BB speaks - briefly

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/03/24/belichick_knows_this_routine/

Patriots coach Bill Belichick does not share in the widespread panic that seems to have engulfed Patriot fandom over the losses of free agents Willie McGinest (Cleveland), Adam Vinatieri (Indianapolis), and David Givens (Tennessee), key starters on the team's recent Super Bowl championship squads.

Meanwhile, in the two weeks teams have been able to sign free agents, New England has added only Reche Caldwell, a receiver considered a disappointment with the Chargers, who selected him in the second round in 2002.
''This is all part of the process," Belichick said yesterday. ''You do everything you can to improve the team when you can do it. That's the process. And it doesn't stop, really, until you get to the regular season. We have a long way to go."

As far as losing players to other teams, Belichick points to the long list of players who have departed in recent years, rattling off the names of Ty Law, Joe Andruzzi, and Ted Washington to illustrate there are changes each offseason.

''Every team has to go through it," Belichick said.

An interesting quote....translated..the team gets older..players move on and younger players come in...the changing of the guard...

Pats726 said:

An interesting quote....translated..the team gets older..players move on and younger players come in...the changing of the guard...

Click to expand...

The "changing of the guard" saying may be accurate, then again the old "if it ain't broken don't fix it" saying may be true as well. No one can realistically expect every player to return but it to lose this many core players is disconcerting.

I remain concerned that BB will have a tough time replacing the "older" players who were still playing at a high level. Remeber some of these old players have been instrumental in the Pats success. Let's not pull a Duquette- Clemens where a player is deemed to be in the twilight of his career simply because of his chronological age. Granted I know baseball is different but the lost Pat players IMO still have a lot in the tank.

They had a couple of holes to fill after the Denver loss and (so far) another four our five holes have appeared in the past couple of weeks.

Brick said:

They had a couple of holes to fill after the Denver loss and (so far) another four our five holes have appeared in the past couple of weeks.

Click to expand...

What were the holes to fill after the Denver loss??

Brick said:

The "changing of the guard" saying may be accurate, then again the old "if it ain't broken don't fix it" saying may be true as well. No one can realistically expect every player to return but it to lose this many core players is disconcerting.

I remain concerned that BB will have a tough time replacing the "older" players who were still playing at a high level. Remeber some of these old players have been instrumental in the Pats success. Let's not pull a Duquette- Clemens where a player is deemed to be in the twilight of his career simply because of his chronological age. Granted I know baseball is different but the lost Pat players IMO still have a lot in the tank.

They had a couple of holes to fill after the Denver loss and (so far) another four our five holes have appeared in the past couple of weeks.

Click to expand...

would you feel the same if these three (Givens, Adam, and Willie) had just retired? would there be all the doom and gloom? I think 90% of all the sky is falling stuff is because they were popular players that went to other teams. I bet that if they retired, then we would not be in panic mode, even though we would have to replace them anyway. Let put this all in perspective...we act like Givens was the number one reciever...he was not, and can be replaced very easy. Adam is a kicker, a very good, very clutch kicker that has played a big part in our Dynasty, but you just can't justify paying a kicker the money he just got from the Colts. Thats why they will never win...they have a lot of money tied up in a few starters and the rest of the team stinks IMO as we have our money spread out over every player, thus the quality from top to bottom of our roster is solid throughout. Willie was also a very good, very clutch player but again, no way in hell can we afford to pay him what he got. That just does not make for good use of funds. So, the biggest problem with the fans is thinking with emotions. I will tell you this, if i had to chosse between the Pats winning superbowl and Tom Brady, i would go with the superbowl, even though he my favorite player. I would be heart broken is he left, but if my team was to continue to win the ring, all is good.

''This is all part of the process," Belichick said yesterday. ''You do everything you can to improve the team when you can do it. That's the process. And it doesn't stop, really, until you get to the regular season. We have a long way to go."

''Every team has to go through it," Belichick said.

