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Patriots restructure Dave Andrews contract


Without any question?

I suggest that you do a calculation of the top 51, with and without these players. You will find that these cap savings is under $3M, since these players would be replaced on the top 51 by players who would account for over $900K each.
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Other than Montgomery, these cuts seem likely. I would hope for a 7th for Harry, increasing the savings a bit. Belichick would likely replace Montgomery with another STer at about the same cost. But, yes, these are part of the normal process of moving from 87 players to 53.
Why couldn't Strong replace Montgomery? I get he's a rookie, but it appears Montgomery's value is in STs. Strong could certainly do that while getting acclimated to the run game.
 
Why couldn't Strong replace Montgomery? I get he's a rookie, but it appears Montgomery's value is in STs. Strong could certainly do that while getting acclimated to the run game.
I understand that some posters think that ST's requires no skills. Why not say that Strong should be considered as a backup LG or as a backup DT? Bolden was a very good, and very important, member of ST's. He left. Belichick signed Montgomery as his ST replacement.

I think that we confuse things when we consider the other skills that some top special teamers have. For example. FOR ME, M Jones is our punt returner. The fact that he might be our #5 CB or #6 CB is great, but he was drafted to be our punt returner.

And so it was for Bolden. He was a starter on ST's.

Why aren't you asking if we should cut Slater? Surely, Thornton can take on his roles on ST's.
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To be clear, I'm fine with an upgrade for Montgomery (or almost anyone else) if Belichick wants to sign one.
 
I understand that some posters think that ST's requires no skills. Why not say that Strong should be considered as a backup LG or as a backup DT? Bolden was a very good, and very important, member of ST's. He left. Belichick signed Montgomery as his ST replacement.
Bolden wasn't a LG or DT was he? He was a RB. Montgomery is a RB. Strong is a RB. A fast one. You're telling me Strong can't perform the ST duties that another older, slower RB performed? I guess only certain types of RBs can be STers. Lol
Why aren't you asking if we should cut Slater? Surely, Thornton can take on his roles on ST's.
Because Montgomery is a jag, Slater is an All Pro. I thought that was obvious.
 
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I understand that some posters think that ST's requires no skills. Why not say that Strong should be considered as a backup LG or as a backup DT? Bolden was a very good, and very important, member of ST's. He left. Belichick signed Montgomery as his ST replacement.
Here you go genius, from Bleacher report:

"Strong will be best utilized as part of a committee where he can spell a bigger back and use his speed on runs and screens against worn-down defenses. He is a competitive and tough player who has the athleticism to give him a chance to contribute on special teams as well."
 
Here you go genius, from Bleacher report:

"Strong will be best utilized as part of a committee where he can spell a bigger back and use his speed on runs and screens against worn-down defenses. He is a competitive and tough player who has the athleticism to give him a chance to contribute on special teams as well."
rofl

A mediot says that Strong has a chance to contribute on Special Teams.

To you, this means that he can replace a top STer.
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I would certainly hope that all backups would be given a chance to contribute on Special Teams. If they can't, many won't make the team. In any case, it is unlikely that they would be active on Game Day.
 
rofl

A mediot says that Strong has a chance to contribute on Special Teams.
Is Belichick a mediot?
"What is his special teams value? Strong ran a 4.37-second 40-yard dash at the Scouting Combine earlier this year, the fastest such time at his position group. His elite speed makes him an option as a kickoff and punt returner, even though he has seen only limited action in this department in college. In total, he returned five kickoffs for an average gain of 25.4 yards. The Patriots might give him an opportunity in this area moving forward, though, after already doing just that in mandatory minicamp."

To you, this means that he can replace a top STer.
Not sure why you think this is such an outlandish take. The unofficial depth chart lists Montgomery & JJ Taylor as returners (both RBs). Montgomery has a career kick return of 22.4 yards, hardly elite. It's laughable that you think Montgomery is so special he can replace a top STer.

Strong is younger, faster and more athletic than Montgomery:

Strong: 5-11, 205, 23.5 yo
RAS: 9.35
40 time: 4.37 sec
Broad jump: 124
Vertical: 36
3 cone: 6.95

Montgomery: 6-0, 216, 29.5 yo
RAS: 7.75
40 time: 4.55 sec
Broad jump: 121
Vertical: 40.5
3 cone: 6.97

Maybe it's just me, but I sure hope Strong can beat out Montgomery since I like the kid & I'm bearish on him. Montgomery is a JAG, you can keep him.
 
