This is good for a laugh: 2000 draft revisted

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5484334

I love some of the quotes regarding Brady:

Scouts thought there might also be a couple of practice squad scrubs like Michigan's Tom Brady and West Virginia's Marc Bulger worth picking up toward the end of the second day

or

Brady is tall, smart, dedicated, coachable and a good decision-maker." Still, neither Buchsbaum nor anyone else expected Brady to become a dependable starter, let alone a superstar.



And these poepl do this stuff for a living!!!!!!!!!

funny that noodle-arm was 18 over all.

Well Pennington should thank Randy Moss. Because without Moss lighting up scoreboards in his rookie year, Penny would have never been so hyped up. Therefore taken 18th overall. He was a decent player before he became an egg. He did pick apart the Pats in the '02 in Foxboro 30-17 I believe. Then he had the freak injuries.

Football Outsiders had a good retrospective on that draft
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/04/07/ramblings/nfl-draft/3808/
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My favorite though is…..
Peter King….
Bears C minus grade
23. Chicago. Brian Urlacher had better be great. I keep getting a feeling that he might be 80 percent player, 20 percent shoot-up-the-chart myth.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/peter_king/news/2000/04/16/king_mmqb/

I wonder if King wants to rethink that one….

This beat Urlacher easily:

8. New England. J.R. Redmond will be the every-down back by Oct. 1. Not bad for the 76th overall pick.

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Although he hit this one right on the head:

I remember watching Wisconsin beat up Iowa last fall from the Marriott Suites/Chicago O'Hare and seeing Ron Dayne dominate the game and thinking: Boy, is he slow hitting the hole, and is he lucky to have that mountainous offensive line. The NFL will eat him alive. True? I don't know.

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I still prefer Borges', although it's about the 2001 draft:

"On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.

- Ron Borges, MSNBC after 2001 Draft."

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/homet...ges-150334.php

pats1 said:

This genius move

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Give him credit for calling the drafting of Seymour a genius move

I don't rag guys too much for dumb draft predictions. Even teams make plenty of mistakes. IIRC David Terrell was considered by just about anyone with an opinion to be a can't miss WR prospect. Apparently BB/Pioli wasn't amoungst them. Good thing.

stevedogc said:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5484334

I love some of the quotes regarding Brady:

Scouts thought there might also be a couple of practice squad scrubs like Michigan's Tom Brady and West Virginia's Marc Bulger worth picking up toward the end of the second day

or

Brady is tall, smart, dedicated, coachable and a good decision-maker." Still, neither Buchsbaum nor anyone else expected Brady to become a dependable starter, let alone a superstar.



And these poepl do this stuff for a living!!!!!!!!!

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In fairness, I don't think anyone, including BB, knew ahead of time what they had in Brady. Brady is one of those rare cases of a work-in-progress athlete who really didn't blossom until he entered the pros. The scouting assessments of his potential were probably accurate at the time he was drafted. Then he worked hard, developed himself, and surprised everyone after the fact.

You also see these type of things in college too. I remember that Derrick Johnson was a 3-star prospect going to Texas.

I just checked Rivals.com to look for any notable players soon to be drafted that weren't blue-chips coming out of high school. It only goes back to the 2002 class so I couldn't check any 5th year seniors.

All of these guys are now or were at one point 1st round prospects:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, 3-star
AJ Hawk, 3-star
Jimmy Williams, 3-star
Manny Lawson, 2-star
Demeco Ryans, 3-star
Sinorice Moss, 3-star
Richard Marshall, 2-star
Santonio Holmes, 3-star
Ko Simpson, 2-star

It's amazing looking back at all the 5-star blue chips that I've never heard of (though there's obviously a lot that panned out just as expected) and then all these guys that will be millionares in a couple weeks that weren't a big deal 4 years ago. That's the kind of players I like, the ones that weren't supposed to be where they are.

Tunescribe said:

In fairness, I don't think anyone, including BB, knew ahead of time what they had in Brady. Brady is one of those rare cases of a work-in-progress athlete who really didn't blossom until he entered the pros. The scouting assessments of his potential were probably accurate at the time he was drafted. Then he worked hard, developed himself, and surprised everyone after the fact.

