Cam Released

rochrist · Sep 1, 2021

203Pat said:
He was a first team all pro and a 4 time pro bowler and had career earnings of over $57 million. He wasn't overrated or "worthless". He just said something you don't like.

Nah. He was overrated. There was a reason Bill didn't want to pay him. He was absolutely awful in run support.

Bill Lee · Sep 1, 2021

jdlboot14 said:
Maybe now that Mac is the guy, Edelman could come out of retirement to play with a QB that can actually hit him between the numbers and won't throw him into injuries. Just a dream.

Sorry, but no. When a guy says his knees are shot, you gotta believe him. He left it all out on the field.

203Pat · Sep 1, 2021

Bill Lee said:
Thanks, you captured it well. The stuff I was referring to in my first sentence was a few pods ago, when they were debating the Mac-Cam thing. I was quite surprised to hear Gregg say perceptions of racism may have been part of the decision process. I'm fairly sure he was saying that in a mocking way, but you never know.

I will point out (and you may already know) Marc was raised in the Danbury CT area. He's made references to hanging out as a teenager at the Danbury Mall. Seems I have some similarities to him, although I was in my late teens when the mall was built and was in my 20s when I was working in the Danbury area, many moons ago. Marc is one of the few people on the air that has a "Connecticut accent" if there is such a thing. He says certain things certain ways and I say to myself "he's one of my people".

I don't really know if there's a CT accent. I've traveled a bit and no one has ever said "hey, you must be from CT". People have a hard time placing me. They know I'm from the US, but beyond that, they really don't know. I've googled it a bit and at best there are a few pronunciations one can pick up on. For instance we tend to say Grotin not Groton, the 'tin' for 'ton' thing is one of the few giveaways.

I think it'd be more along the lines of "I need a good reason to cut Cam and keep Mac otherwise people will say I'm racist". I truly don't believe anything of the sort, but we are talking about perceptions not reality.

Overall I like their podcast and take it for what it is. I don’t think any of them know a tremendous amount about any of the teams, more like a surface level knowledge of each of the 32. I knew Marc was from CT but I never caught where so it's cool to finally have it pinned down as I am from CT myself. When I lived in Florida I had people tell me I had anything from a NY to a Boston accent but then again I don't know how many people outside of the northeast can really tell one from the other.

DropKickFlutie · Sep 1, 2021

mike_usagisan said:
Part of the problem is that not only don’t we have the data to prove you correct, how do we even define the argument? Like, are we saying Brady wouldn’t have won a SuperBowl in 2001 if he had played in 2000? Or are we saying that he wouldn’t have won it in 2000? Because no crap, he wasn’t winning it in 2000 with the Patriots. No one could have gotten that ship pointed in the right direction. And no one could possibly know if he still would have won in 2001 if he played in 2000. These are purely hypothetical arguments.

Are we saying Peyton Manning would have won more if he hadn’t played his rookie year? Like, how could we ever know that? It seemed like Corey Dillon running all over their defense was a bigger hindrance than whatever happened in Peyton’s rookie season.

I understand that Brady,etc. say it was good for them to sit. I just don’t know what that means in terms of their future success or the success of their teams.

It's a moot point because there's no QB competition anymore. In fact Mac is the only QB left on the entire roster. If anything this is exciting because Belichick is objective so all this means Mac is as good as I thought he could be before the draft. He's currently 2nd in betting odds for Rookie of the Year behind Trevor, but I think he could win it given 6 good catchers that he can throw to.

mike_usagisan · Sep 1, 2021

DropKickFlutie said:
It's a moot point because there's no QB competition anymore. In fact Mac is the only QB left on the entire roster. If anything this is exciting because Belichick is objective so all this means Mac is as good as I thought he could be before the draft. He's currently 2nd in betting odds for Rookie of the Year behind Trevor, but I think he could win it given 6 good catchers that he can throw to.

Right? If we had an Alex Smith, I bet BB wouldn’t be starting Mac. But we didn’t and there’s no Alex Smith on the market now. So we’re all rooting for Mac to be great now!

Bill Lee · Sep 1, 2021

203Pat said:
Overall I like their podcast and take it for what it is. I don’t think any of them know a tremendous amount about any of the teams, more like a surface level knowledge of each of the 32. I knew Marc was from CT but I never caught where so it's cool to finally have it pinned down as I am from CT myself. When I lived in Florida I had people tell me I had anything from a NY to a Boston accent but then again I don't know how many people outside of the northeast can really tell one from the other.