That's Crazy Talk. spend some money NOWWWW!!!!!!!! :bricks:

NEM said:

Reminiscent of his days at Cleveland. I hope not.

Click to expand...

Interesting you should say that. The fan reaction in New England over Adam's departure was akin to that of Bernie Kosar's benching in Cleveland. Certainly they were both different situations, but ultimately Belichick was proven correct with his decision to sit fan favorite Kosar.

That is not to say BB is always right, or will be in this case, but at the very least he and his staff have earned some leeway with what they've accomplished. In other words, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, wait and see. It's still only March.

Here is the laundry list of potential fallout from these moves:

We may have decided that one of our 3 starting caliber OLBs at age 34 is closer to finished than he really is. OK, we decided not to delay the inevitable.

We may end up with a decent K with no good or bad record as a clutch kicker in place of a decent one with a good record in the clutch. Aside from the Snow Bowl the clutch guy did nothing extraordinary that you would not expect 90% of the Ks in the NFL to do.

We are replacing our #2 WR. There is the possibility we will be worse at this position. OH MY GOD, WE ARENT ALLOWED TO EVER GET WORSE AT ANY POSITION OR THE DYNASTY IS OVER!!!!!! Now the reality check. I have a pretty good feeling that whoever we put on the field at WR will be better than the corps of Brown, Patten, and my grandmother that we won a SB with.
I'm sure that we can be as good or better than 2003 when Branch missed a lot of the season, Patten missed almost all of it, Brown was no longer starting caliber, and we had Givens, Bethel Johnson, Brown, and a host of nobodies and won a SB.

What is thye doom and gloom about?


We are returing:

The best QB in the NFL
The best DL in the NFL.
The entire OL, but for one backup.
The entire RB/FB postion.
The 2 top TEs.
3 of the top 4 LBs.
The entire secondary but for guys who didnt play when we played our best.

We have 20mill, lots of draft picks, and 4 1/2 months and we are lacking:

a KICKER
The #2 WR (I think Caldwell at least replace Dwight)
One LB

It doesnt look too hard to me.

AndyJohnson said:

We are returing:

. . .

It doesnt look too hard to me.

Click to expand...

If we could just have a league average year in injuries for once, I think we're stronger this year than last. Fine, Givens is a loss, Vinatieri is and McGinest is fr the locker room and depth.

But we're also returning Light, Koppen, Graham, Gay, Chad Scott, and half our Safeties. And maybe even the real Dillon, we'll have to see about that.

Sure we'll have a few season ending injuries, it's the NFL. But if we can just be league average instead of league leading in injuries, we're better off now than last year IMO . . . and we still have gobs of cap room and draft choices.

BelichickFan said:

If we could just have a league average year in injuries for once, I think we're stronger this year than last. Fine, Givens is a loss, Vinatieri is and McGinest is fr the locker room and depth.

But we're also returning Light, Koppen, Graham, Gay, Chad Scott, and half our Safeties. And maybe even the real Dillon, we'll have to see about that.

Sure we'll have a few season ending injuries, it's the NFL. But if we can just be league average instead of league leading in injuries, we're better off now than last year IMO . . . and we still have gobs of cap room and draft choices.

Click to expand...

Wouldnt it make sense that cutting ties with older players may have this in mind?

re

Brick, it's impossible for a team to 'stay with what works' over many years with a hard salary cap. Think about it.

If you draft a lot of good young players, every single year, their value goes up. By the time their first contract ends, you need to find more money to keep those players.

In order to lock in young talent, a team has to let go of older, expensive talent and shift that money over. If the young talent wants too much money, then you need to get value by trying to get picks.

The Pats have let go so many good players, but the machine keeps on rolling.
Drew Bledsoe, Ty Law, Lawyor Milloy, Willie McGinest, Terry Glenn, Ted Washington, Adam Vinatieri, Damien Woody, Joe Andruzzi, David Givens, Chris Slade... the list goes on.

