Content Post Season Thoughts & Going Forward

• 2009
  • I thought at the start of the season this year would either be 2009 or 2010 in terms of the rebuild. For awhile I bought in like everyone else and thought this team was way ahead of that. I'm not bitter about being wrong. People act like believing in your team and being let down is sinful. I'd rather that than be a cynical sports radio jockey.
  • I thought going in they would be a 9-12 win team with 9 being everything went wrong and 12 everything went right .So 10 was an expected outcome. I was hopeful 10 would be enough to get MJ10 some playoff reps. He got them and honestly I don't lay last night on him at all. If anything I'm more hopeful. He was one of the players who fought to the end. He played well in the cold. The Agholor throw if it's a foot further and to the inside it's a gem in 5 degree temps.
• 2010
  • Patriots added McCorty, Gronk, Hernandez, Spikes, Dederick, Mesko and Larsen. All contributed for multiple seasons. That's a haul. They need this type of draft. Even with that this team overachieved and wasn't as good as it's record. The defense was still a mess.
• 2011
  • Solder, Vereen and Ridley
• 2012
  • Jones, Hightower and Ebner.
• 2013
  • Collins, Harmon and Ryan
• 2014
  • Garoppolo, Stork, White and Flemming
• Expectations
  • I bring this up to remind everyone the last decade wasn't built in a year. It took years even with the Goat and he covered up for so much that was wrong with those teams.
• Offense
  • QB
    • I think Jones is the real deal and will only get better. I think people expecting Brady ever nevermind out of the gate are ridiculous. Go talk to Felger and enjoy the misery.
  • RB
    • Harris and Stevenson are legit. Stevenson needs to improve as a pass blocker. I'll be interested to see if he can also improve as a receiver. If you're able to run play action with that beast along with getting him involved more in the screen game and passing game overall it's a huge plus.
    • Johnson needs to improve his hands and get rid of the mental mistakes.
    • No idea if James White will be able to return but regardless they need the next guy in the Faulk/Vereen/White legacy. Thank you Brandon Bolden you were not the issue but on the other hand you're also not the long term solution.
    • JJ Taylor. I thought this guy would play a more major role. At this point he's a JAG.
  • OL
    • They need a LT who can stay on the field. This unit was so up and down. Part of it was never having the same cast of characters week to week. They weren't physical enough the last quarter of the season.
  • WR
    • Bourne and Meyers showed me a lot last night and really all season. The problem is they're really complimentary pieces. If those are you're 3rd and 4th receivers not 1st and 2nd you're in business. Good bye everyone else.
  • TE
    • What a disappointment. Henry wasn't bad but for what they're paying him. It also doesn't help that he and Meyers occupy the same field space and neither is a JE11 or DA who can get open in an instant. Smith and his contract, UGGGG. Hands of Dwayne Allen.
• Defense
  • Interior DL
    • Barmore needs to get better against the run and improve his gap discipline and more than anything get stronger. But he's a rookie and I think his ceiling is high.
    • Everyone else can go. Not physical enough, not stout enough, just not enough.
  • Exterior DL
    • I hope it comes out that Judon was hurt or something. He was not the same player the last quarter of the season.
    • Did anybody else make a play the last month or two? Winovich, Uche, Wise.........awful.
  • LB
    • Bill needs to finally get onboard that with the modern offensive skill positions being so freaking fast you need speed.
    • Van Noy can be a bridge player.
    • Bentley really needs to be a short yardage LB.
    • Thank you for everything Donta but it's time. Amazing career. We don't win any of those 3 SBs without your contributions.
  • CB
