway too probably on the freak side.

Bolded is a big fear. This board had a ton of good members and it does seem like there's 10-15 regulars going back and forth on the same topic.

I also think #5 is real. No fun being like everyone else. I knew that would kill some people. Pats were gods like for a time. You had teams that had great success like the Steelers, Ravens, Colts but nobody was competing for a SB like we did for 20 years.
"For a time"? For a generation.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
The minor gripe I have and I poke fun at on occasion is how some threads get out of control and posters can't stop going back to that thread - like a bee hive. In fact, it has deterred some like myself from creating threads with new topics because people like to go where the action already is.
This place definitely needs a jump start but like others have pointed out it's a lull for most.

Just think it would be nice to leave the agendas at the door. We all know where everyone stands by now.
As of right now, there's no reason to think they couldn't be like they were during the Bledsoe years starting in 1996-1999 (serious playoff/possible Super Bowl contender). Contrary to popular belief, I think they a few draft hits away from being in serious contention (WR, pass rusher, LB, CB). They don't have a lot of weaknesses/question marks, but the one's they do have, are major and will hold the team back (WR, run stuffing DL, LB, CB). With that being said, we have a lot to be excited about with Mac Jones and should keep the Pats in at least playoff/division contention for years to come.
It really is all on Mac. Everything else is attainable or doable in terms of putting the other pieces in place. We'll know very soon bc he's in a great spot to succeed and he has the mental makeup of what you want.
So we're average?

I think when you look at the collective of where we are in our division, our conference. We're slightly above average until proven otherwise.

Like the Bills are very good most of the time. Few great games but they're in the very good, really Fn good category.

Us, slightly above average.

Miami, average.

jete, poor.

Again until we see different this year. This division is in a weird place. One that it hasnt been in for some time. Lots of new faces, players, coaches, other personnel.

Next few years are interesting for a few different reasons. Young division with young QB's. All four teams will be "all in" by 23/24. Bills & Fins are close rn depending on Tua. Pats have like the 2nd or 3rd most cap space next year. I've been saying this since last summer.
I see our plan as .. 21 - see what you have, what money got you. 22 - who's improving, worth keeping for the eventual run in 23 - where we have a ton of space. Hopefully have a solid nucleus with Mac and Barmore being top 10-15 at their respected positions, hopefully a little higher for Mac. And guys like Dugger, Stevenson, & others being right behind them.

It'll be interesting to watch the "fandom" though and what that looks like 2-3 years from now.
Never thought of that:whistle: I like Bacon better anyway was never a candy fan.:)
You can call me anything you want buddy ;)
"For a time"? For a generation.
Yea I understated tf out of that, right? Again you know it if you lived through it. Teams like the colts, Ravens, Steelers were all very good and competitive for a SB at different points. We were in a constant state of either just coming up short - losing actual SB or AFCCG. Seemingly every year. Unbelievable and we'll never see it again bc there won't be another Brady in this lifetime.

I'm still hopeful Bill can jump a few lanes and get this Semi back on track and gets us in that "competitive SB" mode for another year or two.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
That's the deal though, right? you're either too high on a guy who JUST got on people's radar or 10 seconds after guys are on people's radar they're old and slow.

And BGC, I'm going to assume your where-have-all-papa's-heroes-gone lament was just a general observation and not a comment on yours truly, b/c if it is, gaw. Now, if you're commiserating with me about trying to get some chatter going, that is fine and I'm just a paranoid of Nixonian proportions and I don't mean Tre. Actually even Dick is looking like a piker by present day standards.

12-5 and also Carthagio delenda est.
No I barely notice you but it just seems like there's less posters here? I could be wrong and again its a lull for most. Just seems like we're missing a few good one too. And I don't mean anything by that. I mean everyone has favorites, no? Food, movies, porn, pork. I'm sure everyone has their fav's. Really not a shot at anyone. Just an observation that could be wrong.


As for the OP I think it's always best to see this team come together a little first. And we usually see that picture get painted around early August. We've seen a few weeks of who's, who and what the coaches are focusing on. Who's standing out, who's not - surprise no names, big name. Injuries.

