OLine's 2-4 Record Crappiness Stabilized, 7 wins in a row now

DropKickFlutie · Sep 20, 2021

The Trickster said:
Agreed that coaching of the OL could very well be the problem.
The OC needs to be canned.

2 weeks in a row (not to mention last year) thinking Herron or Durant can play RT without killing the QB. Um, yes, there is culpability on the OC. Especially if people try to blame BB first.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 20, 2021

venecol said:
Marcus Cannon graded #5 in pass protection.

Wynn/Durant/Herron (#48/#50/#59).

Wow very bad for Wynn. That's surprising. Kick Wynn inside to left guard ??? Trent at LT and Onwenu at RT.

50-yard-line · Sep 20, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
The terrible OLine is giving Mac bad habits. If you see Mac continue to get happy feet, or his bravery changes and he starts skipping more passes, then this season was a disaster in creating bad habits for our rookie QB.

Herron and Durant suck. Not worth trying them and then swapping them out at halftime. A scrub is a scrub. They aren't going to magically get better at RT.

.

Massive overreaction.

Mac isn't getting killed, and he's getting hit mostly on stunts coming all the way around the line...while he's processing the field.

He's hitting 74%, ffs.

Jets haven't given up 300 yards two straight weeks. Their defense is young, mostly in the secondary, but they're not a bottom feeder there. Pats won the game going away. I'll take it. Both the Jets and the Dolphins worked to pressure the rookie. Didn't work.

Herron was okay yesterday until he got hurt. Durant, who is really a guard, was exposed - but he was pretty good last week. Their starting RT and their backup, Cajuste (who looked far better than either Durant or Herron), were out. Could they use an upgrade there, and on the DL? Looks like it, but who's out there?

50-yard-line · Sep 20, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
Wow very bad for Wynn. That's surprising. Kick Wynn inside to left guard ??? Trent at LT and Onwenu at RT.

As has been pointed out, and as should be obvious, you build OL strength through continuity. Wynn has had a couple of bad weeks (the call on him yesterday looked ticky-tack), but he's the LT. Messing with the now, means three player - LT, LG, RT - will have different responsibilities. Is that a good idea?

patfanken · Sep 20, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
The terrible OLine is giving Mac bad habits. If you see Mac continue to get happy feet, or his bravery changes and he starts skipping more passes, then this season was a disaster in creating bad habits for our rookie QB.

Herron and Durant suck. Not worth trying them and then swapping them out at halftime. A scrub is a scrub. They aren't going to magically get better at RT.

.

Do you even WATCH the games or the replays after it? 2 of the 3 sacks were the direct result of a TE or RB missing a key block, and the 3rd was the result of a brilliant scheme that worked perfectly (those guys get paid too). Granted the OL hasn't lived up to their pre-season clippings, but you want to drastically wrench the line apart and throw away 2 months of work....on a whim of yours. Why if it were up to you, you would have pulled Brady after the first Miami game in 2001.

Do yourself a favor and watch the myriad of clips that show up on a lot threads, or order the all 22 for review, THEN we might take your hot takes more seriously.

BTW- you want to see a OLman get REALLY scrubbed, check out any clips you might see of the Dallas/Chargers games. Micah parson's schools their back up RT who had to start on literally EVERY play. I only watch the game periodically, but every play Parsons was on this guy it was no contest. Run plays, pass plays, it didn't matter.

BTW- when stuff like that happens (a physical mismatch) and it does, I blame the coaching more than the player, because when it becomes apparent to them and they don't do something to help the guy, it's THEIR fault. The Pats kept THEIR TE's in quite a bit, and sometimes it STILL didn't work out.

As for OUR RT situation, while it may become moot, if Brown returns, but the Pats have 3 options at the position. 1. Brown returns and this thread dies a worthy death. 2 either Herron or Durrant get better. You know players DO get better, and both Herron and Durrant have had their good moments too. 3. Cajuste comes back and continues to show the improvement we saw in pre-season. Either way, I believe are better solutions than the OL reboot you suggest

BTW- IF Brown was out for the season or have to go on IR, THEN your idea would have some merit after options 2 and 3 have been tried. Please remember that EVERY OLman (at least those not in the HOF, have had their games were they have been schooled. Also Remember that playing OL in the NFL winning 80% of the time means you will soon be looking for a job. There isn't much of margin of error for those guys. Win 3 out of 10 in baseball and your IN the HOF.

I'm pretty sure Brown will be back this week, lets see how it goes before we tear it apart.

Ochmed Jones · Sep 20, 2021

If healthy does cajuste get a shot at starting at right tackle?

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
Massive overreaction.

Mac isn't getting killed, and he's getting hit mostly on stunts coming all the way around the line...while he's processing the field.

He's hitting 74%, ffs.

Jets haven't given up 300 yards two straight weeks. Their defense is young, mostly in the secondary, but they're not a bottom feeder there. Pats won the game going away. I'll take it. Both the Jets and the Dolphins worked to pressure the rookie. Didn't work.