    • JCJ is a top 5 CB. Is he a true shutdown? Other than Ramsey is there a true shutdown? Lattimore and Ramsey get away with a lot of holding and hand checking down the field to play their style. Howard is the other guy who I might put ahead of him and he's a cleaner player. So do you pay him 20M/year? I think you have to but I'm not sure Bill will. I predict a franchise tag and then they'll draft a replacement.
    • Mills was OK in zone. If they want to go back to more man coverage they need a guy to pair with JCJ
    • Jonathan Jones please get healthy you were missed.
    • Williams. The Pats need to stop saying speed is overrated. Harry and Williams are just the latest examples.
  • S
    • DMC isn't what he once was but I'd have him back to run the defense. Losing both Hightower and DMC leaves a big leadership void and this team looked rudderless at the end.
    • Phillips plays a lot of roles well in this defense. Not any at an elite level but that's ok. Bill puts him in good matchups.
    • Dugger is only going to continue to improve.
  • Overall
    • When you make Devin Singletary look like Beast Mode because he's more physical than your entire defense..........
  • Special Teams
    • You spend more than any team on STs and that's the product? WTF?
    • ST Coach bye.
    • I know Slater made the pro bowl and All Pro but it was a reputation vote.
    • Bailey was not good this year. Time for some camp competition.
    • Folk. My apologies. I was wrong. You have become a top notch kicker and clutch.
• The game last night.
  • Bills were clearly the more talented team.
  • The Bills were clearly the more physical team on both sides of the ball. I did not see that coming. Disgracful.
  • MJ10, Bourne, Stevenson, Harris and a few others thank you for showing up. Nobody else did.
  • I have to say I like Josh Allen. I like his grit. I like that he went over to talk to MJ10. That was classy. I honestly would not be upset if the Bills won the SB. They aren't my first pick but after TB, Tenn and Cincinnati I'd put them next. I'm probably in the vast minority on the board especially this morning but having lived though eating Shula's crap for years I can relate to breaking throw and just tip my cap to that team and fanbase.
• Future
  • I would look into Calvin Ridley. I know he and MJ didn't play together but you look at Burrow/Chase, Hurts/Smith and Tua/Waddle and those combinations from college work. If he gets his head right you're getting an elite talent for less than a first rounder.
  • I know people will probably advocate for a first round WR again for the Pats. I don't want that. I don't trust them to get it right. I'd rather they take a bunch of late round picks and use them on small school guys with elite small space quickness. JE11, AB, DA, Joe Horn, Tyrek Hill, just to name a few were not high draft picks. Trade down and acquire a half dozen picks in the later rounds and if you hit on a couple it's better than wasting a first rounder on Harry. Better 4 wasted late rounders.
  • There was a thread about the coordinators and their being predictable. I agree with it. I think the Pats need to get faster on both sides of the ball and diversify how they're calling plays. Obvously they were handcuffed by the lack of talent but to quote Bill we need to coach better, play better and excute better. The unforced errors on this team we haven't seen since Pete the Poodle era.
• Who's left and who I want.
  • Tampa -Always rooting for the Goat.
  • Titans - Love to see Vrabel get one as a coach.
  • Bengals - I really like Burrow. Also love to see a new franchise get through.
  • Bills - NFC East is the only division where every team has won one. It also makes the Jets even more distantly the biggest joke. I like Allen.
  • SF - Prove me wrong JG.
  • Arizona - Go Cliff.
  • Rams - I'd love Stafford to prove me wrong. I think he's a good guy who has been through a lot.
  • Eagles - Only this high because of other teams having bigger reasons. Hate their fans.
  • KC - I acutaly like Mahomes. Hate their fans. Don't want the talk about him being the Goat.
  • GB - Not a Rodgers fan. The Goat talk will be awful when he's been a choke bag most of his career.
  • Dallas - No thanks on joining the 6 ring club.
  • Pittsburgh - Not that they have a chance but no thanks on the stairway to 7.

