Why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm?

Hey all. Yesterday I send a question in to Patriots Playbook on Patriots.com



If you don't want to watch the video my question is basically why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm? I'm not a master talent evaluator by any means but he seems to be able to throw the ball down the field.

I'm just wondering where this comes from, like what is the actual evidence his arm is weaker than his peers? The Eye test? or are there some actual metrics I haven't seen. Just trying to learn more about the game and the position.

Thanks everyone!

Theres an unofficial combine metric called "Ball Velocity" that is the closest thing we have to empirical evidence in this area. Unfortunately, there was no combine in 2021, so we don't have the numbers for Mac. Based on the eye test alone, he definitely seems to throw it slower than average for the NFL level. That doesn't necessarily mean he has a weak arm though.

Mac Jones does not have a bad arm.

1. Mac actually had one of (if not the best) deep balls in all of college football last year. And it wasn't because of his receivers. He has pinpoint accuracy, excellent timing and anticipation, and also throws a very catchable ball with touch like Montana did. He can throw it anywhere down the field 50 yards.

2. The Patriots OLine was absolute crap the first 6 weeks. Idiots on the offensive staff thought it was OK to repeatedly start Durant or Herron at RT, Wynn played terribly the first month, and keeping Onwenu at LG and benching Karras for 6 weeks was a huge mistake.

3. It is impossible for anyone to look good on 20+ yard throws when you only had 2 seconds to throw the ball and were constantly getting wrecked with league-leading numbers of QB hits the first 6 weeks.

4. In a major coincidence, after fixing the OLine with Onwenu at RT and Karras at LG, Mac has thrown multiple beautiful balls and long TD throws the last 2 consecutive weeks. Mac did not magically become better. And he certaintly didn't get good coaching. It was all because the OLine didn't suck anymore.

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DropKickFlutie said:

Mac Jones does not have a bad arm.

1. Mac actually had one of (if not the best) deep ball in all of college football last year. And it wasn't because of his receivers. He has pinpoint accuracy, excellent timing and anticipation, and also throws a very catchable ball with touch like Montana did.

2. The OLine was absolute crap the first 6 weeks. Idiots on the offensive staff thought it was OK to repeatedly start Durant or Herron at RT, Wynn played terribly the first month, and keeping Onwenu at LG and benching Karras for 6 weeks was a huge mistake.

3. It is impossible for anyone to look good on 20+ yard throws when you only had 2 seconds to throw the ball and were constantly getting wrecked with league-leading numbers of QB hits the first 6 weeks.

4. In a major coincidence, after fixing the OLine with Onwenu at RT and Karras at LG, Mac has thrown multiple beautiful balls and long TD throws the last 2 consecutive weeks. Mac did not magically become better. And he certaintly didn't get good coaching. It was all because the OLine didn't suck anymore.

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Mac does throw a beautiful deep ball. The "weak" arm critique comes from a lack of velocity on intermediate throws. I think there's some validity there, but I've also seen him add a little zip when necessary. Overall, I can only recall one throw that got knocked down that I thought would have been a completion if there was more velocity on it.

NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

Hey all. Yesterday I send a question in to Patriots Playbook on Patriots.com



If you don't want to watch the video my question is basically why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm? I'm not a master talent evaluator by any means but he seems to be able to throw the ball down the field.

I'm just wondering where this comes from, like what is the actual evidence his arm is weaker than his peers? The Eye test? or are there some actual metrics I haven't seen. Just trying to learn more about the game and the position.

Thanks everyone!

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Because the ball doesn't come out of his hand like a bullet. That apparently is an important metric for scouts, never mind that most gunslingers retire without winning a Lombardi. The strongest arm reportedly belonged to Jamarcus Russell, Dan Pastorini, and Greg Cook- all of them could sling it past 80 yards, and all of them are forgotten.

Because I'm a huge nerd I actually took Mac's 75 yard TD throw to Bourne vs. Dallas and broke it down vs other 75~ yard touchdown passes. on Reddit.



Now, I forgot to incorporate lateral movement of the ball so the numbers are a bit off, but I found that Mac's ball travelled at about the same speed as the most well regarded QBs in the league. Mahomes, Allen and Brady.

So out of 4 comparisons with the greats of today's game Mac is significantly faster than two, slightly slower than one and significantly slower than another one. Now of course this is just one throw and 4 comparisons so the sample size is small. I just wanted to see what the results would be like if I applied science as opposed to the "eye test."

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Lamar Jackson can throw a laser down the field. Lamar Jackson also cannot throw a bubble screen with any accuracy. He cannot throw a lob in the flat to a RB in stride.

Pure arm strength is highly overrated.

Why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm?​

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Because his arm's not as strong as a lot of other QBs, including those taken ahead of him this past draft. Let's not overthink this.

Mac's arm is NFL caliber even if it's not elite. He's not the only QB playing today in that category.

