What is BB's biggest mistake as head coach/GM of Patriots?

Bill Lee said:

Ahh great, the lastest "pump myself up by sh!tting on our team" thread.

If you want a team to shi!t on, go ahead and become a Jets fan.

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TheRainMaker said:

The timing of this thread is quite funny after a win. This would’ve been better during the off-season.

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This is the best anyone could come up with for a "pump myself up by sh!tting on our team" post after a win?

amfootball said:

I get it. Believe me. But look at the players we DID spend money on? Godchaux looks like a bust. Mills is not good at all. Better to take his money and give it to Gilmore. Trading pennies on the dollar to get Brown back and not paying Thuney seems like a really big miss given our run game is a priority and we have a rookie QB. Sony was not costing us anything to keep. That is the most head scratching of all of them IMO.

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FWIW Sony yesterday: 10 carries, 46 yards

I would have preferred to keep him but I think the team already made their decision when they didn't pick up his option so understandable that they'd try to get something back.

I thought it was option 2 until I was hit with option 1 a few years later.

JMC00 said:

-Not giving Brady an extension
moving on from Brady wasn't a mistake because the guy wanted out of New England and if he stayed he would have continued to sulk and take up a good portion of the salary cap. At some point it was gonna be time to cross that bridge to move on for him Belichick took a year to get the salary cap straight and get a QB in a draft that was one of the the deepest top half of the draft for QBs ever.

-Trading Garoppolo
he won another SB from sticking with Brady and trading Garoppolo. Is winning SBs now a mistake?


-Not playing Malcolm Butler
There was clearly something that happened that made him unplayable.


-Not drafting Lamar Jackson
That wasn't a mistake, he wasn't a fit and wouldn't be able to run the system. Him sitting behind Brady for a couple of years would have been pointless because you would have had to implement another system. Ravens had to fire their OC after Jackson's fist year and bring in the guy that made Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor. Michel helped win a SB.

-Trading Chandler Jones
Trading a guy for a draft pick that became an anchor for your OL for 3 straight SB appearances is not a mistake. It's the opposite.

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Re: Butler. Even an unnamed DB said "he knows why he wasn't playing". This is likely in relation to the story about him arriving to practice and telling a defensive coach, possibly Steve Belichick, to "shut the F up" when the coach jokingly said "bout time you showed up". I actually question if he even had the flu. I wonder if he wasn't in the gameplan as much, saw that, and then pouted at home instead, essentially quitting on the team. Seems kinda odd no one else had it but him. I think by him showing up late, being sort of flakey and having a couple of questionable post season games, it just spiraled. He got torched by overrated one trick pony Corey Davis, for example.

When I had the flu 2 years ago in the first time in my life, I took some stuff that made me crap everything out in like 48 hours. How he arrived on gameplan installation day (Wed) after staying back in Boston, I have no idea. Regardless, when he cried because he was told he wasn't in the starting lineup, I am sure they thought he was unstable and couldn;t be trusted. I know I would feel that way. The whole thing was strange almost like he had some kind of a breakdown after rejecting 8 mil per year before the season started. He strangely hired a high school buddy to negotiate the deal and then hired a real agent, but it was too late.

I don't get why BB needs to be accountable for an adult's actions.

Good post, though. Agree with all of it. I just watched Lamar Jackson look horrible last night. The Chiefs D is a sieve, so that's why he appeared good, but that style of offense is clearly not sustainable.

TheRainMaker said:

The timing of this thread is quite funny after a win. This would’ve been better during the off-season.

However, Bill’s biggest mistake was not keeping talent or surrounding Tom with talent while the nucleus that Bill built was still intact from 2005-2009 which started the 10 year drought. They should’ve won at least two rings between 2005-2009. He let guys walk without replacements, failed to address weaknesses, signed some really bad players, traded 3 players between 2006-2010 he shouldn’t have (who am I referring to) and drafted guys who weren’t needed.

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I don't think this was possible. The 2011 CBA had unknown financial parameters, so they decided to pay their own instead of spending outside the organization, which was smart.