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nah, the scouts really were clueless -- 199th?? -- probably the worst draft blunder of all time -- anyone who followed UM in '99 knew the Pats were lucky -- not saying anyone thought he'd be winning SBs on the Pats (we were god-awful), but as a senior Tom was as good a college QB as there was in the country: http://home.earthlink.net/~thetaildragger/Pats/TB/index.htm

Okay, I'll fess up, I was screaming for David Terrell when the Pats pick came around. I wasn't the only one - these boards were hopping after "one-sack" Seymour became our pick.

Murphys95 said:

Okay, I'll fess up, I was screaming for David Terrell when the Pats pick came around. I wasn't the only one - these boards were hopping after "one-sack" Seymour became our pick.

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I was at the lake that weekend fishing with my friend and his dad in a casual bass fishing tournament his company was having. I remember being on the docks after we had come in and everyone was talking about how they'd done. The trailer we had rented had cable so I was anxious to get back over there and check it out. I knew at this point the 1st round was past midway through. I remember at one point honestly starting to shake for a second because I wanted to go check on the draft so bad. I really wanted Terrell.

When we got back it was at commercial. "d%#*!@t!" When it came back it was scrolling through the latest picks. It got back to the start of the 1st. Vick, Leonard Davis, Warren, Justin Smith......."c'mon baby, he's still there..c'mon", Tomlinson to the Chargers. "Yes, Yes! We got him, we got.........Seymour? You've got to be kidding me!"

After I calmed down, it became "I guess he's a good player and all but how could we pass on Terrell?"

From that point on I haven't questioned a Patriots pick. I obviously have my favorites and don't like seeing us skip over them but I've always given each pick a chance since then.

the taildragger said:

nah, the scouts really were clueless -- 199th?? -- probably the worst draft blunder of all time -- anyone who followed UM in '99 knew the Pats were lucky -- not saying anyone thought he'd be winning SBs on the Pats (we were god-awful), but as a senior Tom was as good a college QB as there was in the country: http://home.earthlink.net/~thetaildragger/Pats/TB/index.htm

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You're suggesting that ALL the NFL scouts and draft prognosticators were "clueless"? How does that happen? Their assessments were based on his potential for the pro game, which is a lot different compared to college. There are dozens of successful major college QBs who never did a thing in the NFL. From the time he was drafted to the time he became our starter in 2001, Brady transformed himself through hard work and a couple years growing in the game.

Crazy Patriot Guy said:

After I calmed down, it became "I guess he's a good player and all but how could we pass on Terrell?"

From that point on I haven't questioned a Patriots pick. I obviously have my favorites and don't like seeing us skip over them but I've always given each pick a chance since then.

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The funny part about that '01 draft was many mocks had Seymour going to the Patriots...but it still came a surprise to skip over the heralded Terrell.

Tunescribe said:

You're suggesting that ALL the NFL scouts and draft prognosticators were "clueless"? How does that happen? Their assessments were based on his potential for the pro game, which is a lot different compared to college. There are dozens of successful major college QBs who never did a thing in the NFL. From the time he was drafted to the time he became our starter in 2001, Brady transformed himself through hard work and a couple years growing in the game.

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"On the subject of college evaluation, the lack of judgment is appalling. This is the most important position in football. How can the NFL spend millions of dollars to evaluate players and be so consistently wrong?” – Steve Sabol (2002)

we'll have to agree to disagree. I understand that the college and pro games are different and that what a guy accomplishes or does in college does not just project neatly into the NFL. I understand there have been major flops in the first round, this also does not make the scouts look any better. I also understand that tom "worked hard" and continues to work hard to make himself better.

We agree on all of that.

He was not however a 6th round prospect, as any honest, thorough and well educated evaluation would've indicated.