Herron was okay yesterday until he got hurt. Durant, who is really a guard, was exposed - but he was pretty good last week. Their starting RT and their backup, Cajuste (who looked far better than either Durant or Herron), were out. Could they use an upgrade there, and on the DL? Looks like it, but who's out there?

Neither Herron nor Durant have been playing well. This is like homer morons claiming NKeal Harry was good in games

.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
As has been pointed out, and as should be obvious, you build OL strength through continuity. Wynn has had a couple of bad weeks (the call on him yesterday looked ticky-tack), but he's the LT. Messing with the now, means three player - LT, LG, RT - will have different responsibilities. Is that a good idea?

I don't buy this. Onwenu was swapped mid-season last year and was fine, elite at RT. The worst disruption to the OLine is playing garbage at RT in Herron or Durant. Remember the same morons were claiming with a straight face that Eleamnor was fine last year too.

.

.

RIpats88 · Sep 21, 2021

People want to complain about the short passes but you need time for plays to develop deeper down the field.

Right now Mac is getting killed within 2 seconds.

50-yard-line · Sep 21, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
Neither Herron nor Durant have been playing well. This is like homer morons claiming NKeal Harry was good in games

.

I didn't say they were playing well - I said Durant was pretty good last week. The whole line has been a mess the first couple of games. Wynn has been awful. They've also been losing almost exclusively on stunts, often all the way around the line, which tells me two things: Mac is processing too slowly back there (expected of a rookie being careful), and the communication on that L is breaking down. Somebody's missing something somewhere and it needs to be corrected.

And if you're going to start with the juvenile name calling because of a level of frustration that is really just freaking weird with JMcD, then tell me now so I can put you on ignore.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
I didn't say they were playing well - I said Durant was pretty good last week. The whole line has been a mess the first couple of games. Wynn has been awful. They've also been losing almost exclusively on stunts, often all the way around the line, which tells me two things: Mac is processing too slowly back there (expected of a rookie being careful), and the communication on that L is breaking down. Somebody's missing something somewhere and it needs to be corrected.

And if you're going to start with the juvenile name calling because of a level of frustration that is really just freaking weird with JMcD, then tell me now so I can put you on ignore.

Durant and Herron are ranked 49th and 50th in the nfl. This is terrible. Not "pretty good". Durant was so bad he was replaced with Herron. The week prior Herron was so bad he was replaced with Durant

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

If Trent Brown isn’t healthy soon, the Patriots offensive line could have some problems - The Boston Globe

The Patriots are struggling to find a viable replacement for Brown, who injured his right calf on the opening drive in Week 1.

www.bostonglobe.com

50-yard-line · Sep 21, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
Durant and Herron are ranked 49th and 50th in the nfl. This is terrible. Not "pretty good". Durant was so bad he was replaced with Herron. The week prior Herron was so bad he was replaced with Durant

Herron was terrible last week - Durant played okay. The reverse was in play this week, where Durant got schooled, and Herron played better.

Herron is still young and learning - I'd prefer to see little of him.
Durant is a guard, not a tackle - I don't know if he'll stick around much longer.

Cajuste can play better than either of them.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
Herron was terrible last week - Durant played okay. The reverse was in play this week, where Durant got schooled, and Herron played better.

Herron is still young and learning - I'd prefer to see little of him.
Durant is a guard, not a tackle - I don't know if he'll stick around much longer.

Cajuste can play better than either of them.

How is this a good approach to roll the dice with 2 crappy bench players who keep getting benched halfway through the game? Don't tell me about consistency or chemistry. Durant joined Sept1. It makes way more sense to play Karras who is a solid vet at guard and slide Onwenu to RT.

I'm now realizing Popovich was actually the good OLine coach, the other guy still here is not good. And we already know the oc is clueless about talent eval.

mgteich · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
Cajuste can play better than either of them.

We HOPE that this is true.

50-yard-line · Sep 21, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
How is this a good approach to roll the dice with 2 crappy bench players who keep getting benched halfway through the game? Don't tell me about consistency or chemistry. Durant joined Sept1. It makes way more sense to play Karras who is a solid vet at guard and slide Onwenu to RT.

I'm now realizing Popovich was actually the good OLine coach, the other guy still here is not good. And we already know the oc is clueless about talent eval.

I don't know why. They want Onwenu at LG. Could make a case that the best OL would be Brown, Wynn, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, but they see Onwenu's best potential as a Left Guard. I don't know what's wrong with Wynn in this small sample size (at least one of the calls on him was a "really?" type of call.

But I don't know why. I don't know what they're seeing. They're not getting beat 1-1, typically, but on stunts. Seems like a communication/calling issue. The Patriots take September as an extended pre-season. Even so, they dominated the Dolphins and should be 2-0 right now. I'm confident they'll fix it - I think Cajuste might be just that as T3. But we'll see.