BB instead made Mankins, Wilfork, Mayo, Brady and Welker (tagged at 11.5 mil in 2011) as the highest paid at their positions in the league. That was the surrounding of Brady with talent. It was homegrown.

But, if they spend wildly behind that, there is no way they would have been as competitive in 2012, 2013, 2014. I mean, BB built a second dynasty with the approach.

Most NFL teams take decades to even be competitive year to year.

Lastly, I find it amusing Brady was hot garbage in both the 2007 and 2011 title games and not much better in each SB for the Giants and that somehow falls on BB the GM.

DaBruinz said:

SMH.. The revisionist history is astounding.

The Patriots went to 8straight AFC Championships. They won 5 of those 8. 4 of the 5 wins took place from 2014-2019. During that time, they won 3 of the 5 Super Bowls. So, that back half of the 2010s accounted for HALF of the SB rings BB has earned with the Pats. This idea of yours that the "talent dried up so quickly" isn't actually supported by fact.

You're also forgetting the draft picks that were stolen because of the FALSE accusations by the COLTS known as "DeflateGate". And you're ignoring that winning those SBs and being in 8 consecutive AFC Championships put the Pats drafting in the bottom 4 picks of the draft for 8 consecutive years. If you don't think that had an affect on the talent available to them, I don't know what to tell you..

The Patriots hated the talent in the 2017 draft so much, that they traded away their 1st and 3rd round picks for Brandin Cooks. They traded away their 2nd round pick for Kony Ealy and a 3rd. And lastly they traded a 5th round pick of James O'Shaughnessy and a 6th round pick. They 3rd and 6th round picks also ended up getting traded.

There were no "changes" this off-season except that a lot of dead money came off the books. And BB mentioned this already.

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How dare you post facts, reality and accurate history with context!

Lots of revisionist history regarding propping up Brady and strangely bashing the guy who drafted him, groomed him and gave him all the answers to the test across the table from him, as the greatest defensive mind the NFL has ever seen. It's amusing to me some people think BB had no influence on Brady's career.

Brady owes BB his career and millions as much as Dion Lewis, Rob Ninkovich, Edelman, Butler, Stephen Neal, or any other late rd or cast off player BB got the most out of in the last 20 years.

NG Pats Fan said:

Jimmy G looks like hot garbage. A game manager with no ceiling..

hope Mac is way better than that

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He's something like 24-6 as a starter. Shanahan is not as good as BB. JimmyG would be better coached and a better player here.

NewEraWithMac said:

Re: Butler. Even an unnamed DB said "he knows why he wasn't playing". This is likely in relation to the story about him arriving to practice and telling a defensive coach, possibly Steve Belichick, to "shut the F up" when the coach jokingly said "bout time you showed up". I actually question if he even had the flu. I wonder if he wasn't in the gameplan as much, saw that, and then pouted at home instead, essentially quitting on the team. Seems kinda odd no one else had it but him. I think by him showing up late, being sort of flakey and having a couple of questionable post season games, it just spiraled. He got torched by overrated one trick pony Corey Davis, for example.

When I had the flu 2 years ago in the first time in my life, I took some stuff that made me crap everything out in like 48 hours. How he arrived on gameplan installation day (Wed) after staying back in Boston, I have no idea. Regardless, when he cried because he was told he wasn't in the starting lineup, I am sure they thought he was unstable and couldn;t be trusted. I know I would feel that way. The whole thing was strange almost like he had some kind of a breakdown after rejecting 8 mil per year before the season started. He strangely hired a high school buddy to negotiate the deal and then hired a real agent, but it was too late.

I don't get why BB needs to be accountable for an adult's actions.

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Eagles were 8/12 on third down and scored points on all but one drive where they had a 3rd down conversion. The outcome was a one score game. Therefore it's safe to say that Butler our best tackling corner and Super Bowl XLIX hero could have made the 1 or two plays that the inferior defense out there couldn't make that would have flipped the outcome. That's all that was needed.

I don't care what happened leading up to it, keeping him on the bench and keeping an inferior lineup out there to get incinerated by Nick Fkn Foles was the worst coaching decision in the history of the Super Bowl, hands down. Fireable for any other coach.

