Shula at it again with the "Asterisk" Argument

**** Don Shula....... Have of me wants to win for the glory and pride of my team, but the other half just wants to shut him, and all the rest of the a-wipes up. God. they annoy me.

'They won by cheating, but if they go 19-0 I'll be the first one to congratulate them'.

Yeah, that sounds pretty much on the level.

shmessy said:

'They won by cheating, but if they go 19-0 I'll be the first one to congratulate them'.

Yeah, that sounds pretty much on the level.

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Did you take the time to listen to the interview that the column was based upon?

shmessy said:

'They won by cheating, but if they go 19-0 I'll be the first one to congratulate them'.

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You're quoting him saying that "they won by cheating, but if they go 19-0 I'll be the first one to congratulate them."

Would you kindly show me where he says that?

If you're just making up quotes now, why do you feel the need to do that? The guy's nearly 80 years old and desparately hanging on to his legacy.

That's pathetic enough for me - I don't see the need to fabricate quotes if that's what you're doing.

JoeSixPat said:

You're quoting him saying that "they won by cheating, but if they go 19-0 I'll be the first one to congratulate them."

Would you kindly show me where he says that?

If you're just making up quotes now, why do you feel the need to do that? The guy's nearly 80 years old and desparately hanging on to his legacy.

That's pathetic enough for me - I don't see the need to fabricate quotes if that's what you're doing.

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Please note the difference between a " and a '.

If you read the comment in the column again, he is not backing down from the asterisk argument AND he is saying he will be the first to congratulate them. Are you really going to say that you see no disconnect in that?

shula_guy said:

I guess I will be flamed just for my user name alone.

I dont know why you all are mad at everyones comments about spygate. If I were a pats fans I would be mad at my coach for making such a dumb and unneeded transgression. I understand, he like every other coach in the NFL was looking for an edge but the difference is he got caught. The fact that he has gotten caught dosnt rob you of your teams accomplishment but it does detract from it. Nomatter how much you want to pretend like it did not happen, it did and there will be people who bring it up.

Shula really did not say anything hateful he just didnt say what you all wanted to hear. You can disagree, but why be hateful towards him?

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The commissioner said whatever the Patriots did had no impact on the outcome of any game. Period. Prove he was lying. Until you do, this media concoction called "Spygate" is just a sad excuse fans of losing teams can point to after the Patriots kick their teams' @$$. You call it 'Spygate". Here we refer to it as "Kicking the Jets' @$$ by any means necessary". Maybe if your dip$hit coaches gave it a try, you would win 2 games per season.

As for your senile dribbling old coach, in a week, after the Pats wreck the giants, nobody will remember him or his players anymore. They will fade into history, the lights will go out, and you'll be stuck facing the reality of what you are today, a joke franchise that just went 1-15 and is hanging it's hopes on a GM who reputation rests on a Sb he won 20 years ago. Cheers.

shula_guy said:

I guess I will be flamed just for my user name alone.

I dont know why you all are mad at everyones comments about spygate. If I were a pats fans I would be mad at my coach for making such a dumb and unneeded transgression. I understand, he like every other coach in the NFL was looking for an edge but the difference is he got caught. The fact that he has gotten caught dosnt rob you of your teams accomplishment but it does detract from it. Nomatter how much you want to pretend like it did not happen, it did and there will be people who bring it up.

Shula really did not say anything hateful he just didnt say what you all wanted to hear. You can disagree, but why be hateful towards him?

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Shula Guy, as I said earlier in this thread, I actually have more respect for Mercury Morris (deluded as he may be) in this than Shula.

Morris is saying he's against them and he is being brutally honest. Shula is saying he's against them, they deserve an asterisk ('although perhaps I'm not the person to say it' - - then why SAY it???????) and THEN states that he will be the first person to call and congratulate them.

THAT is rank two-faced hypocracy. If Shula wants to take a stand, he should take a stand. What he is doing with this false, double faced passive aggressiveness is pathetic.

PonyExpress said:

The commissioner said whatever the Patriots did had no impact on the outcome of any game. Period. Prove he was lying. Until you do, this media concoction called "Spygate" is just blanket fans of losing teams can cuddle with while they cry themselves to sleep watching the Patriots kick their teams' @$$. You call it 'Spygate". Here we refer to it as "Kicking the Jets' @$$ by any means necessary". Maybe if your dip$hit coaches gave it a try, you would win 2 games per season.

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They did. They won 21-0 against the Pats last year by recording Brady's audibles.

SackDance said:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-bianchi2508jan25,0,3990753.column

The old man is at it again. When will he ever learn? Guess when you're about to be pushed out of the record books, it's hard to accept.

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hey Shula, Football has passed you by "gramps", stick to STEAK!

shula_guy said:

I guess I will be flamed just for my user name alone.

I dont know why you all are mad at everyones comments about spygate. If I were a pats fans I would be mad at my coach for making such a dumb and unneeded transgression. I understand, he like every other coach in the NFL was looking for an edge but the difference is he got caught. The fact that he has gotten caught dosnt rob you of your teams accomplishment but it does detract from it.

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After the 1969 season, Joe Robbie, owner of the Miami Dolphins, signed Shula to a contract to become Miami's second head coach. As a result of Shula's signing the team was charged with tampering by the NFL, which forced the Dolphins to give their first round pick to the Colts.

TripleOption said:

to the Colts.[/b]

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Right off the bat that's a more eggregious violation than Spygate because of those three words.