Is Belichick a mediot?
"What is his special teams value? Strong ran a 4.37-second 40-yard dash at the Scouting Combine earlier this year, the fastest such time at his position group. His elite speed makes him an option as a kickoff and punt returner, even though he has seen only limited action in this department in college. In total, he returned five kickoffs for an average gain of 25.4 yards. The Patriots might give him an opportunity in this area moving forward, though, after already doing just that in mandatory minicamp."
They’ll try out every rookie at special teams to see where they can provide value. If Strong can’t pass block or contribute on special teams he won’t be active on Sundays. I think it’s far more likely Marcus Jones is the return man, he was one of the best in the nation at it in college.
Not sure why you think this is such an outlandish take. The unofficial depth chart lists Montgomery & JJ Taylor as returners (both RBs). Montgomery has a career kick return of 22.4 yards, hardly elite. It's laughable that you think Montgomery is so special he can replace a top STer.
Montgomery had as many tackles at gunner last season as Brandon Bolden, there are other positions on special teams besides return man. Someone has to block and tackle.
Strong is younger, faster and more athletic than Montgomery:
Montgomery is bigger and also very athletic for his size, he’s a very good athlete. He also can play multiple positions in two phases. RB/WR/ST’s.
Maybe it's just me, but I sure hope Strong can beat out Montgomery since I like the kid & I'm bearish on him. Montgomery is a JAG, you can keep him.
Strong was a draft binkie of mine but once the draft ends any favoritism goes out the window. If all the RB’s make it through camp and preseason healthy there will be a logjam there… especially if the two rookies show some pass blocking chops and contribute on ST’s.

The X-factor is Damien Harris, if he doesn’t come to terms on a team friendly deal there’s a strong possibility of him getting traded to a RB needy team before the season begins. RB’s are expendable, you don’t want to invest in them long term.
 
Is Belichick a mediot?
"What is his special teams value? Strong ran a 4.37-second 40-yard dash at the Scouting Combine earlier this year, the fastest such time at his position group. His elite speed makes him an option as a kickoff and punt returner, even though he has seen only limited action in this department in college. In total, he returned five kickoffs for an average gain of 25.4 yards. The Patriots might give him an opportunity in this area moving forward, though, after already doing just that in mandatory minicamp."


Not sure why you think this is such an outlandish take. The unofficial depth chart lists Montgomery & JJ Taylor as returners (both RBs). Montgomery has a career kick return of 22.4 yards, hardly elite. It's laughable that you think Montgomery is so special he can replace a top STer.

Strong is younger, faster and more athletic than Montgomery:

Strong: 5-11, 205, 23.5 yo
RAS: 9.35
40 time: 4.37 sec
Broad jump: 124
Vertical: 36
3 cone: 6.95

Montgomery: 6-0, 216, 29.5 yo
RAS: 7.75
40 time: 4.55 sec
Broad jump: 121
Vertical: 40.5
3 cone: 6.97

Maybe it's just me, but I sure hope Strong can beat out Montgomery since I like the kid & I'm bearish on him. Montgomery is a JAG, you can keep him.

Having the athletic ability to play special teams is nothing more than the entry requirement to get a shot at it. It is far from evidence that it can be done, just like any other position on the field. We've had dozens of guys who had the athletic ability to play WR, CB, LB, etc. but who didn't prove out to be good enough in those roles. Same with special teams. Slater isn't some kind of athletic freak; he's just really good at the many skills, mental and physical, required to play a special teams role, of which there are several.
 


This is a really good visualization of what it means to restructure a contract. It doesn't "create cap space" it shuffles the cap space around. An argument can be made that, if you expect the cap to go up, that's the same thing, but numerically every dollar needs to be accounted for. And in this case, it looks like the cumulative cap hits actually went up about 600k.
 
They’ll try out every rookie at special teams to see where they can provide value. If Strong can’t pass block or contribute on special teams he won’t be active on Sundays. I think it’s far more likely Marcus Jones is the return man, he was one of the best in the nation at it in college.

Montgomery had as many tackles at gunner last season as Brandon Bolden, there are other positions on special teams besides return man. Someone has to block and tackle.

Montgomery is bigger and also very athletic for his size, he’s a very good athlete. He also can play multiple positions in two phases. RB/WR/ST’s.

Strong was a draft binkie of mine but once the draft ends any favoritism goes out the window. If all the RB’s make it through camp and preseason healthy there will be a logjam there… especially if the two rookies show some pass blocking chops and contribute on ST’s.

The X-factor is Damien Harris, if he doesn’t come to terms on a team friendly deal there’s a strong possibility of him getting traded to a RB needy team before the season begins. RB’s are expendable, you don’t want to invest in them long term.
I'm fine with all your comments except those regarding Harris. You seem to be thinking that they will extend him or dump him. I don't see why we would do that with our starter. He is part of a solid RB group, and will likely not be here after the season. Strong will have a season to develop so that we have Stevenson and Strong in 2023.
 
I'm fine with all your comments except those regarding Harris. You seem to be thinking that they will extend him or dump him. I don't see why we would do that with our starter. He is part of a solid RB group, and will likely not be here after the season. Strong will have a season to develop so that we have Stevenson and Strong in 2023.
Harris is in a contract year, they drafted two RB’s, not just one. Strong is a potential White replacement, Kevin Harris is more of a workhorse type.

