Brady to Fox after he retires

pazrul72 said:

Same LB’s? Hightower, collins, and KVN are all gone. It’s about as top to bottom an overhaul as you can get. Now did they replace them with quality? That’s a fair question and one we won’t have an answer to for 5-6 months but they did replace big old slow guys with smaller young fast guys so hopefully they are in position to make a tackle or two.

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Judon and Bentley are the returning starters. Uche (significant playing time when healthy) will be battling with Perkins and Jennings on the outside opposite Judon who were all on the team last year. The other open spot will be a battle between all guys on the team last year with the exception of Wilson.

Technically, you are right as the are not the "same", but there's nobody new who's significant or upgraded (quality). Replacements were reserves from last year. This is what I meant by "same".

crawhammer said:

Brady > Montana by every standard imaginable... stats, winning, clutchness, leadership, toughness, etc. Brady literally has had a better career than Montana and Young combined.

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Except clutchness. I've proven that over and over again.

How come Mr. Clutch fumbled the ball vs the Eagles? How come he didn't move ball a single yard vs the Giants when he had the ball last in SB 42 and 3 TOs? Biggest game in NFL history and he played pedestrian.

Sure, Brady has had a better career - that's what you get for playing for 22 years. He has a lot of volume stats. And of course, he played with the GOAT coach. ,

MAC10 said:

Right, the guy who is "second" on the list by most people's standards has a higher Super Bowl rating and playoff rating in general than the first guy. And the guy at the top of the list couldn't close out SB 42, 46, or 52 against crappy teams. Lastly, the guy who is first on the list has never had a long game winning or game tying scoring drive with less than a minute left to go in the 4th (like what Stafford did last year vs TB).

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Brady had a walk off game winning TD in OT vs Atlanta if you don’t remember.

MAC10 said:

Except clutchness. I've proven that over and over again.

How come Mr. Clutch fumbled the ball vs the Eagles? How come he didn't move ball a single yard vs the Giants when he had the ball last in SB 42 and 3 TOs? Biggest game in NFL history and he played pedestrian.

Sure, Brady has had a better career - that's what you get for playing for 22 years. He has a lot of volume stats. And of course, he played with the GOAT coach. ,

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Since we're asking so many questions.... How come, without Brady, the "GOAT coach" is below .500, with all of 1 playoff win - which came all the way back during the Clinton administration (first term)?

Boomer B said:

Brady had a walk off game winning TD in OT vs Atlanta if you don’t remember.

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Yes, I was at the game. And that addresses nothing I said.

MAC10 said:

Yes, I was at the game. And that addresses nothing I said.

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Bet you were cheering for Tommy in that one

MAC10 said:

How come Mr. Clutch fumbled the ball vs the Eagles?

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He was exhausted from carrying Belichick on his back all night long. Pretty much carried the entire team and coaching staff on his back for the entire season. Defense was garbage that season and the head coach made it worse by benching their snaps leader. Seriously WTF!

Bruins29 said:

The only loser here is you.

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Why is that? Because the Truth hurts about Tommy Kardashian.

Brewskies said:

Why is that? Because the Truth hurts about Tommy Kardashian.

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That's your problem right there... you hate the person so much it clouds your judgment of the player. You feel compelled to discredit his accomplishments as a player as means of dumping on the person. I don't understand why you hate him so much, seems disproportional to the actual person, but I really don't care unless you carry it over into his football career, where he's pretty untouchable at this point... his career is about as close to perfection as any professional athlete has ever gotten.

crawhammer said:

That's your problem right there... you hate the person so much it clouds your judgment of the player. You feel compelled to discredit his accomplishments as a player as means of dumping on the person. I don't understand why you hate him so much, seems disproportional to the actual person, but I really don't care unless you carry it over into his football career, where he's pretty untouchable at this point... his career is about as close to perfection as any professional athlete has ever gotten.

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I never discredited Tommy Kardashian's playing career, maybe a game per game performance but he is talented as a QB. As an individual that's another story, Tommy Kardashian, is what he is, I call him a POS. He is so much into himself. At Kourtney Kardashian's wedding to Tom Blake, Tommy Kardashian was there sucking up the camera. He wants to insert shots from the wedding into his fixed golf match with Arron Rodgers. Payten Manning is laughing about Tommy's golf game. Payten was surprised when he received his Brady retirement gift back from Tom Kardashian Brady.

It's funny AsF that an 80+ yo man is so into the Kardashians. LMFAO

XLIX said:

Since we're asking so many questions.... How come, without Brady, the "GOAT coach" is below .500, with all of 1 playoff win - which came all the way back during the Clinton administration (first term)?

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So 2 years of the Pats with Brady on the bench (00, 08) and 5 for a franchise that, just as it was turning the corner after some very difficult and controversial changes that were looking good, had the rug yanked out from underneath it by a shady and selfish owner? You want to base BB's legacy on that?

^^^^^^^^^ Almost as funny (actually creepy) as a 50 year old man with a picture of two teenage girls as his avatar...

Chevy said:

So 2 years of the Pats with Brady on the bench (00, 08) and 5 for a franchise that, just as it was turning the corner after some very difficult and controversial changes that were looking good, had the rug yanked out from underneath it by a shady and selfish owner? You want to base BB's legacy on that?

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If we are talking about Bill Belichick's legacy, then we look at the whole picture. If we are talking about Belichick without Brady, then he has had 9 years as a HC witha sub-.500 record and all of 1 playoff win. Sorry not sorry, but you can't cherry pick out the entire 9 years.

The Belichick krishnas all have the same argument: "If you take away his bad years because reasons, then his record is really very good!"