everlong said:

• 2009
  • I thought at the start of the season this year would either be 2009 or 2010 in terms of the rebuild. For awhile I bought in like everyone else and thought this team was way ahead of that. I'm not bitter about being wrong. People act like believing in your team and being let down is sinful. I'd rather that than be a cynical sports radio jockey.
  • I thought going in they would be a 9-12 win team with 9 being everything went wrong and 12 everything went right .So 10 was an expected outcome. I was hopeful 10 would be enough to get MJ10 some playoff reps. He got them and honestly I don't lay last night on him at all. If anything I'm more hopeful. He was one of the players who fought to the end. He played well in the cold. The Agholor throw if it's a foot further and to the inside it's a gem in 5 degree temps.
• 2010
  • Patriots added McCorty, Gronk, Hernandez, Spikes, Dederick, Mesko and Larsen. All contributed for multiple seasons. That's a haul. They need this type of draft. Even with that this team overachieved and wasn't as good as it's record. The defense was still a mess.
• 2011
  • Solder, Vereen and Ridley
• 2012
  • Jones, Hightower and Ebner.
• 2013
  • Collins, Harmon and Ryan
• 2014
  • Garoppolo, Stork, White and Flemming
• Expectations
  • I bring this up to remind everyone the last decade wasn't built in a year. It took years even with the Goat and he covered up for so much that was wrong with those teams.
• Offense
  • QB
    • I think Jones is the real deal and will only get better. I think people expecting Brady ever nevermind out of the gate are ridiculous. Go talk to Felger and enjoy the misery.
  • RB
    • Harris and Stevenson are legit. Stevenson needs to improve as a pass blocker. I'll be interested to see if he can also improve as a receiver. If you're able to run play action with that beast along with getting him involved more in the screen game and passing game overall it's a huge plus.
    • Johnson needs to improve his hands and get rid of the mental mistakes.
    • No idea if James White will be able to return but regardless they need the next guy in the Faulk/Vereen/White legacy. Thank you Brandon Bolden you were not the issue but on the other hand you're also not the long term solution.
    • JJ Taylor. I thought this guy would play a more major role. At this point he's a JAG.
  • OL
    • They need a LT who can stay on the field. This unit was so up and down. Part of it was never having the same cast of characters week to week. They weren't physical enough the last quarter of the season.
  • WR
    • Bourne and Meyers showed me a lot last night and really all season. The problem is they're really complimentary pieces. If those are you're 3rd and 4th receivers not 1st and 2nd you're in business. Good bye everyone else.
  • TE
    • What a disappointment. Henry wasn't bad but for what they're paying him. It also doesn't help that he and Meyers occupy the same field space and neither is a JE11 or DA who can get open in an instant. Smith and his contract, UGGGG. Hands of Dwayne Allen.
• Defense
  • Interior DL
    • Barmore needs to get better against the run and improve his gap discipline and more than anything get stronger. But he's a rookie and I think his ceiling is high.
    • Everyone else can go. Not physical enough, not stout enough, just not enough.
  • Exterior DL
    • I hope it comes out that Judon was hurt or something. He was not the same player the last quarter of the season.
    • Did anybody else make a play the last month or two? Winovich, Uche, Wise.........awful.
  • LB
    • Bill needs to finally get onboard that with the modern offensive skill positions being so freaking fast you need speed.
    • Van Noy can be a bridge player.
    • Bentley really needs to be a short yardage LB.
    • Thank you for everything Donta but it's time. Amazing career. We don't win any of those 3 SBs without your contributions.
  • CB
    • JCJ is a top 5 CB. Is he a true shutdown? Other than Ramsey is there a true shutdown? Lattimore and Ramsey get away with a lot of holding and hand checking down the field to play their style. Howard is the other guy who I might put ahead of him and he's a cleaner player. So do you pay him 20M/year? I think you have to but I'm not sure Bill will. I predict a franchise tag and then they'll draft a replacement.
    • Mills was OK in zone. If they want to go back to more man coverage they need a guy to pair with JCJ
    • Jonathan Jones please get healthy you were missed.
    • Williams. The Pats need to stop saying speed is overrated. Harry and Williams are just the latest examples.
  • S
    • DMC isn't what he once was but I'd have him back to run the defense. Losing both Hightower and DMC leaves a big leadership void and this team looked rudderless at the end.
    • Phillips plays a lot of roles well in this defense. Not any at an elite level but that's ok. Bill puts him in good matchups.
    • Dugger is only going to continue to improve.
  • Overall
    • When you make Devin Singletary look like Beast Mode because he's more physical than your entire defense..........
  • Special Teams
    • You spend more than any team on STs and that's the product? WTF?
    • ST Coach bye.
    • I know Slater made the pro bowl and All Pro but it was a reputation vote.
    • Bailey was not good this year. Time for some camp competition.
    • Folk. My apologies. I was wrong. You have become a top notch kicker and clutch.
• The game last night.
  • Bills were clearly the more talented team.
  • The Bills were clearly the more physical team on both sides of the ball. I did not see that coming. Disgracful.
  • MJ10, Bourne, Stevenson, Harris and a few others thank you for showing up. Nobody else did.
  • I have to say I like Josh Allen. I like his grit. I like that he went over to talk to MJ10. That was classy. I honestly would not be upset if the Bills won the SB. They aren't my first pick but after TB, Tenn and Cincinnati I'd put them next. I'm probably in the vast minority on the board especially this morning but having lived though eating Shula's crap for years I can relate to breaking throw and just tip my cap to that team and fanbase.
• Future
  • I would look into Calvin Ridley. I know he and MJ didn't play together but you look at Burrow/Chase, Hurts/Smith and Tua/Waddle and those combinations from college work. If he gets his head right you're getting an elite talent for less than a first rounder.
  • I know people will probably advocate for a first round WR again for the Pats. I don't want that. I don't trust them to get it right. I'd rather they take a bunch of late round picks and use them on small school guys with elite small space quickness. JE11, AB, DA, Joe Horn, Tyrek Hill, just to name a few were not high draft picks. Trade down and acquire a half dozen picks in the later rounds and if you hit on a couple it's better than wasting a first rounder on Harry. Better 4 wasted late rounders.
  • There was a thread about the coordinators and their being predictable. I agree with it. I think the Pats need to get faster on both sides of the ball and diversify how they're calling plays. Obvously they were handcuffed by the lack of talent but to quote Bill we need to coach better, play better and excute better. The unforced errors on this team we haven't seen since Pete the Poodle era.
• Who's left and who I want.
  • Tampa -Always rooting for the Goat.
  • Titans - Love to see Vrabel get one as a coach.
  • Bengals - I really like Burrow. Also love to see a new franchise get through.
  • Bills - NFC East is the only division where every team has won one. It also makes the Jets even more distantly the biggest joke. I like Allen.
  • SF - Prove me wrong JG.
  • Arizona - Go Cliff.
  • Rams - I'd love Stafford to prove me wrong. I think he's a good guy who has been through a lot.
  • Eagles - Only this high because of other teams having bigger reasons. Hate their fans.
  • KC - I acutaly like Mahomes. Hate their fans. Don't want the talk about him being the Goat.
  • GB - Not a Rodgers fan. The Goat talk will be awful when he's been a choke bag most of his career.
  • Dallas - No thanks on joining the 6 ring club.
  • Pittsburgh - Not that they have a chance but no thanks on the stairway to 7.