Again, we're not talking about a guy who didn't IMPROVE, we're talking about a guy who was already proven at a major program who had enormous POTENTIAL and was so good that, after riding the pine as a rookie, he stepped in on an emergency basis in his first season as a starter and took a team to a championship. That team had 70-1 preseason odds (this was before the highest paid QB in the league went down). No other QB in history has come close to winning a championship on what was widely perceived as a "bad team." He was also the youngest QB to ever win a championship. And yet he was passed over 5-6 times by each team in the league

Three kickers were slected in front of him as well as a slew of other QBs WHO HAVE, AS YOU POINT OUT, FLOPPED.

so yeah, in my book that represents the definition of the word clueless.

How does that happen?...you tell me -- seriously, I'd like to know.

Some guesses about how teams missed on Brady.

1. Tom looked under-sized as a College quarterback: tall, but skinny. Scouts may have assumed that he wouldn't have the strength to play in the NFL.

2. Playing for a top program can be a mixed blessing. When they win it's: well, of course, they have so much talent elsewhere any quarterback would look good.

3. Tom did not have a great arm for long throws. Scouts may have assumed that he'd reached a limit and would be found out at the next level

4. Perhaps his "nice guy" personality worked against him -- the modesty may have concealed his drive and leadership qualities.

I'm just happy that we got him!

Mike the Brit said:

Some guesses about how teams missed on Brady.

1. Tom looked under-sized as a College quarterback: tall, but skinny. Scouts may have assumed that he wouldn't have the strength to play in the NFL.

2. Playing for a top program can be a mixed blessing. When they win it's: well, of course, they have so much talent elsewhere any quarterback would look good.

3. Tom did not have a great arm for long throws. Scouts may have assumed that he'd reached a limit and would be found out at the next level

4. Perhaps his "nice guy" personality worked against him -- the modesty may have concealed his drive and leadership qualities.

I'm just happy that we got him!

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You nail the "explanation" as to why he was overlooked...my point is that each of these can be easily countered:

1. lots of assumptions indeed...at 6' 5", his size was nothing however that a few months in the gym couldn't -- and didn't -- remedy.

2. another widely-held assumption -- but in 98/99, he had 8 4th-quarter comebacks and was 10-2 in games decided by a TD...and everyone on the team said tom carried them...particularly in the 2 high profile bowl games they/he won.

3. this actually wasn't one of the assumptions made -- it was more about his lack of mobility and weight. the deep ball was a strength in college...he made it look easy, just as he does today -- Gil Brandt, the great scout for the Cowboys, was very impressed with his deep ball. IMO, he'll go down as throwing one of the prettiest and most accurate long balls in history.

4. TOTALLY AGREE! excellent point. to this day, he never toots his own horn...uncomfortable talking about himself or seperating himself from the rest of his team. He's plenty ****y on the field (the system bleeps out the word c-ocky, Beavis would have a field day in here). Just compare Tom's self-imposed modesty to Leinart who has already likened himself to Brady .

I'd add a 5th point: scouts assumed that because Henson was in the mix at UM it meant there was something wrong with Tom.

to this day, I'm just not convinced these scouts do enough film watching...there is a lot of copy-cat syndrome to these reports and general laziness...pretty sad given the $$ involved.

but it wasn't just the independent scouts like Kiper, the TEAM scouts were lazy too.

Mike,

TB had a very good Senior year at UM. He had some 'miracle' 4th quarter comebacks that might have revealed some intangibles that you can't measure at a Combine.

Calling the Pats "lucky" in getting Brady so late in the draft is a Borges trick to take any credit away from Belichick. Certainly, it can be agreed that nobody knew what they had in Brady at that time, else he would have gone higher. But Brady in 2000 and Brady in 2001 were totally different players.

I think the myth of Henson "beating him out" plus Brady's lack of weight at the time of the draft were the things that dropped him on the boards. It's a credit to the player that he had such a work ethic to improve his game and also improve his body, putting on significant muscle over the offseason. It's also a credit to the team that they helped him develop, including keeping on the roster as the fourth QB in 2000, then moving up to No. 2 ahead of Huard (seen with shock by some) the following preseason, and then sticking with him as the starter in the face of much criticism by those who thought Bledsoe was far and away the correct choice.

Yeah, the Pats didn't know what they had when they drafted him, but they saw enough to invest in him from day one.