The day I start worrying is the day the Pats start over-paying for players over 30 years old. That would tell me that the Pats no longer have a lot of young developing talent, and need to over-pay to fill holes on the team.

.

AndyJohnson said:

We have 20mill, lots of draft picks, and 4 1/2 months and we are lacking:

a KICKER
The #2 WR (I think Caldwell at least replace Dwight)
One LB
It doesnt look too hard to me.

Click to expand...

I agree with you totally..it is NOT at all time to panic or be gloomy!! There are some secondary needs....besides the OBVIOUS 3 replacements..a kicker, a starting LB and a #2 receiver.
A 3rd TE, a backup OL, a backup QB, A RB for the future, a DB, 1-2 STers. Even with that...it is HARDLY a BIG task at all!! Not only is the draft filled with players, but when the rubber meets the road, some players on the roster may be falling out..becoming available in June. As was stated on EEI a few days ago...there are some agents that believe the Pats will be in a great position to get 2-3 players in their early 30s..at good prices...It is NOT time to panic...NOT at all!!

cutting ties with older players...

AndyJohnson said:

Wouldnt it make sense that cutting ties with older players may have this in mind?

Click to expand...

IMO letting older players go AT THE RIGHT TIME is a key for sustaining championship-caliber teams. cowboys are an example of how NOT to do that.
keeping the "core" players is also critical to sustaining elite play. the steelers of the 1970s are a great example. SBs in the early 70s, then again in '78 and '79. they still had 14 Core Players: joe greene, lambert, andy russell, blount, Tony Dungy, jack ham, lc greenwood, bradshaw, harris, bleier, mike webster, K roy gerela, and two HOF WRs.
notice: 1. the kicker was part of the core, 2. the QB was still alive, and 3. the cadre of ball handlers was intact.
clearly it was not possible to keep either mcginest or givens once they got into the '05-'06 offseason. IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT FAR.
brady will miss givens. we underestimate the value of having a QB/WRs who have gone thru multiple training camps, IN THE SAME SYSTEM, together. it's what steelers had with bradshaw, bleier, harris, stallworth, and swann. they knew each other, knew where everybody would be. bradshaw had thrown thousands of out patterns to the WRs over the years---he probably didn't have to look for them after 5-6 years.
McGinest was and is unusual. he was a GOOD 'tweener---too quick for OLs and too big for TEs, FBs. he got amazing penetration off the edge, and could still blow up running plays.
so yeah, we've only lost a #2 WR, and we have 3 of 4 LBs. and corey dillon has another year of experience, right?

ilduce06410 said:

IMO letting older players go AT THE RIGHT TIME is a key for sustaining championship-caliber teams. cowboys are an example of how NOT to do that.
keeping the "core" players is also critical to sustaining elite play. the steelers of the 1970s are a great example. SBs in the early 70s, then again in '78 and '79. they still had 14 Core Players: joe greene, lambert, andy russell, blount, Tony Dungy, jack ham, lc greenwood, bradshaw, harris, bleier, mike webster, K roy gerela, and two HOF WRs.
notice: 1. the kicker was part of the core, 2. the QB was still alive, and 3. the cadre of ball handlers was intact.
clearly it was not possible to keep either mcginest or givens once they got into the '05-'06 offseason. IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT FAR.
brady will miss givens. we underestimate the value of having a QB/WRs who have gone thru multiple training camps, IN THE SAME SYSTEM, together. it's what steelers had with bradshaw, bleier, harris, stallworth, and swann. they knew each other, knew where everybody would be. bradshaw had thrown thousands of out patterns to the WRs over the years---he probably didn't have to look for them after 5-6 years.
McGinest was and is unusual. he was a GOOD 'tweener---too quick for OLs and too big for TEs, FBs. he got amazing penetration off the edge, and could still blow up running plays.
so yeah, we've only lost a #2 WR, and we have 3 of 4 LBs. and corey dillon has another year of experience, right?