Click to expand...

everlong said:

• 2009
  • I thought at the start of the season this year would either be 2009 or 2010 in terms of the rebuild. For awhile I bought in like everyone else and thought this team was way ahead of that. I'm not bitter about being wrong. People act like believing in your team and being let down is sinful. I'd rather that than be a cynical sports radio jockey.
  • I thought going in they would be a 9-12 win team with 9 being everything went wrong and 12 everything went right .So 10 was an expected outcome. I was hopeful 10 would be enough to get MJ10 some playoff reps. He got them and honestly I don't lay last night on him at all. If anything I'm more hopeful. He was one of the players who fought to the end. He played well in the cold. The Agholor throw if it's a foot further and to the inside it's a gem in 5 degree temps.
• 2010
  • Patriots added McCorty, Gronk, Hernandez, Spikes, Dederick, Mesko and Larsen. All contributed for multiple seasons. That's a haul. They need this type of draft. Even with that this team overachieved and wasn't as good as it's record. The defense was still a mess.
• 2011
  • Solder, Vereen and Ridley
• 2012
  • Jones, Hightower and Ebner.
• 2013
  • Collins, Harmon and Ryan
• 2014
  • Garoppolo, Stork, White and Flemming
• Expectations
  • I bring this up to remind everyone the last decade wasn't built in a year. It took years even with the Goat and he covered up for so much that was wrong with those teams.
• Offense
  • QB
    • I think Jones is the real deal and will only get better. I think people expecting Brady ever nevermind out of the gate are ridiculous. Go talk to Felger and enjoy the misery.
  • RB
    • Harris and Stevenson are legit. Stevenson needs to improve as a pass blocker. I'll be interested to see if he can also improve as a receiver. If you're able to run play action with that beast along with getting him involved more in the screen game and passing game overall it's a huge plus.
    • Johnson needs to improve his hands and get rid of the mental mistakes.
    • No idea if James White will be able to return but regardless they need the next guy in the Faulk/Vereen/White legacy. Thank you Brandon Bolden you were not the issue but on the other hand you're also not the long term solution.
    • JJ Taylor. I thought this guy would play a more major role. At this point he's a JAG.
  • OL
    • They need a LT who can stay on the field. This unit was so up and down. Part of it was never having the same cast of characters week to week. They weren't physical enough the last quarter of the season.
  • WR
    • Bourne and Meyers showed me a lot last night and really all season. The problem is they're really complimentary pieces. If those are you're 3rd and 4th receivers not 1st and 2nd you're in business. Good bye everyone else.
  • TE
    • What a disappointment. Henry wasn't bad but for what they're paying him. It also doesn't help that he and Meyers occupy the same field space and neither is a JE11 or DA who can get open in an instant. Smith and his contract, UGGGG. Hands of Dwayne Allen.
• Defense
  • Interior DL
    • Barmore needs to get better against the run and improve his gap discipline and more than anything get stronger. But he's a rookie and I think his ceiling is high.
    • Everyone else can go. Not physical enough, not stout enough, just not enough.
  • Exterior DL
    • I hope it comes out that Judon was hurt or something. He was not the same player the last quarter of the season.
    • Did anybody else make a play the last month or two? Winovich, Uche, Wise.........awful.
  • LB
    • Bill needs to finally get onboard that with the modern offensive skill positions being so freaking fast you need speed.
    • Van Noy can be a bridge player.
    • Bentley really needs to be a short yardage LB.
    • Thank you for everything Donta but it's time. Amazing career. We don't win any of those 3 SBs without your contributions.
  • CB