Thanks. I agree with the assessment. Thing is, I've tried to catch on to more 'football-y' podcasts like Ringer, Athletic, Mina Kimes, etc and they lose me if they go too deep into analytics stuff. That being said, Chris is of course a huge loss on so many levels, but in this context he is missed because he would challenge the other three when they were going too chalk or going too wild. I was hoping they'd bring in another 'football-y' kind of guy to restore balance, but with the big layoffs at NFL Media and the iHeart deal I think everyone's just glad to have jobs.

203Pat · Sep 1, 2021

rochrist said:
Nah. He was overrated. There was a reason Bill didn't want to pay him. He was absolutely awful in run support.

Okay Asante wasn't very good. The second team all pro and three pro bowls in a row he made with the Eagles were a farce. Bill was right to let him walk as Ellis Hobbs, Delta O'Neal, Lewis Sanders, Terrence Wheatley, Johnathan Wilhite, Leigh Bodden, Darius Butler, Shawn Springs, Kyle Arrington, Devin McCourty, Sterling Moore, and Antwaun Molden more than had things covered at corner over the next few years.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 1, 2021

mike_usagisan said:
Part of the problem is that not only don’t we have the data to prove you correct, how do we even define the argument? Like, are we saying Brady wouldn’t have won a SuperBowl in 2001 if he had played in 2000? Or are we saying that he wouldn’t have won it in 2000? Because no crap, he wasn’t winning it in 2000 with the Patriots. No one could have gotten that ship pointed in the right direction. And no one could possibly know if he still would have won in 2001 if he played in 2000. These are purely hypothetical arguments.

Are we saying Peyton Manning would have won more if he hadn’t played his rookie year? Like, how could we ever know that? It seemed like Corey Dillon running all over their defense was a bigger hindrance than whatever happened in Peyton’s rookie season.

I understand that Brady,etc. say it was good for them to sit. I just don’t know what that means in terms of their future success or the success of their teams.

Exactly...the main issue here is that the draft itself is unpredictable. So, it's not like we have any type of certainty that these guys "would have" turned out differently if they'd been drafted by other teams, sat a year, etc.

We could try to find similar groupings and say, hey, let's look at these 20 top-ten quarterbacks from 2005-15, assign variables for playing time in year one, and try to correlate it. Problem is, you probably only have a handful of players who actually developed into an ideal quarterback, and the results are likely to be random with that type of small size.

And it's difficult to draw historical comparisons...sure, it would result in a larger pool of QBs being measured, but the times really have changed when it comes to QBs coming out of college, knowing pro-style offenses, film breakdown, nutrition, etc.

Which is why we see arguments about 3-4 quarterbacks being rested in year 1, or starting in year 1, and both groups could really prove the point. There simply isn't enough data here, and there probably won't be. It's really left to reasoning based on individual situations. There's absolutey a legit case that some QBs are ruined due to being started too soon and lose their confidence; there's absolutey a legit case that some are not ruined by that either.

We just have to look at Mac and assume common sense is being applied; something tells me the Patriots understand both sides of the argument too.

A Defiant Goose · Sep 1, 2021

rochrist said:
Because attacking his playing ability is one thing, attacking his character is an entirely different one.

But who gives a ****, honestly? Nobody would be going out of their way to defend anyone else who was so bad and here for such a short time

rochrist · Sep 1, 2021

A Defiant Goose said:
But who gives a ****, honestly? Nobody would be going out of their way to defend anyone else who was so bad and here for such a short time

The point is that there is more than enough to criticize in his game without resorting to attacks on his character. Which by all reports was pretty good while he was here.

203Pat · Sep 1, 2021

Bill Lee said:
Thanks. I agree with the assessment. Thing is, I've tried to catch on to more 'football-y' podcasts like Ringer, Athletic, Mina Kimes, etc and they lose me if they go too deep into analytics stuff. That being said, Chris is of course a huge loss on so many levels, but in this context he is missed because he would challenge the other three when they were going too chalk or going too wild. I was hoping they'd bring in another 'football-y' kind of guy to restore balance, but with the big layoffs at NFL Media and the iHeart deal I think everyone's just glad to have jobs.