I am just gobsmacked at the negativity on this board after a 3-score divisional road win. I'm not just talking about some complaining; it's more like nonstop grievance. I just want them to be better in week 7 than in week 1, and better in week 14 than in week 7. I want Jones protected, physically and mentally, so he can get the game to slow down a bit - he is leaving lots of yards on the field, but that's okay with me right now as long as it's all moving in the right direction.

They have something like 25 new players on the team, including the QB, 5 of the primary receivers, and half the RBs. Totally a WIP.

Posting the same thing 5000000000000 times isn't going to make them change their philosophy or line-up.

rochrist · Sep 21, 2021

patfanken said:
Do you even WATCH the games or the replays after it? 2 of the 3 sacks were the direct result of a TE or RB missing a key block, and the 3rd was the result of a brilliant scheme that worked perfectly (those guys get paid too). Granted the OL hasn't lived up to their pre-season clippings, but you want to drastically wrench the line apart and throw away 2 months of work....on a whim of yours. Why if it were up to you, you would have pulled Brady after the first Miami game in 2001.

Do yourself a favor and watch the myriad of clips that show up on a lot threads, or order the all 22 for review, THEN we might take your hot takes more seriously.

BTW- you want to see a OLman get REALLY scrubbed, check out any clips you might see of the Dallas/Chargers games. Micah parson's schools their back up RT who had to start on literally EVERY play. I only watch the game periodically, but every play Parsons was on this guy it was no contest. Run plays, pass plays, it didn't matter.

BTW- when stuff like that happens (a physical mismatch) and it does, I blame the coaching more than the player, because when it becomes apparent to them and they don't do something to help the guy, it's THEIR fault. The Pats kept THEIR TE's in quite a bit, and sometimes it STILL didn't work out.

As for OUR RT situation, while it may become moot, if Brown returns, but the Pats have 3 options at the position. 1. Brown returns and this thread dies a worthy death. 2 either Herron or Durrant get better. You know players DO get better, and both Herron and Durrant have had their good moments too. 3. Cajuste comes back and continues to show the improvement we saw in pre-season. Either way, I believe are better solutions than the OL reboot you suggest

BTW- IF Brown was out for the season or have to go on IR, THEN your idea would have some merit after options 2 and 3 have been tried. Please remember that EVERY OLman (at least those not in the HOF, have had their games were they have been schooled. Also Remember that playing OL in the NFL winning 80% of the time means you will soon be looking for a job. There isn't much of margin of error for those guys. Win 3 out of 10 in baseball and your IN the HOF.

I'm pretty sure Brown will be back this week, lets see how it goes before we tear it apart.

Watching the game interferes with DKFelger's narrative.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

50-yard-line said:
I don't know why. They want Onwenu at LG. Could make a case that the best OL would be Brown, Wynn, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, but they see Onwenu's best potential as a Left Guard. I don't know what's wrong with Wynn in this small sample size (at least one of the calls on him was a "really?" type of call.

But I don't know why. I don't know what they're seeing. They're not getting beat 1-1, typically, but on stunts. Seems like a communication/calling issue. The Patriots take September as an extended pre-season. Even so, they dominated the Dolphins and should be 2-0 right now. I'm confident they'll fix it - I think Cajuste might be just that as T3. But we'll see.

I am just gobsmacked at the negativity on this board after a 3-score divisional road win. I'm not just talking about some complaining; it's more like nonstop grievance. I just want them to be better in week 7 than in week 1, and better in week 14 than in week 7. I want Jones protected, physically and mentally, so he can get the game to slow down a bit - he is leaving lots of yards on the field, but that's okay with me right now as long as it's all moving in the right direction.

They have something like 25 new players on the team, including the QB, 5 of the primary receivers, and half the RBs. Totally a WIP.

Posting the same thing 5000000000000 times isn't going to make them change their philosophy or line-up.

If Onwenu is rated a 83 at guard but 79 at OT, but OT is way more valuable than guard plus you have Karras ready to play, then the smart play is Onwenu at RT. What I've been saying about OLine breakdowns has been happening for 2 weeks. Why keep wasting more weeks when it's clear Herron and Durant are not starter caliber.

.

Ochmed Jones · Sep 21, 2021

If we can get Wynn and Andrews out of the toilet, we can overcome Herron at right tackle by giving him tight end help.

but until Andrews and Wynn bring their game up, it is going to be difficult for Jones to go downfield.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 21, 2021

Ochmed Jones said:
If we can get Wynn and Andrews out of the toilet, we can overcome Herron at right tackle by giving him tight end help.

but until Andrews and Wynn bring their game up, it is going to be difficult for Jones to go downfield.

the oc doesn't know how to use 2TEs. It's so obvious to keep both TEs at the OLine and allow Mac to adjust TEs to block or block and release. But nope it was unfortunately so predictable we'd see a ton of senseless 3WR shotgun, no OLine help. Mac is a smart dude, get that ball out fast and quick, don't go for some slow shotgun crap play when your OLine sucks and has no TE help.

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