Quick glance and gun to my head I see 10-7.
 

PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Well yay. I shoot for barely noticed. I fought the continue-as-we-were bias intentionally (the 10-7 default expectation) to see with all the gloom stories being spun what sunshine and lollipops looked like. With the season as the body of work, I do not remember in the past 20 years the Pats' D being bottom half of the league -- if someone has that year to point to, I'd love to see it. So that's a non-Brady-dependent comfort. Of course, there's a first time for everything, but I think we're predisposed to call for calamity. 10-7 isn't doing that. It's a group where you're hoping the names you're just learning turn and the ones you've got slotted as "retreads" turn into revelations.
 

crawhammer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
at least you're optimistic about the upcoming season.
I don't think 9-10 wins is pessimistic. You tell me where the team is clearly above average? RB is probably their best position group. Their overall roster looks pretty mediocre. I don't think they're getting much out of their rookie class and the most consequential free agency move was losing their best DB. And Patricia doing the offensive play-calling is frightening. A lot is resting on the development of Mac Jones as he will need to make a significant jump for the team to be competitive with the better teams on their schedule. I'm locking in 0-2 against Buffalo so in order for them to get to 12 wins they'll have go 12-3 against everyone else.

Looking just at their road games:
@ Miami
@ Pittsburgh
@ Green Bay
@ Cleveland (let's assume with Watson)
@ NYJ
@ Minnesota
@ Arizona
@ Las Vegas

Even assuming they go 7-1 at home (which would include wins against Baltimore, Indianapolis and Cincinnati), they would have to go 5-3 in those road games to get to 12 wins. I don't see 5 wins in there. I think 10-7 is a fair prediction (even borderline optimistic).
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I don't think 9-10 wins is pessimistic. You tell me where the team is clearly above average? RB is probably their best position group. Their overall roster looks pretty mediocre. I don't think they're getting much out of their rookie class and the most consequential free agency move was losing their best DB. And Patricia doing the offensive play-calling is frightening. A lot is resting on the development of Mac Jones as he will need to make a significant jump for the team to be competitive with the better teams on their schedule. I'm locking in 0-2 against Buffalo so in order for them to get to 12 wins they'll have go 12-3 against everyone else.

Looking just at their road games:
@ Miami
@ Pittsburgh
@ Green Bay
@ Cleveland (let's assume with Watson)
@ NYJ
@ Minnesota
@ Arizona
@ Las Vegas

Even assuming they go 7-1 at home (which would include wins against Baltimore, Indianapolis and Cincinnati), they would have to go 5-3 in those road games to get to 12 wins. I don't see 5 wins in there. I think 10-7 is a fair prediction (even borderline optimistic).
What in the world makes you think Patricia will be doing the majority of the play calling? How many times has BB ran without a named coordinator and made the calls himself? BB is the one doing the majority of the offensive play call this year, you can book that.

Buffalo got really hot at the end of the season, they were up and down for a lot of the rest of the season.

Bills lost against:
- Steelers
- Titans
- Jaguars (score was 9 to 6)
- Got trounced by the Colts
- Patriots ran them into the ground
- Buccaneers

So they were a 11 and 6 team. Not exactly world beaters. I think we split with the Bills this year.

Miami got rid of the best head coach they've had in a while, we at least split with Miami if not run the table on them.
Jets is a win, they didn't get any better and word out of training camp is that Wilson is still having accuracy issues
Minnesota is a win
Pittsburgh is a win
Arizona is a toss up
Vegas is a toss up

I think 11 and 6 is reasonable this year, a game better than last year.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
What in the world makes you think Patricia will be doing the majority of the play calling? How many times has BB ran without a named coordinator and made the calls himself? BB is the one doing the majority of the offensive play call this year, you can book that.

Buffalo got really hot at the end of the season, they were up and down for a lot of the rest of the season.

Bills lost against:
- Steelers
- Titans
- Jaguars (score was 9 to 6)
- Got trounced by the Colts
- Patriots ran them into the ground
- Buccaneers

So they were a 11 and 6 team. Not exactly world beaters. I think we split with the Bills this year.