When it comes to contract negotiations nobody is safe, this is the team that traded Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and threatened to send Gronk to Detroit.

Why Harris might re-sign? Seems like a bright kid who understands the value of being on a good team behind good blocking, he and Mac are bosom buddies.

They won’t likely let him walk and get nothing in return for him… that’s not the Patriots MO. Sony was a starter also…
 
Harris is in a contract year, they drafted two RB’s, not just one. Strong is a potential White replacement, Kevin Harris is more of a workhorse type.

When it comes to contract negotiations nobody is safe, this is the team that traded Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and threatened to send Gronk to Detroit.

Why Harris might re-sign? Seems like a bright kid who understands the value of being on a good team behind good blocking, he and Mac are bosom buddies.

They won’t likely let him walk and get nothing in return for him… that’s not the Patriots MO. Sony was a starter also…
You miss the point. There is no reason to cut our starting RB, merely because he will be gone after the season. And yes, we would get something for him, a compensation pick. Basically, you would have us replace our starter withe a 6th rounder just in order to get a 4th or 5th rpunder instead of a future 6th.

You would turn a complete group into one with a severe hole, especially if White can't play. Getting rid of players in the last year of an inexpensive rookie contract is for players like Winovich or Harry or Williams.
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Personally, I don't think that the team is really that interested in extending Harris, unless it is at a bargain. Their 2023 RB group will be inexpensive, and there is no reason to make it more expensive by ADDING Harris to the 2023 mix.
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Our primary difference seems to be that you think that the team is in active negotiations with Harris. I just don't see it.
 
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You miss the point. There is no reason to cut our starting RB, merely because he will be gone after the season. And yes, we would get something for him, a compensation pick. Basically, you would have us replace our starter withe a 6th rounder just in order to get a 4th or 5th rpunder instead of a future 6th.
I specifically said they wouldn’t “cut” him, they would trade him… especially if the two sides are far apart in negotiations. Money matters…

In 2022 the Patriots are slated to have the 2nd most cap space in the league… if they sign free agents (and they will) any compensatory picks evaporate.

Rhamondre would replace Harris as a starter, he’d be fine.
You would turn a complete group into one with a severe hole, especially if White can't play. Getting rid of players in the last year of an inexpensive rookie contract is for players like Winovich or Harry or Williams.
What would you pay Harris, would you overpay?

Negotiations are a two way street. I wished we could keep Chandler Jones, he wanted 100 million dollars… wish in one hand and crap in the other, then tell me which fills up first?
Personally, I don't think that the team is really that interested in extending Harris, unless it is at a bargain. Their 2023 RB group will be inexpensive, and there is no reason to make it more expensive by ADDING Harris to the 2023 mix.
So you don’t want to extend Harris, don’t want to trade him, you want to let him play out his final season then lose him for nothing… you might, the Pats likely won’t.
Our primary difference seems to be that you think that the team is in active negotiations with Harris. I just don't see it.
Negotiations with a player a team wants to keep begin the season before the last… that’s how things are done. Harris has been a good soldier, I’m sure they’d like to have him back if the price is right.

What Harris and his agent think matters more than what we do. The Pats drafted two RB’s, they may have already tipped their hand.
 
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What would you pay Harris, would you overpay?
I would pay Harris what his contract calls for, as we do for all 4th year players that have any value. Just BTW, patriot extensions are just that extensions. 2022 compensation wouldn't change.

There is little incentive for an extension.

Yes, we will indeed see if Harris traded. Belichick has made this kind of mistake before, but not very often. Trading Harris would leave us an injury from almost total disaster at RB. It is this kind of action that is totally unlike Belichick.

The whole idea behind drafting good players is getting an inexpensive quality 3rd and 4th season out of them
 
I would pay Harris what his contract calls for, as we do for all 4th year players that have any value. Just BTW, patriot extensions are just that extensions. 2022 compensation wouldn't change.
You seem to be dancing around a commitment. Either you want Harris or you don’t, you can’t have it both ways.
There is little incentive for an extension.
Either you want to extend Harris or you don’t, the incentive is irrelevant. He’s been a good player.
Yes, we will indeed see if Harris traded. Belichick has made this kind of mistake before, but not very often. Trading Harris would leave us an injury from almost total disaster at RB. It is this kind of action that is totally unlike Belichick.
Hyperbolic nonsense… do you want him or not? If yes what are you willing to pay? Stop waffling….
The whole idea behind drafting good players is getting an inexpensive quality 3rd and 4th season out of them
Agreed, it doesn’t mean you let Harris walk after his rookie contract ends with zero compensation. Players are assets, especially good players. That’s the entire reason we’re having this conversation. You’re sitting on the fence telling me a decision doesn’t have to be made…. it does. Sht or get off the pot.
 


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