NewEraWithMac said:

I find it amusing Brady was hot garbage in both the 2007 and 2011 title games

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He was nothing of the sort.

Starting Brady over Bledsoe.

sb1 said:

Eagles scored points on all but one drive where they had a 3rd down conversion. The outcome was a one score game. Therefore it's safe to say that Butler our best tackling corner and Super Bowl XLIX hero could have made the 1 or two plays that would have flipped the outcome. That's all that was needed.

I don't care what happened leading up to it, keeping him on the bench and keeping an inferior lineup out there to get incinerated by Nick Fkn Foles was the worst coaching decision in the history of the Super Bowl, hands down. Fireable for any other coach.

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I didn't like who they had on who. Ironically, I'd said before that game that Agoholor and Ertz were the guys to watch, not Jeffrey. When Agoholor popped open and Bademosi was there, I totally saw him about to over run the tackle as it was happening. I would have had Rowe on Jeffrey with Harmon over the top when needed because he only runs deeper routes. How a Safety wasn't over the top on that first score, I have no idea. It was the underneath stuff that was going to be an issue. Chung had Ertz contained before he got hurt. When you're down that many key defenders, it was going to be tough. I don't want to bring up the free 14 points Philly got from Goodell or the dropped Brady pass as he was wide open, because that would be too much irony for both situations.

NewEraWithMac said:

I didn't like who they had on who. Ironically, I'd said before that game that Agoholor and Ertz were the guys to watch, not Jeffrey. When Agoholor popped open and Bademosi was there, I totally saw him about to over run the tackle as it was happening. I would have had Rowe on Jeffrey with Harmon over the top when needed because he only runs deeper routes. How a Safety wasn't over the top on that first score, I have no idea. It was the underneath stuff that was going to be an issue. Chung had Ertz contained before he got hurt. When you're down that many key defenders, it was going to be tough. I don't want to bring up the free 14 points Philly got from Goodell or the dropped Brady pass as he was wide open, because that would be too much irony for both situations.

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All the more reason why Butler would have solved a lot of problems. He was a good tackler, those other guys weren't. Bill set them up to fail. When Bill saw that they couldn't stop anything you make adjustments and that didn't happen. Like I said... 1 or 2 stops on third down from Butler flip the outcome. That's it. HE didn't have to be Deion Sanders that game.

Re the Pats philly special I don't fault Brady for that play - that was on McDaniels for calling it from his bag of tricks that he tends to use sometimes. It was dumb then and still dumb when they tried it again against the Titans the year after.

sb1 said:

He was nothing of the sort.

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Umm, he was HORRIBLE. 3 ints in 2007, one in the end zone and they finally had Laura Maroney bail him out with mostly all runs in the 4th quarter, ending up with 22 carries for 122 yards to save the day along with the D.

In 2011, BJGE was benched vs Baltimore after an outstanding 8 carry first half and 50 yards. He literally disappeared in the 2nd half. The INT into triple coverage in Baltimore territory on 1st down after the Spikes INT was an abomination. Brady himself admitted he sucked (thankfully) into the camera at the end of the game, because, well, he did. He sucked.

How can you sit there and lie about how bad he was? He was pretty bad vs GB in January as well with 3 more INTs, but Rodgers was thinking about himself and GB's offense sucked worse.

Brady thought throwing more into the teeth of a phyiscal D was the solution to scoring more points. He was wrong. Thankfully, the drafting of JimmyG rectified the shotgun spread offense and lack of a run game that Brady thought he didn't need. Voila, BB builds another dynasty after years of Brady wanting a Manning offense.

sb1 said:

All the more reason why Butler would have solved a lot of problems. He was a good tackler, those other guys weren't. Bill set them up to fail. When Bill saw that they couldn't stop anything you make adjustments and that didn't happen. Like I said... 1 or 2 stops on third down from Butler flip the outcome. That's it. HE didn't have to be Deion Sanders that game.

Re the Pats philly special I don't fault Brady for that play - that was on McDaniels for calling it from his bag of tricks that he tends to use sometimes. It was dumb then and still dumb when they tried it again against the Titans the year after.

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Do you think Tom Brady ever makes a mistake? Ever?