Miami got rid of the best head coach they've had in a while, we at least split with Miami if not run the table on them.
Jets is a win, they didn't get any better and word out of training camp is that Wilson is still having accuracy issues
Minnesota is a win
Pittsburgh is a win
Arizona is a toss up
Vegas is a toss up

I think 11 and 6 is reasonable this year, a game better than last year.
Yep, by DVOA the Bills were the highest variance (most unpredictable) team in the league. The Pats were the 3rd highest variance team. Both were good teams and not surprisingly split the regular season, but the Bills got hot and the Pats got cold at the end, which is all anyone remembers.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

High Priest at Team Bill's Temple
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't think 9-10 wins is pessimistic. You tell me where the team is clearly above average? RB is probably their best position group. Their overall roster looks pretty mediocre. I don't think they're getting much out of their rookie class and the most consequential free agency move was losing their best DB. And Patricia doing the offensive play-calling is frightening. A lot is resting on the development of Mac Jones as he will need to make a significant jump for the team to be competitive with the better teams on their schedule. I'm locking in 0-2 against Buffalo so in order for them to get to 12 wins they'll have go 12-3 against everyone else.

Looking just at their road games:
@ Miami
@ Pittsburgh
@ Green Bay
@ Cleveland (let's assume with Watson)
@ NYJ
@ Minnesota
@ Arizona
@ Las Vegas

Even assuming they go 7-1 at home (which would include wins against Baltimore, Indianapolis and Cincinnati), they would have to go 5-3 in those road games to get to 12 wins. I don't see 5 wins in there. I think 10-7 is a fair prediction (even borderline optimistic).

They’re at 8.5 wins by most sports books. An average team with what appears now to be a pretty tough schedule. And I’ll add that if people are going with “intangibles” and momentum, etc. they did not have a good offseason, as they were cash strapped, and are coming off arguably the most embarrassing loss in franchise history. I think a 10 win season is optimistic. I do think it’s achievable but Mac needs to take a big step forward.
 

crawhammer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
What in the world makes you think Patricia will be doing the majority of the play calling? How many times has BB ran without a named coordinator and made the calls himself? BB is the one doing the majority of the offensive play call this year, you can book that.
Doesn't make me feel much better about it. In his 37th season of coaching Bill's going to call offensive plays for the first time? Like he's standing on the sideline with a play sheet calling in the plays? I don't see it happening. More than likely Patricia and/or Judge will be calling plays for the offense.

Buffalo got really hot at the end of the season, they were up and down for a lot of the rest of the season.

Bills lost against:
- Steelers
- Titans
- Jaguars (score was 9 to 6)
- Got trounced by the Colts
- Patriots ran them into the ground
- Buccaneers

So they were a 11 and 6 team. Not exactly world beaters. I think we split with the Bills this year.
On paper Buffalo is a much better team and they've improved their team from last season while in my opinion we did not. Check out Buffalo's schedule... September and October are tough but it's pretty soft after that. Buffalo has a much better shot at 12 wins (or more) than the Patriots.

Miami got rid of the best head coach they've had in a while, we at least split with Miami if not run the table on them.
Jets is a win, they didn't get any better and word out of training camp is that Wilson is still having accuracy issues
Minnesota is a win
Pittsburgh is a win
Arizona is a toss up
Vegas is a toss up

I think 11 and 6 is reasonable this year, a game better than last year.
If Minnesota's offense is healthy then we're probably losing that game.

Ultimately you're predicting 1 or 2 more wins so we're not that far apart regarding their record. Granted that 1 or 2 games will make a big difference in the standings. I can see them getting in as a wild card but Buffalo's winning the division for sure.
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Doesn't make me feel much better about it. In his 37th season of coaching Bill's going to call offensive plays for the first time? Like he's standing on the sideline with a play sheet calling in the plays? I don't see it happening. More than likely Patricia and/or Judge will be calling plays for the offense.


On paper Buffalo is a much better team and they've improved their team from last season while in my opinion we did not. Check out Buffalo's schedule... September and October are tough but it's pretty soft after that. Buffalo has a much better shot at 12 wins (or more) than the Patriots.


