OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

SBLIII said:

Godwin might be out, limited with quad injury.

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Another thing TFB brought to Tpa, playing head games with oppo.

venecol said:

Another thing TFB brought to Tpa, playing head games with oppo.

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could be. AB was also listed with a knee injury and non participant when he in reality is resting.

venecol said:

Another thing TFB brought to Tpa, playing head games with oppo.

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I'm the least bit of concerned with Tampa having a galore of weapons at the receiver position!

Deus Irae said:

All-Time QB Rankings / QB Hall of Fame Monitor

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I'll take the opinion of possibly the greatest historian of the game, Bill Belichick.

Who did he list as the greatest QB he coached against? Peyton Manning.

As a DC he coached against Joe Montana.

Let that sink in.

gobesmug said:

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I'll take the opinion of possibly the greatest historian of the game, Bill Belichick.

Who did he list as the greatest QB he coached against? Peyton Manning.

As a DC he coached against Joe Montana.

Let that sink in.

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Being cynical I believe it’s because Montana never beat him in a big game and so he thinks just because of that he’s an inferior player.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Unitas has some signature moments: maybe the most famous clutch performance in NFL history (due to it being the first televised game) in the 1958 Championship. Then the next year, riding his touchdown streak, in the midst of a record setting 32 TD regular season performance, and closing the deal by dominating the 1959 Championship game.

And just like Manning gets "credit" for his dogshit performances in the 2006 postseason (3 TDs, 7 INTs) and 2015 postseason (absolute dogshit, no need to get into it), Unitas gets credit for being the official starter of Super Bowl 5, bringing his championship total to 3.

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His 2006 performance included an incredible come back against NE.

Old era teams before the salary cap, league expansion, and an overall greater talent pool and coaching makes it difficult to compare old school players vs modern.

VectorPrime said:

Being cynical I believe it’s because Montana never beat him in a big game and so he thinks just because of that he’s an inferior player.

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Bill is very petty person so that wouldn't surprise me lol

gobesmug said:

His 2006 performance included an incredible come back against NE.

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The 2006 performance? Dude - he had so many opportunities for last minute, postseason heroics. One win in the AFCCG, at home, with the better team? Nice win…by far the weakest career defining moment of any consensus all-time great QB.

gobesmug said:

Old era teams before the salary cap, league expansion, and an overall greater talent pool and coaching makes it difficult to compare old school players vs modern.

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Then why are you arguing Manning > Unitas ? Counterpoints are subject to the unknowable, but your points aren’t?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

The 2006 performance? Dude - he had so many opportunities for last minute, postseason heroics. One win in the AFCCG, at home, with the better team? Nice win…by far the weakest career defining moment of any consensus all-time great QB.

Then why are you arguing Manning > Unitas ? Counterpoints are subject to the unknowable, but your points aren’t?

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It's not so much a Manning > Unitas as it is a why single Manning out?

Honestly I would prefer that list of top 10 to be all different positions.

Like how is Montana and Rice both in the top 10? If one is a top 10 player of all time then wouldn't it reason the other player was benefited and therefore doesn't belong?

gobesmug said:

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I'll take the opinion of possibly the greatest historian of the game, Bill Belichick.

Who did he list as the greatest QB he coached against? Peyton Manning.

As a DC he coached against Joe Montana.

Let that sink in.

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He didn't coach against Unitas, Starr, et al., and he was, as you note, just a D.C. against Montana, so he has no relevance here.

It will be interesting to watch these guys move up the all time list:
With a 1000 yard 10TD season each.
AB goes 31 to 22 with 12746.
Evan's goes 94 to 60 with 9266.
Gronk goes 85 to 56 with 9484 yards.

For TD:
AB moves from 30 to 13 with 89.
EVANS moves from 82 to 44 with 71.
Gronk moves from 15 to 12 with 96.

If all 3 are mostly healthy. Evans will probably have a bit more, AB will be around this mark, and Gronk a bit below.

Deus Irae said:

He didn't coach against Unitas, Starr, et al., and he was, as you note, just a D.C. against Montana, so he has no relevance here.

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He was a DC, his job was to specifically coach against the offense.

Belichick specifically designed the defensive scheme to shutdown Jim Kelly. So Bill was very much involved against QBs as a DC.

Belichick clearly has the highest respect for Peyton and mentioned many ways that make Peyton great and unique.

If you prefer Unitas to Peyton that's fine, but to say Peyton doesn't belong isn't accurate.

I personally wouldn't rank him in my top 10 off all time NFL players because Brady would be the only the QB in that list.

But Peyton was an all time great, and only Brady was his equal at presnap adjustments.

Brady vs Manning were the best matchups.

gobesmug said:

It's not so much a Manning > Unitas as it is a why single Manning out?