    • JCJ is a top 5 CB. Is he a true shutdown? Other than Ramsey is there a true shutdown? Lattimore and Ramsey get away with a lot of holding and hand checking down the field to play their style. Howard is the other guy who I might put ahead of him and he's a cleaner player. So do you pay him 20M/year? I think you have to but I'm not sure Bill will. I predict a franchise tag and then they'll draft a replacement.
    • Mills was OK in zone. If they want to go back to more man coverage they need a guy to pair with JCJ
    • Jonathan Jones please get healthy you were missed.
    • Williams. The Pats need to stop saying speed is overrated. Harry and Williams are just the latest examples.
  • S
    • DMC isn't what he once was but I'd have him back to run the defense. Losing both Hightower and DMC leaves a big leadership void and this team looked rudderless at the end.
    • Phillips plays a lot of roles well in this defense. Not any at an elite level but that's ok. Bill puts him in good matchups.
    • Dugger is only going to continue to improve.
  • Overall
    • When you make Devin Singletary look like Beast Mode because he's more physical than your entire defense..........
  • Special Teams
    • You spend more than any team on STs and that's the product? WTF?
    • ST Coach bye.
    • I know Slater made the pro bowl and All Pro but it was a reputation vote.
    • Bailey was not good this year. Time for some camp competition.
    • Folk. My apologies. I was wrong. You have become a top notch kicker and clutch.
• The game last night.
  • Bills were clearly the more talented team.
  • The Bills were clearly the more physical team on both sides of the ball. I did not see that coming. Disgracful.
  • MJ10, Bourne, Stevenson, Harris and a few others thank you for showing up. Nobody else did.
  • I have to say I like Josh Allen. I like his grit. I like that he went over to talk to MJ10. That was classy. I honestly would not be upset if the Bills won the SB. They aren't my first pick but after TB, Tenn and Cincinnati I'd put them next. I'm probably in the vast minority on the board especially this morning but having lived though eating Shula's crap for years I can relate to breaking throw and just tip my cap to that team and fanbase.
• Future
  • I would look into Calvin Ridley. I know he and MJ didn't play together but you look at Burrow/Chase, Hurts/Smith and Tua/Waddle and those combinations from college work. If he gets his head right you're getting an elite talent for less than a first rounder.
  • I know people will probably advocate for a first round WR again for the Pats. I don't want that. I don't trust them to get it right. I'd rather they take a bunch of late round picks and use them on small school guys with elite small space quickness. JE11, AB, DA, Joe Horn, Tyrek Hill, just to name a few were not high draft picks. Trade down and acquire a half dozen picks in the later rounds and if you hit on a couple it's better than wasting a first rounder on Harry. Better 4 wasted late rounders.
  • There was a thread about the coordinators and their being predictable. I agree with it. I think the Pats need to get faster on both sides of the ball and diversify how they're calling plays. Obvously they were handcuffed by the lack of talent but to quote Bill we need to coach better, play better and excute better. The unforced errors on this team we haven't seen since Pete the Poodle era.
• Who's left and who I want.
  • Tampa -Always rooting for the Goat.
  • Titans - Love to see Vrabel get one as a coach.
  • Bengals - I really like Burrow. Also love to see a new franchise get through.
  • Bills - NFC East is the only division where every team has won one. It also makes the Jets even more distantly the biggest joke. I like Allen.
  • SF - Prove me wrong JG.
  • Arizona - Go Cliff.
  • Rams - I'd love Stafford to prove me wrong. I think he's a good guy who has been through a lot.
  • Eagles - Only this high because of other teams having bigger reasons. Hate their fans.
  • KC - I acutaly like Mahomes. Hate their fans. Don't want the talk about him being the Goat.
  • GB - Not a Rodgers fan. The Goat talk will be awful when he's been a choke bag most of his career.
  • Dallas - No thanks on joining the 6 ring club.
  • Pittsburgh - Not that they have a chance but no thanks on the stairway to 7.