TripleOption said:

After the 1969 season, Joe Robbie, owner of the Miami Dolphins, signed Shula to a contract to become Miami's second head coach. As a result of Shula's signing the team was charged with tampering by the NFL, which forced the Dolphins to give their first round pick to the Colts.

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1969/1970 ≠ 1972

Deus Irae said:

1969/1970 ≠ 1972

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No, but it tarnishes his entire legacy in Miami, doesn't it? And his "holier than thou" attitude?

TripleOption said:

No, but it tarnishes his entire legacy in Miami, doesn't it? And his "holier than thou" attitude?

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Why would it? It doesn't tarnish Parcells that the Jets tampered and it doesn't tarnish BB that Kraft had to work out things with the Jets when he came here. You, and many others, are trying to conflate completely different issues.


Something that happened in the offseason over a year before the perfect season is a hell of a lot different than something that happened DURING the Patriots' perfect season, should it happen.

Deus Irae said:

Why would it? It doesn't tarnish Parcells that the Jets tampered and it doesn't tarnish BB that Kraft had to work out things with the Jets when he came here. They are completely different issues.


Something that happened in the offseason over a year before the perfect season is a hell of a lot different than something that happened DURING the Patriots' perfect season, should it happen.

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And it doesn't tarnish Belichick's legacy that he had a nearly useless tape of a crappy team's signals.

TripleOption said:

And it doesn't tarnish Belichick's legacy that he had a nearly useless tape of a crappy team's signals.

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Of course it does. Belichick was the one who had the signals taped. Since Roger "Never should have been chosen" Goodell has ruled and BB never appealed, BB's legacy is stained. It's just the way it is. You are taking the word "should" and replacing it with "does". I agree that this SHOULD never have been an issue. Hell, go back and peruse my posts on the subject. I had a lengthy back and forth with PatsFanInVa, I believe, for one example.

However, Goodell insured that it DID become one, and that's just the way it is, whether you and I like it or not. And, like it or not, the Patriots' refusal to defend themselves insured that this is exactly how this would play out. The team, and the coach, made a stupid decision when they decided not to appeal, and it's left the fans holding the bag.

shmessy said:

Please note the difference between a " and a '.

If you read the comment in the column again, he is not backing down from the asterisk argument AND he is saying he will be the first to congratulate them. Are you really going to say that you see no disconnect in that?

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So what your saying is 'Shula's actual quotes don't fully support my contention so I'm going to paraphrase with my own interpretation.'

I understand. He didn't actually say that. But you seem to wish he had.

What he did say many weeks ago was stupid - it was just wrong and proved he didn't know the facts because no one can assert that there's anything illegal the Patriots did this season that affected the outcome of even one game.

Shula initially asserted that the Patriots actions HAD altered the outcome of the season - he was wrong, and when he realized it he backed away.

But its not difficult for me to see how he's trying to save face by not coming right out and saying he was completely wrong to make those comments earlier in the season. That's human nature.

Ironically Shula just looks all the more the fool at best - and at worse someone who is losing their faculties as they approach 80.

The actual facts that embarrass Shula are enough for me - I see no reason to put words in his mouth or otherwise paraphrase what he actually said. It's bad enough as is.

I can't be bothered to read all ten pages of this thread, so I don't know if someone else made this point about the article, but the guy wrote:

Shula was coaching the Dolphins 25 years ago when former Patriots coach Ron Meyer infamously instructed a prison work-release convict on a snow plow to illegally cut a swath in the ice so the Patriots could kick a game-winning field goal.


In fact, there was nothing illegal about it. There was no rule against it. Shula had the competition committee institute a rule against it the following year...shades of Polian, no?

I would expect Shula to root for the Giants. IT doesn't really bother me, but it would be nice if, after the Pats win, and Shula extends his hearty congrats, BB tells him to go pound sand.

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.

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Goodell said he had considered suspending Belichick but didn't "largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/13/sportsline/main3260092.shtml

Yes, let's keep attacking everyone who makes comments against the Patriots regarding spygate given this wording by Goodell because, clearly, people who take Goodell's comments and actions to heart and apply the rationale can't possibly think anything the Patriots did was bad and deserving of censure.

Deus Irae said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/13/sportsline/main3260092.shtml

Yes, let's keep attacking everyone who makes comments against the Patriots regarding spygate given this wording by Goodell because, clearly, people who take Goodell's comments and actions to heart and apply the rationale can't possibly think anything the Patriots did was bad and deserving of censure.

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Excuse me, but really how many here say that what the Patriots/BB did was not "deserving of censure"?

I, for one, believe that they were deserving of penalties for breaking the rule. They WERE penalized. They DID pay for it.

The point here is about Shula arguing that they should be penalized FURTHER with an asterisk. The rule breaking occurred within the first 7 minutes of the first game of the season. Even the biggest Patriot haters admit that it had no effect on the 18 (perhaps 19) subsequent wins.

The argument (despite your above effort to steer it there) does NOT center around whether the Patriots deserved their ALREADY SERVED penalty. It concerns Don Shula's contention that a FURTHER censure is necessitated. In this regard, he is on an island with the New York Post and a few other 'highly regarded' segments of society.

If he is not to be considered a rank hypocrit, then he should accept that the 1972 Miami Dolphins should have an asterisk attached to THEMSELVES. They won their 17 straight games with an illegally obtained Head Coach. It must have been a big crime, since the NFL penalized them a first round draft choice for it. The fact that the illegal hiring took place two years earlier had as much effect if not more (they got to keep their illegally obtained coach, but the Pats had to give up their tapes and could not tape further) than the fact that the illegal taping occurred within the first 7 minutes of the 2007 season.