Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

mosi · Oct 21, 2021

The lack of talent on this team reminds me a lot of the early 90's teams. Anybody remember Hart Lee Dykes?The fact that Brady won with this group is almost crazy unbelievable and really and truly highlights his greatness.

BB is a great coach. But coaches don't play and talent is talent. If this team wins half its games over the next 3-5 years I will be impressed.

Bradybranch · Oct 21, 2021

Deus Irae said:

so you don't think MAC is now/going to be a good QB? Will the pats not have been better off 2 years from now when MAC is a top 10 QB and Brady is done?

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

Deus Irae said:
Yeah,

I'm trying to keep Brady out of this as much as possible, but that poster was way off base. In Brady's entire NFL career, he's only had one season with fewer than 10 wins, and that was way back in 2002 (9-7). So the idea that Brady wouldn't be winning in New England today flies in the face of historical reality.

Winning a championship and winning are two different things. Winning a championship? I don't know...they were pretty hampered last year but I agree, Brady would have definitely probably gotten them at least 10 wins.

But the talent level certainly wasn't where it needed to be and I still don't understand that. And obviously so did Belichick when they paid a fortune this offseason to try and address it. At the same time, it would have been nice if we had done that (or something more than they did) heading into 2019, but "it is what it is".

amfootball · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
so you don't think MAC is now/going to be a good QB? Will the pats not have been better off 2 years from now when MAC is a top 10 QB and Brady is done?

I am not sure Bill is here in 2 years.

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

PatsDeb said:
The fact of the matter is, there was only one player on the roster who was irreplaceable, and BB let him walk, essentially by refusing to offer him a two year deal and making him want out. I thought it was unbelievably stupid, ridiculous, unacceptable, whatever you want to call it, at the time, and nothing that has happened in the two years since has changed my mind. We had no plan at QB last year and ended up with a has-been who didn't fit the system. This year we have a rookie who might be good in the future, but he (again, like Brady in his last year) has no really good players around him to help him through the growing pains. Meanwhile Brady hasn't missed a beat and looks better than ever, with some decent talent around him. Maybe BB couldn't keep it going much longer (but why not? We've spent to the top of the cap and we look like crap on both sides of the ball, at varying times), but keeping Brady should have been his priority. Instead the GOAT coach seems to have bought into too much of his own hype, and his "my way or the highway" approach, without Brady, has cost the NE Patriots big time.

I still fall under the umbrella of the people who feel they gave up on him too early and I'm not thrilled with how it ended. Although, again, without a 7-9 season, we don't end up with Jones, who appears to at least be a terrific long-term solution that given their past history of taking QBs, I never thought they'd get, at least not this quickly.

But yes, I hated seeing that go down but I enjoyed the distraction of rooting for the Bucs in February. I'm just thankful that they have someone who will get them back in contention.

sb1 · Oct 21, 2021

Ian said:
I still fall under the umbrella of the people who feel they gave up on him too early and I'm not thrilled with how it ended. Although, again, without a 7-9 season, we don't end up with Jones, who appears to at least be a terrific long-term solution that given their past history of taking QBs, I never thought they'd get, at least not this quickly.

But yes, I hated seeing that go down but I enjoyed the distraction of rooting for the Bucs in February. I'm just thankful that they have someone who will get them back in contention.

Been a really long time since I was as engaged in the NFL playoffs after a Pats elimination as I was last year. It was fun.

sb1 · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
so you don't think MAC is now/going to be a good QB? Will the pats not have been better off 2 years from now when MAC is a top 10 QB and Brady is done?

We don't know how good Mac is going to be. For all we know Mac could be Andy Dalton 2.0. I'm not sure I'm ready to say he will be a top 10 QB in the league especially in 2 years.

Finding a great QB is REALLY hard.

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

sb1 said:
Been a really long time since I was as engaged in the NFL playoffs after a Pats elimination as I was last year. It was fun.

I liked not having the stress of worrying about who won. I tried not to get too invested in Brady until right toward the end because I've always been worried about his legacy getting tarnished. Obviously, I was glad that didn't happen.

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

sb1 said:
We don't know how good Mac is going to be. For all we know Mac could be Andy Dalton 2.0. I'm not sure I'm ready to say he will be a top 10 QB in the league especially in 2 years.