He's got a lot of career ahead of him and lots of time to improve it which I'm sure he will.

NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

Hey all. Yesterday I send a question in to Patriots Playbook on Patriots.com



If you don't want to watch the video my question is basically why do people say Mac Jones has a weak arm? I'm not a master talent evaluator by any means but he seems to be able to throw the ball down the field.

I'm just wondering where this comes from, like what is the actual evidence his arm is weaker than his peers? The Eye test? or are there some actual metrics I haven't seen. Just trying to learn more about the game and the position.

Thanks everyone!

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Because Mac focuses more on touch than zip. He doesn't try to laser a ball in there that doesn't need to be lasered in. If it's a tight windown, I've seen him throw it on a rope. The other thing is that he probably can't run one direction then throw across the grain to a point downfield. But, that was never his game anyway. When it come to sitting in the pocket and passing, his ball is as good and fast as anyone's when he wants it to be.

Hard to judge when his pass protection has been erratic this year...

Good analysis, but there are more factors to consider:

- The lateral movement of the ball as you mentioned above.

- The arc of the ball.

- Wind or any inclement weather that could affect the ball including temperatures deflating balls as we all know very well.

- Whether a QB had his platform set up prior to releasing the ball...like for example there are some guys that can throw 70 yards down the field off the back of their foot just by flicking their wrists...whereas others have to plant both feet to increase velocity.

- I think a good measure would be a skills competition...one to launch the ball as far as you can throw it (Mahomes was able to throw the ball out of Arrowhead...) and another to throw LASERS at moving targets like at an arcade shooting gallery....

Deus Irae said:

Because his arm's not as strong as a lot of other QBs, including those taken ahead of him this past draft. Let's not overthink this.

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Ok, but based on WHAT though. That's what I'm asking. Like have you seen some film that shows him consistently throwing without strength? Or do you have some stats about how much weight he can curl with his arm? Are you just saying so because of your personal eye test?

I'm not being a douche, I'm genuinely curious where this comes from. Because I've heard people say it all over but I've never actually seen the evidence as to why.

Hyped said:

Good analysis, but there are more factors to consider:

- The lateral movement of the ball as you mentioned above.

- The arc of the ball.

- Wind or any inclement weather that could affect the ball including temperatures deflating balls as we all know very well.

- Whether a QB had his platform set up prior to releasing the ball...like for example there are some guys that can throw 70 yards down the field off the back of their foot just by flicking their wrists...whereas others have to plant both feet to increase velocity.

- I think a good measure would be a skills competition...one to launch the ball as far as you can throw it (Mahomes was able to throw the ball out of Arrowhead...) and another to throw LASERS at moving targets like at an arcade shooting gallery....

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That's exactly the kind of competition Mac beat Trevor in coming out of highschool:

NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

Ok, but based on WHAT though. That's what I'm asking. Like have you seen some film that shows him consistently throwing without strength? Or do you have some stats about how much weight he can curl with his arm? Are you just saying so because of your personal eye test?

I'm not being a douche, I'm genuinely curious where this comes from. Because I've heard people say it all over but I've never actually seen the evidence as to why.

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1.) Who is saying that his arm is weak?

2.) If they are saying it...it's based on the "eye test" for sure. As someone here alluded to...there wasn't a combine this year measuring ball velocity. And I don't recall anything from Bama's pro day either....

3.) Disclaimer: I hardly watch college ball and only saw Jones play 2 games last year.

Word is, at a high school party, he lost an arm wrestling match to Gumby.

Kasmir said:

That's exactly the kind of competition Mac beat Trevor in coming out of highschool:

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Interesting...looks like Mac's spiral has gotten a lot better since high school.

Hyped said:

1.) Who is saying that his arm is weak?

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Fake expert construction guys, for one. And also idiots in the media. And also mediocre oc's.

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NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

Ok, but based on WHAT though. That's what I'm asking. Like have you seen some film that shows him consistently throwing without strength? Or do you have some stats about how much weight he can curl with his arm? Are you just saying so because of your personal eye test?

I'm not being a douche, I'm genuinely curious where this comes from. Because I've heard people say it all over but I've never actually seen the evidence as to why.

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Based on him not having as strong an arm. Are you going to tell me that you've never compared people throwing a ball? I ask, because that would be informative as to how best to answer you.

There are different ways to demonstrate arm strength (velocity average, longest throw, etc...), and a smart comparison usually involves looking at more than one.

Deus Irae said:

Based on him not having as strong an arm. Are you going to tell me that you've never compared people throwing a ball?

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I hear you.

So many crappy QBs can throw it fast (see: Cam Newton). This is not relevant to whether a QB is good or not in the NFL. Mac can make all the throws (including 40 yards down the field) if the OLine does its job.

Reminds me of the hype if a NBA player can dunk really high or not. Does. Not. Matter.

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