Click to expand...

I dont get your point.
The Steelers dynsaty was because of Roy Gerela?
No team can win unless the QBs and WRs are together for 5-6 years? Glad we didnt tell the Pats that in 01 and 03.
I love McGinest but I think you are overrating him. Even if not, its a fact of life to lose good players and need to replace them.

Im not sure what you mean by it never should have gotten that far.
Are you saying it would have been OK to overpay them if we did it earlier? Or are you trying to say that David Givens could have been duped into to taking less money to give up his FA rights than he was going to get? Givens wasnt signed sooner, because Givens wouldnt sign and the Patriots wouldnt overpay him to sign.

AndyJohnson said:

What is the doom and gloom about?

We are returing:

The best QB in the NFL
The best DL in the NFL.
The entire OL, but for one backup.
The entire RB/FB postion.
The 2 top TEs.
3 of the top 4 LBs.
The entire secondary but for guys who didnt play when we played our best.

We have 20mill, lots of draft picks, and 4 1/2 months and we are lacking:

It doesnt look too hard to me.

Click to expand...

It's 360 miles to Foxboro
we have a full tank of gas
half a pack of cigarettes
it's dark out and we're wearing sunglasses

BB is a genious

BB is thinking long term. If we pay Willie a fortune at his age what do we pay Semour this off seaon? If we pay Givens as a number one receiver (which he isn't) what do we pay Branch next year? This is a slippery slope and it ends with the likes of Indy and the Redskins. Teams trying to buy there way to a Superbowl one year at a time with a rotating lineup.

In BB we trust.

He has the right idea. The players we have lost are good but not worth what the teams they have went to are paying. I love Adam but come on... 3.5 million signing bonus for a kicker. I don't care if he is the best kicker ever (and I think he is) he is still just a kicker. We save that money and invest it in some more good players and maybe we don't need to win by a fieldgoal as often.

Just my two cents.

atlpatsfan said:

BB is thinking long term. If we pay Willie a fortune at his age what do we pay Semour this off seaon? If we pay Givens as a number one receiver (which he isn't) what do we pay Branch next year? This is a slippery slope and it ends with the likes of Indy and the Redskins. Teams trying to buy there way to a Superbowl one year at a time with a rotating lineup.

In BB we trust.

He has the right idea. The players we have lost are good but not worth what the teams they have went to are paying. I love Adam but come on... 3.5 million signing bonus for a kicker. I don't care if he is the best kicker ever (and I think he is) he is still just a kicker. We save that money and invest it in some more good players and maybe we don't need to win by a fieldgoal as often.

Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

2006s FA moves are not about 2006, but about 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009...............
If you are only thinking 2006, why not keep Willie? AV? Why not have spent all 20mill on the best players on the market.
When you are thinking long term those decisions change.

AndyJohnson said:

2006s FA moves are not about 2006, but about 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009...............
If you are only thinking 2006, why not keep Willie? AV? Why not have spent all 20mill on the best players on the market.
When you are thinking long term those decisions change.

Click to expand...

I think you made a really importnat point here...it is not just THIS year..but THIS year and the next FEW!! If teams just look at one year..they miss the long view and will overpay and then have to keep adjusting year after year..no long range plan. Remember Bobby Grier and his Rucci/Lane contracts??? WHat a total screw up...That will never happen with this FO. They are planning for the future in ways we do NOT understand.

AndyJohnson said:

I have a pretty good feeling that whoever we put on the field at WR will be better than the corps of Brown, Patten, and my grandmother that we won a SB with.

Click to expand...

Andy, was your grandmother Fred Coleman? If so, can I get an autograph?

kurtinelson said:

Andy, was your grandmother Fred Coleman? If so, can I get an autograph?

Click to expand...

No, my grandmother actually lasted a few days longer in the NFL.
I originally typed 'nobody' and then thought 'my grandmother' was a funnier line.