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Because in addition this being a Patriots board, he represents to many the definition of a phony. Again, he never won a championship without being either (a) the worst rated passer to win SB MVP during a postseason where threw 3 TDs, 7 INTs and won a game despite not scoring a TD, and (b) a season where he was benched for Brock Osweiler, finished with the worst passer rating of the Super Bowl era for a SB winning QB - worse than Dilfer, etc., and completely crapped the bed as always in the SB but got bailed out again.

Manning never won a championship by being gutsy, often had awards handed to him without earning them, and yet somehow receives the reputation as the guy who would succeed anywhere, despite being carried to titles and despite having tons of talent.

People resent that.

He's an all-time great...but there are other QBs who achieved more, and who earned their championships with numerous examples of clutch play down the stretch.

gobesmug said:

He was a DC, his job was to specifically coach against the offense.

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DC ≠ HC

gobesmug said:

Belichick specifically designed the defensive scheme to shutdown Jim Kelly. So Bill was very much involved against QBs as a DC.

Belichick clearly has the highest respect for Peyton and mentioned many ways that make Peyton great and unique.

If you prefer Unitas to Peyton that's fine, but to say Peyton doesn't belong isn't accurate.

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Yes, "Peyton doesn't belong" is accurate.

gobesmug said:

I personally wouldn't rank him in my top 10 off all time NFL players because Brady would be the only the QB in that list.

But Peyton was an all time great, and only Brady was his equal at presnap adjustments.

Brady vs Manning were the best matchups.

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If you wouldn't rank him in your top 10, then what the hell are you arguing about?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Because in addition this being a Patriots board, he represents to many the definition of a phony. Again, he never won a championship without being either (a) the worst rated passer to win SB MVP during a postseason where threw 3 TDs, 7 INTs and won a game despite not scoring a TD, and (b) a season where he was benched for Brock Osweiler, finished with the worst passer rating of the Super Bowl era for a SB winning QB - worse than Dilfer, etc., and completely crapped the bed as always in the SB but got bailed out again.

Manning never won a championship by being gutsy, often had awards handed to him without earning them, and yet somehow receives the reputation as the guy who would succeed anywhere, despite being carried to titles and despite having tons of talent.

People resent that.

He's an all-time great...but there are other QBs who achieved more, and who earned their championships with numerous examples of clutch play down the stretch.

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Brees >> Peyton

venecol said:

Brees >> Peyton

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Brady vs Brees just doesn't have the same ring to it as Brady vs Peyton.

To be the best you got to beat the best.
Peyton was the NFL and media golden child. He was annointed as the best until Brady surpassed him.

Then it was Rodgers. Since he couldn't overcome Brady as the GOAT. They proclaimed him as the BOAT. The Brady beat down last year kept him in pretender status.

Now it's Mahomes. He has already lost twice to Brady in the playoffs. He's already being proclaimed as the baby GOAT or future GOAT. He needs another beat down in the playoffs this year, hopefully by the Pats.

My point is having a rival or villain makes it more interesting. Having your favorite or protagonist beat them is more satisfying.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Because in addition this being a Patriots board, he represents to many the definition of a phony. Again, he never won a championship without being either (a) the worst rated passer to win SB MVP during a postseason where threw 3 TDs, 7 INTs and won a game despite not scoring a TD, and (b) a season where he was benched for Brock Osweiler, finished with the worst passer rating of the Super Bowl era for a SB winning QB - worse than Dilfer, etc., and completely crapped the bed as always in the SB but got bailed out again.

Manning never won a championship by being gutsy, often had awards handed to him without earning them, and yet somehow receives the reputation as the guy who would succeed anywhere, despite being carried to titles and despite having tons of talent.

People resent that.

He's an all-time great...but there are other QBs who achieved more, and who earned their championships with numerous examples of clutch play down the stretch.

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There is no doubt Manning and Brady were the top 2 QBs of their generation with Brady being miles ahead of Peyton but Peyton was better than Big Ben, Brees, Rivers, etc. But when taking football history into account, Peyton falls pretty far down the list IMO. Where do you have him ranked on your QB chart?

Deus Irae said:

If you wouldn't rank him in your top 10, then what the hell are you arguing about?

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For the sake of arguing lol

Brees is the God King of empty passing stats. No one can throw for 5k yards in a losing season like Brees.

VectorPrime said:

Brees is the God King of empty passing stats. No one can throw for 5k yards in a losing season like Brees.

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Saints Super Forum was pure gold after Brady won the SB. So many lamenting how Brees should have retired so the Saints could have gotten Brady and won the SB. Instead they have Tampa's former QB as their starter. LOL. The juxtaposition is priceless.