I don't know...Mac doesn't make bizarre decisions in key moments, or at least he hasn't so far. And I agree, we're six games in, so it's a little early to judge but I've seen enough so far to feel optimistic that he'll hopefully grow as the season goes on.

Deus Irae · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
so you don't think MAC is now/going to be a good QB? Will the pats not have been better off 2 years from now when MAC is a top 10 QB and Brady is done?

I don't pretend to have even an idea of what Mac is going to be. Tell me about his arm strength in 3 years, and whether he's even still alive behind this OL, and I'll take a guess at it. The reality is that his short field accuracy isn't likely to improve all that much (he's already at a high percentage there, so the room for improvement is not as great), so the improvement has to come from the deeper game.

But Mac's not Brady, and he's not likely ever to be Brady. Mac's also not currently a top level QB, or viewed as a likely future elite QB, and you don't win consistently in today's NFL unless you've got that guy.

sb1 · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
WRONG WRONG WRONG. Brady wouldn't be winning here, and now instead the Pats have the found their QB, putting them ahead of schedule in terms of being a contender in the near future, and a long time after that.

Pats MAY have found their QB. It's not a sure thing yet. We don't know right now and probably won't for a while.

How do you know Brady wouldn't be winning here?

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

sb1 said:
Pats MAY have found their QB. It's not a sure thing yet. We don't know right now and probably won't for a while.

How do you know Brady wouldn't be winning here?

He would be winning, but I'm sure like 2019, it would be a grind. Although, LOL, no one would care. We wouldn't be 2-4 so the narrative, I'm guessing, would be pretty different right now.

Ian · Oct 21, 2021

Deus Irae said:
The reality is that his short field accuracy isn't likely to improve all that much (he's already at a high percentage there, so the room for improvement is not as great), so the improvement has to come from the deeper game.

Interesting note - he was 4/4 on all of his attempts of 15+ yards on Sunday. 2 to the left (Henry TD & Bourne TD), and 2 to the right (Agholor & Stevenson)

amfootball · Oct 21, 2021

Ian said:
Interesting note - he was 4/4 on all of his attempts of 15+ yards on Sunday. 2 to the left (Henry TD & Bourne TD), and 2 to the right (Agholor & Stevenson)

Plus the TD to Meyers that got called back for holding.

amfootball · Oct 21, 2021

Ice_Ice_Brady · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
Nah, I won't pardon you. Go sell your tickets for an extraordinarily greedy price because you don't want to see Brady and the Bucs blow out the Pats. How'd that workout for you?

Our team went down the tubes? Last year maybe. But now the Pats are rebuilding and trending in the right direction. Will stack up some wins this year and next year MAC will be in his 2nd season, team will be better, and will be a playoff team. Brady will be done in a couple years while the pats are in the playoffs.

You must be Team Bill’s first round pick. Welcome.

Pats1971 · Oct 21, 2021

Ian said:
He would be winning, but I'm sure like 2019, it would be a grind. Although, LOL, no one would care. We wouldn't be 2-4 so the narrative, I'm guessing, would be pretty different right now.

This is a much better team than 2019.

Pats1971 · Oct 21, 2021

Ian said:
I don't know...Mac doesn't make bizarre decisions in key moments, or at least he hasn't so far. And I agree, we're six games in, so it's a little early to judge by I've seen enough so far to feel optimistic that he'll hopefully grow as the season goes on.

He has not had to make those decisions. He is not being asked to do that yet. There will be a point though when he will need to be that guy.

PP2 · Oct 21, 2021

Ian said:
I still fall under the umbrella of the people who feel they gave up on him too early and I'm not thrilled with how it ended. Although, again, without a 7-9 season, we don't end up with Jones, who appears to at least be a terrific long-term solution that given their past history of taking QBs, I never thought they'd get, at least not this quickly.

But yes, I hated seeing that go down but I enjoyed the distraction of rooting for the Bucs in February. I'm just thankful that they have someone who will get them back in contention.

Funny how things just work out.

Pats1971 · Oct 21, 2021

Bradybranch said:
so you don't think MAC is now/going to be a good QB? Will the pats not have been better off 2 years from now when MAC is a top 10 QB and Brady is done?

You are assuming a whole bunch. Bill might not even be here in 2 years. This is not a rebuild, its a start over. This notion that in a couple years we will be rattling off superbowls is not how it works just because we had Brady for 20 years.

Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

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