NewEraWithMac said:

I don't think this was possible. The 2011 CBA had unknown financial parameters, so they decided to pay their own instead of spending outside the organization, which was smart.

BB instead made Mankins, Wilfork, Mayo, Brady and Welker (tagged at 11.5 mil in 2011) as the highest paid at their positions in the league. That was the surrounding of Brady with talent. It was homegrown.

But, if they spend wildly behind that, there is no way they would have been as competitive in 2012, 2013, 2014. I mean, BB built a second dynasty with the approach.

Most NFL teams take decades to even be competitive year to year.

Lastly, I find it amusing Brady was hot garbage in both the 2007 and 2011 title games and not much better in each SB for the Giants and that somehow falls on BB the GM.

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Don't know about hot garbage. I went back and watched the playoffs game against the Chargers. And though NE won, the aura of invincibility was gone. After the Buffalo game, the offense wasn't so much historic anymore. Again, I only went by YouTube videos and stats.

Still....Brady is a helmet catch away from 19-0.

NewEraWithMac said:

Umm, he was HORRIBLE. 3 ints in 2007, one in the end zone and they finally had Laura Maroney bail him out with mostly all runs in the 4th quarter, ending up with 22 carries for 122 yards to save the day along with the D.

In 2011, BJGE was benched vs Baltimore after an outstanding 8 carry first half and 50 yards. He literally disappeared in the 2nd half. The INT into triple coverage in Baltimore territory on 1st down after the Spikes INT was an abomination. Brady himself admitted he sucked (thankfully) into the camera at the end of the game, because, well, he did. He sucked.

How can you sit there and lie about how bad he was? He was pretty bad vs GB in January as well with 3 more INTs, but Rodgers was thinking about himself and GB's offense sucked worse.

Brady thought throwing more into the teeth of a phyiscal D was the solution to scoring more points. He was wrong. Thankfully, the drafting of JimmyG rectified the shotgun spread offense and lack of a run game that Brady thought he didn't need. Voila, BB builds another dynasty after years of Brady wanting a Manning offense.

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Misread it - I thought you were referring to the SB's and not the AFCCG. The SB's weren't his best games (especially 2011) but they were far from bad games. Didn't help that he and Gronk were injured in XLII and XLVI respectively.

NewEraWithMac said:

Do you think Tom Brady ever makes a mistake? Ever?

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My post was about Butler and the impact of not having him out there.

Fireable for any other coach without a doubt.

NewEraWithMac said:

Umm, he was HORRIBLE. 3 ints in 2007, one in the end zone and they finally had Laura Maroney bail him out with mostly all runs in the 4th quarter, ending up with 22 carries for 122 yards to save the day along with the D.

In 2011, BJGE was benched vs Baltimore after an outstanding 8 carry first half and 50 yards. He literally disappeared in the 2nd half. The INT into triple coverage in Baltimore territory on 1st down after the Spikes INT was an abomination. Brady himself admitted he sucked (thankfully) into the camera at the end of the game, because, well, he did. He sucked.

How can you sit there and lie about how bad he was? He was pretty bad vs GB in January as well with 3 more INTs, but Rodgers was thinking about himself and GB's offense sucked worse.

Brady thought throwing more into the teeth of a phyiscal D was the solution to scoring more points. He was wrong. Thankfully, the drafting of JimmyG rectified the shotgun spread offense and lack of a run game that Brady thought he didn't need. Voila, BB builds another dynasty after years of Brady wanting a Manning offense.

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To be fair, every great QB has had ****ty playoff games.

Mahomes , despite the MVP, really wasn't great in SB 54. SB 55? Not good at all.

But it's not about just a few playoff games. It's the body of work.

sb1 said:

Misread it - I thought you were referring to the SB's and not the AFCCG. The SB's weren't his best games (especially 2011) but they were far from bad games.

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I had to look back.

Fair to say Brady's worst playoff games ever were against the Ravens in 09 & Jets in 2010?

NewEraWithMac said:

Do you think Tom Brady ever makes a mistake? Ever?

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They both do.

They are human. Stuff like this doesnt even need to be said. Of course Brady AND Belichick makes mistakes.