Click to expand...

Brotherblues said:

Like most of it. Nitpick on Ridley though. Mental toughness is important. Need guys who can keep it together when the going gets tough. Not sure what his issue is and I wish him the best but I'd pass at this point in the rebuild.

Click to expand...

Vindicate said:

What do we think led to the underperformance of ST'ers? Where do we think it looked the worst? On returns or kickoffs? Punts? FG unit is solid.

Curious as to why people think JC Jackson isn't coming back. I would think that maybe Bill will do what he can to keep Jackson. Without Jackson, we have a bad secondary. We have bad LB's and a bad bad bad run defense, which indicts the front 7 as well. Cutting Jackson would have this looking really, really bad. Suddenly we're putting things in Jones' back, more than he has proven to handle (which, most QB's would have a hard time with that)

If we keep Jackson, we have Jones coming back, and we have Duggar coming back.

But this is all off the cuff. So where am I wrong? Genuinely asking.

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pazrul72 said:

In regards to JC I think Bill has a number in mind that is a fair but not a market setting contract. Something like 4 years 18 mil per or 5 years 19 mil per with 40 million or so guaranteed. Now what happens if a desperate CB needy team comes in with a 20-22 million per season contract with 60 million guaranteed? I don't think that's super far fetched and I wouldn't blame JC for taking it. I wouldn't go that high but by stats JC is a top 3 CB and is going to get paid. I just hope he is willing to take a very good deal not a market setting one cuz if all he cares about is the highest contract possible he is gone.

Click to expand...

pazrul72 said:

In regards to JC I think Bill has a number in mind that is a fair but not a market setting contract. Something like 4 years 18 mil per or 5 years 19 mil per with 40 million or so guaranteed. Now what happens if a desperate CB needy team comes in with a 20-22 million per season contract with 60 million guaranteed? I don't think that's super far fetched and I wouldn't blame JC for taking it. I wouldn't go that high but by stats JC is a top 3 CB and is going to get paid. I just hope he is willing to take a very good deal not a market setting one cuz if all he cares about is the highest contract possible he is gone.

Click to expand...