If Minnesota's offense is healthy then we're probably losing that game.

Ultimately you're predicting 1 or 2 more wins so we're not that far apart regarding their record. Granted that 1 or 2 games will make a big difference in the standings. I can see them getting in as a wild card but Buffalo's winning the division for sure.
It's not the first time he's called offensive plays. He did it before JMD became O coordinator for the first time and I'm sure there have been other times. And is there someone more qualified than BB to call the plays?

Better on paper quite often doesn't translate on the field. Let's see what we can see during training camp. But I'm optimistic this season
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Closer to 12 losses is more like it... Our defense almost completely sucks at every level but maybe Safety (whoopee!); Wynn/Lose is being groomed to start at... RT(?!?)... Our OL depth behind the starters is either unproven or just plain trash; Parker/Agholor is one of the very Worst starting Outside WR pairs in the conference; and oh yeah our coaching staff is a national joke.

Other than that we're in terrific shape.

Pray that Lady Luck spreads her legs and gives us more timely injuries by our opponent and more crazy weather conditions...
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
They’re at 8.5 wins by most sports books. An average team with what appears now to be a pretty tough schedule. And I’ll add that if people are going with “intangibles” and momentum, etc. they did not have a good offseason, as they were cash strapped, and are coming off arguably the most embarrassing loss in franchise history. I think a 10 win season is optimistic. I do think it’s achievable but Mac needs to take a big step forward.

Mac's the least of my concerns with this team... Having Parker, Agholor & JonNo Smith act as if they possess just a modicum of pride in their work relative to their bloated paychecks would be a nice start... Same with Wynn/Lose... And with Godsmack & Zero-INT Mills on defense...

Lotta thieves in the building right now... Hang on to your valuables...
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Mac's the least of my concerns with this team... Having Parker, Agholor & JonNo Smith act as if they possess just a modicum of pride in their work relative to their bloated paychecks would be a nice start... Same with Wynn/Lose... And with Godsmack & Zero-INT Mills on defense...

Lotta thieves in the building right now... Hang on to your valuables...
Would you consider yourself to have a glass completely empty kind of world view?
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Closer to 12 losses is more like it... Our defense almost completely sucks at every level but maybe Safety (whoopee!); Wynn/Lose is being groomed to start at... RT(?!?)... Our OL depth behind the starters is either unproven or just plain trash; Parker/Agholor is one of the very Worst starting Outside WR pairs in the conference; and oh yeah our coaching staff is a national joke.

Other than that we're in terrific shape.

Pray that Lady Luck spreads her legs and gives us more timely injuries by our opponent and more crazy weather conditions...
I’ll give you 100 to 1 on under 6 wins. They lose 12 or more I owe you $100 they don’t you owe me $1.
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Someone else agrees with the OP here:

“I think they’re a 12-win team,” Ninkovich said. “…Listen, six months ago I thought they were a nine-win team."

 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Someone else agrees with the OP here:




We all anticipate good things from 2nd-year Mac & Rham; and yes the Receiving corps has improved to an as-yet-unknown degree... But he gave no real reasons why he thinks this will be a good defense... Because there aren't any...
 

UrbanCowboy

HoustonPatsFan
PatsFans.com Supporter
using battle-tested fan logic that last year's free agent splash pays dividends this year -- and all the other team's splashy moves this offseason won't pan out till next year -- we go 11-6.
 

TheRainMaker

My Mom says I'm a catch
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
We all anticipate good things from 2nd-year Mac & Rham; and yes the Receiving corps has improved to an as-yet-unknown degree... But he gave no real reasons why he thinks this will be a good defense... Because there aren't any...
As they've done for many years, they will have a statically deceiving defense. The real defense arrives when they play a .500 or better team which somehow shocks the board.
 

Scotty

In the Starting Line-Up
I thought 10 - 7 a couple of months ago but I did not write wins/losses down so will probably come up with something else now ......duh !! Anyway, looking forward to Camp and getting another look at the team.
 

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