Yeah outside of Patriots Unfiltered (formerly PFW in Progress) and ATN I have tried other football podcasts and don't usually last long. I agree on what you said about Chris. That was a huge loss as he was the guy who kept everyone else in check and was never scared to go to battle if he disagreed with one of the other guys. Sometimes it feels like Dan browbeats the other guys and in turn Gregg tries to browbeat Marc. They generally won't fight any of the points they make too hard because none of the other guys really disagree with any real conviction. I am not sure what route they go with as they seem to have a rotation of guests coming on the show. I don't know if they actually bring someone else in permanently or that would be viewed as "replacing" Chris. Honestly it seems that lately they are somewhat disillusioned with the NFL as a company and I kind of keep waiting to hear one of them announce they are jumping ship.

Bill Lee · Sep 1, 2021

A Defiant Goose said:
But who gives a ****, honestly? Nobody would be going out of their way to defend anyone else who was so bad and here for such a short time

Indeed. In a few years the 'Cam Era' will be a blip, like the Matt Cassel year, but with even less pleasant memories to cling to than an 11-5 team that didn't make the playoffs. We'll remember empty stadiums, players out and games rescheduled due to COVID, etc. Personally, I think I'll always remember the play in SEA where Cam kept the ball and got stuffed and later said my bad. Other than that, I don't think I'll remember much.

pazrul72 · Sep 1, 2021

I worked doubles at the hospital yesterday and Monday so this is the first I saw the news. @Ring 6 @Deus Irae i want to show you how easy something is.

I was wrong.

I have been saying since Mac was drafted he should sit a year and learn, that it was in his best interest to reach his full potential. That he would only play 1-4 games when Cam got some small ding. I thought he needed time to get an NFL body that can handle the pounding starting QBs have to take. Obviously with Cam being cut BB disagrees and i recognize he knows 1000 x what I do about football not to mention has several thousand more points of data then I do. I still disagree with the move, but he has more then earned my trust, so I am excited about what it appears to mean about Mac.

I like what I hear about the offense looking like the offense we have seen for years. Mac doesn’t need to be a superstar and take the team on his back he just needs to stay on schedule and not make too many mistakes. He is going to make some though, everyone does, and he is a rookie learning on the job. I am going to be patient and keep my expectations reasonable but a season of 3500 yards 20 TDs and 10 INTs would have me looking forward to the rest of his career with great interest.

denverpatsfan · Sep 1, 2021

Bill Lee said:
Indeed. In a few years the 'Cam Era' will be a blip, like the Matt Cassel year, but with even less pleasant memories to cling to than an 11-5 team that didn't make the playoffs. We'll remember empty stadiums, players out and games rescheduled due to COVID, etc. Personally, I think I'll always remember the play in SEA where Cam kept the ball and got stuffed and later said my bad. Other than that, I don't think I'll remember much.

I'll remember losing to an awful Denver team at home. Great times!

203Pat · Sep 1, 2021

denverpatsfan said:
I'll remember losing to an awful Denver team at home. Great times!

That brutal fumble against the Bills that sealed the game.

Captain Cliche · Sep 1, 2021

I didn't get to watch too many games last season and didn't purchase Game Pass, but the season looked bad even on Game Tracker:

In the red zone...interception.
In the red zone...fumble.
Hoyer In the red zone...sack, out of FG range.
Hoyer calls time out with none left...delay of game (Hoyer really craps his pants in the red zone, anti-clutch).
At the goal line...Cam stuffed.
Cam to run it in...stopped (this one worked for maybe 2 games and then everyone wised up).

Bill Lee · Sep 1, 2021

2020 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia makes for depressing reading.

What was the game were we behind late and running out of time, Cam threw it to Harry in the flat, he didn't catch it and the game ended?

I guess it's one more 2020 memory I'm suppressing...

Koma · Sep 1, 2021

mike_usagisan said:
Do captains have any special responsibilities? I always assumed it was an honorary thing.

At sea, I believe they are allowed to perform weddings.

PScottman · Sep 1, 2021

Koma said:
At sea, I believe they are allowed to perform weddings.

They can also keelhaul mutineers. It's a "upside/downside" kind of arrangement.

JayNM · Sep 1, 2021

Time for a new profile Pic, its truly a new era

Cam Released

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

What, me worry?

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Moderator

What, me worry?

Pro Bowl Player

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Pro Bowl Player

What, me worry?

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Supporter

Pro Bowl Player

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

What, me worry?

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

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