XLIX said:

If we are talking about Bill Belichick's legacy, then we look at the whole picture. If we are talking about Belichick without Brady, then he has had 9 years as a HC witha sub-.500 record and all of 1 playoff win. Sorry not sorry, but you can't cherry pick out the entire 9 years.

The Belichick krishnas all have the same argument: "If you take away his bad years because reasons, then his record is really very good!"

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I see it more of the numbers not telling the whole story.

2000 - no argument rebuild year.
(2001 - absolute fluke.)
2002 - What 2001 probably should have been, but now the org has more confidence than ever.
2008 - Crushing injury - both in talent and offensive flexibility, but damn if the backup once again held up his end.
2020/2021 - Rebuilding, some hope but a lot of it false. Huge transition from TB (and making up for the previous years' moves cap-wise).

I'm in the both camp - neither Bill nor Tom would have had this level of success without the other. Would another franchise allow the 100M dollar QB to site after clearing medical? Or start a banged up youngster in the biggest game of the year? Or keep the game manager (and that's what TB was early on) and trade the fan favorite to a division rival? Even for a 1st?

BB had success due to his talents as HC / Personnel, along with the fact that RK learned his lesson when it came to groceries and wasn't going to make the same mistake. BB's (nearly) never wavering approach - this spot I need a guy who can do A,B and C. What? He's great at A, and great at F? We don't need him at F. Give me the guy who is solid at A, B and C.

BB had insane success due to TB - a sleeper talent that needed unlocking and landed in the absolute perfect spot.

And, of course one last fact - WE WERE HERE FOR IT! Does any of the above really matter?

Chevy said:

I see it more of the numbers not telling the whole story.

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Sorry but you can't cherry pick 9 years out of existence.

Chevy said:

2000 - no argument rebuild year.
(2001 - absolute fluke.)
2002 - What 2001 probably should have been, but now the org has more confidence than ever.
2008 - Crushing injury - both in talent and offensive flexibility, but damn if the backup once again held up his end.
2020/2021 - Rebuilding, some hope but a lot of it false. Huge transition from TB (and making up for the previous years' moves cap-wise).

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You're doing exactly what I said.... you are taking away all the bad years because reasons to make your point.

When the subject is "Belichick as HC without Brady" then we have a roughly 9 year sample. You are trying to cherry pick out 7 of those 9 years to make your point.

Since my point is not pro one or the other, but more an effort to read deeper, I think it makes sense to look at each season.

I take away nothing. Yes, the numbers are not good. The why behind them, however, is something far more.

XLIX said:

Sorry but you can't cherry pick 9 years out of existence.

You're doing exactly what I said.... you are taking away all the bad years because reasons to make your point.

When the subject is "Belichick as HC without Brady" then we have a roughly 9 year sample. You are trying to cherry pick out 7 of those 9 years to make your point.

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It's funny how much you want to ignore context. In those 9 years without Brady, he's had no other star QBs. In Cleveland, it was an aging Kosar and Testeverde. Heck, the QB situation there was so bad Belichick even brought in Phil Simms for a visit. And in NE, it was one year each of Bledsoe, Cassel, Cam, and Mac. Give him a decent QB and he'll work wonders. Belichick would have won multiple super bowls (3-4) with Peyton, Mahomes, Rodgers, etc. It's not like Brady would have been the only QB who would have been successful here.

MAC10 said:

It's funny how much you want to ignore context. In those 9 years without Brady, he's had no other star QBs. In Cleveland, it was an aging Kosar and Testeverde. Heck, the QB situation there was so bad Belichick even brought in Phil Simms for a visit. And in NE, it was one year each of Bledsoe, Cassel, Cam, and Mac. Give him a decent QB and he'll work wonders. Belichick would have won multiple super bowls (3-4) with Peyton, Mahomes, Rodgers, etc. It's not like Brady would have been the only QB who would have been successful here.

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There’s no way to know how successful BB would be with any of those other guys. I’m skeptical they would’ve been nearly as coachable as Brady was over the years.

No need to make excuses for Bill. His record in Cleveland is part of his legacy as is his record with Brady, one era doesn’t count more than the other. He is not nearly as successful without Brady and doubtful he would have been if he never had Brady even by his own admission - but that doesn’t make him a bad coach or lessen his legacy. He is just a coach though. Great players can carry coaches a lot further than the other way around. Belichick carried a bad 2020 Patriots team to 7-9. That’s the best he could do with that group. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell who had a .300 coaching record in college to a Super Bowl.

sb1 said:

There’s no way to know how successful BB would be with any of those other guys. I’m skeptical they would’ve been nearly as coachable as Brady was over the years.

No need to make excuses for Bill. His record in Cleveland is part of his legacy as is his record with Brady, one era doesn’t count more than the other. He is not nearly as successful without Brady and doubtful he would have been if he never had Brady even by his own admission - but that doesn’t make him a bad coach or lessen his legacy. He is just a coach though. Great players can carry coaches a lot further than the other way around. Belichick carried a bad 2020 Patriots team to 7-9. That’s the best he could do with that group. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell who had a .300 coaching record in college to a Super Bowl.

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And it's very clear that Brady in his old age cannot play at an elite level without super star players around him. This was proven from 2018-2019 when Bill and the D carried the offense. Then all of a sudden Brady goes to Tampa and Evans, Godwin, Brown, Gronk, and Fournette propped him up so that his stats look good. Once two of those pieces were not there last year, the offense sputtered for most of the game against the Rams (that is, until LAR started fumbling and the momentum shifted). He'd be a 25-30 TD guy without them at his age....which is ok, but nothing to write home about.