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The Brady Vs Manning thing isn't fair at all.


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I for one am very glad that there is continuing ammunition on both sides of this debate. How did that old saying go "the quality of your success is measured by the quality of your competition"?

Both are elite quarterbacks, and currently they are playing a game that seems to leapfrog each other to greater heights. Even the previous best rivalry, Montana and Marino, never got this far because Joe always trumped Dan on SB rings. No 12 and 18 are rewritting the record books and winning SBs. Lets enjoy the rivalry because soon it will be gone, and all we will be left with is telling our children/grandchildren how great it was.

2007 is TB's year so far, but I expect PM to continue to press him for the honor (if not this year, then certainly beyond).

well said, I am sure that the Colts and Pats fan can remember the days of half empty stadiums and sucky game play by both teams, hell even when both teams sucked it seemed like the Pats still beat the Colts, I remember a guy named Grogan going into the dome and the Pats were like 0-7 and the Pats won on a last second FG, those were the days....:D
 
This discussion will never be won. But here's an observation, it could be blown out of the water, but here's what I see.

Brady started with a pretty strong team around him in his early years, and over the years the Patriots have grown more and more dependent on him. I'm not saying that the team around him is weak by any means, but I didn't see the Patriots always losing if he had an off game in his early years. Now, I believe he is needed more than in the past. And he is delivering week in and week out. His delivering naturally under pressure and not getting rattled, kinda reminds me of Montana.

Manning started off on a team that needed him to succeed if they were to win. Over the years, he's still the leader, but the team around him has improved to a point that I don't see the Colts always losing if he has an off game now. He is using the rest of his team than depending on his arm. Kinda reminds me of Elway.

This year so far, there is no question that Brady is more important to the Patriots than ever and if he keeps playing this way that he should be the unanimous NFL MVP.
 
This is half-right.

You guess which half.


So you did follow Manning through his College days? Cool I really didn't pay attention that much, College football isn't really that big in southern Indiana where I live, we have IU to look forward to and they have sucked every year since 93, although this year I think were going to be above .500 for the first time in 14 years...
 
Uh..... That would be the Indianapolis Colts last year?

That's good really.
They won a DIVISIONAL ROUND out doors last year. They also did it in 2003 when they beat the Chiefs.

Now, find a dome team that won a league championship while playing out of doors.
 
what has happened in the past has nothing to do with now, new things are happening all the time, the Rams were the first dome team to win a superbowl, the Colts were the 2nd, and we can be the first to win a championship playing outdoors, seriously the playing outdoors part is way overrated, but if you want to go ahead and keep believing that, thats fine..

Both won their Conferences at home, in a dome.

No team dome has EVER won either the AFC or the NFC while playing the championship game outside, in January.
I think that is VERY relevant.
 
That's good really.
They won a DIVISIONAL ROUND out doors last year. They also did it in 2003 when they beat the Chiefs.

Now, find a dome team that won a league championship while playing out of doors.

I guess we still don't understand your question, the Colts won the League championship last year in Miami while playing outdoors, is this a trick question or something, as this is about as obvious as Brittany Spears being in the news next week for blowing her nose in public the wrong way..
 
Brady 12 and 2, Manning 7 and 6.

I'm sorry, football is a team sport. You are showing signs of being infected the homerism virus.

The two QBs are about as even as you can get.

I think it's a sign of strength to be gracious to your opponents, and give them their just dues. Manning is a phenomenal QB.

Personally I like our guy, but so what? I mean SO WHAT?
 
Both won their Conferences at home, in a dome.

No team dome has EVER won either the AFC or the NFC while playing the championship game outside, in January.
I think that is VERY relevant.

oh you mean conference championship, not league championship, thats where you had us lost, you are correct about that, but there is a first time for everything. I am just wondering are the Colts still going to be considered a Dome team next year if they play all there games with the roof opened? I hope they do play all the games with the roof opened..
 
I guess we still don't understand your question, the Colts won the League championship last year in Miami while playing outdoors, is this a trick question or something, as this is about as obvious as Brittany Spears being in the news next week for blowing her nose in public the wrong way..

NFC or AFC.
I guess I meant CONFERENCE championship as opposed to super bowl.
Sorry for the confusion.
Now find one.
 
NFC or AFC.
I guess I meant CONFERENCE championship as opposed to super bowl.
Sorry for the confusion.
Now find one.

I think if any team can be the first team to do it, its the Colts..am I being a homer for thinking this? of course I am, I am a Colts fan and if I thought otherwise I wouldn't be a true fan. I know the Colts would have to play a near perfect game with no mistakes to even come close to winning and even that might not be enough if the game is against the Pats..
 
I'm sorry, football is a team sport. You are showing signs of being infected the homerism virus.

The two QBs are about as even as you can get.

I think it's a sign of strength to be gracious to your opponents, and give them their just dues. Manning is a phenomenal QB.

Personally I like our guy, but so what? I mean SO WHAT?

Actually, anyone who looks at their postseason numbers (see CHFF) will see that it's not homerism. It's simply a reflection of how they've played in big games. Brady has simply been a far better quarterback in big games.
 
Actually, anyone who looks at their postseason numbers (see CHFF) will see that it's not homerism. It's simply a reflection of how they've played in big games. Brady has simply been a far better quarterback in big games.

its hard to argue with that. Brady has played alot better in big games..
 
The Colts aren't facing the same Pats team anymore. You now have to face the best Offense in the history of football, along with an improved defense. Good luck.

I say we keep Moss, Stallworth, and Welker for 3-4 years and see how many records Brady breaks. Then there will no longer be a question. Brady will be undenyable the greatest ever.

Brady vs. Manning is getting a little old for me. It's not much of a comparision any more.

Playoff records and head to head competition pretty much say everything.

For me, it's simple:

I know Brady can win/dominate (so far!) with superstar wide receivers (2007)

I know Brady can win with decent wide receivers. (2001, 2003, 2004)

I know Brady can go deep in the playoffs (a few minutes from the SB against Rex Grossman) with mediocre wide receivers (2005)

I know Manning can make it into the playoffs consistently (2002!!, 2003, 2004, 2005!!, and even win it all (2006) with superstar wide receivers.

I DON'T KNOW if Manning can win or even make the playoffs with decent or mediocre wide receivers.

Those are the facts. Now for the speculation:

It appears (from looking at them on TV, so who really knows) that, the greater the pressure situation, the more serene and comfortable Brady is and the more flustered and uncomfortable Manning is. Brady embraces these moments; Manning struggles with them.

I'll take Tom Brady over Peyton Manning, thank you. :) :)
 
The only problem with your ranting is that no QB has his own won/loss record and "Brady" CAN'T go undefeated this year. The Patriots can go undefeated, but not Brady. why would anyone even make the statement "Brady will go undefeated"? In what? match-play golf?

Actually, he can. So can Bill Belichick. :D
 
Ref, extra heat, the refs cheated, pumped in noise, do you have any other excuses to add to you list? The Pats lost, get over it and quit making excuses..it really makes you look bad..I haven't made any about the last game, we lost, no excuses.

I have not made any excuses here.

Just the truth.

Manning will go down as the greatest choker in history, and history for him is at the midway point. He will never beat the Pats again in the playoffs.
 
That pretty much sums it all up neatly.
The hardware count is clearly on Brady's side, 3 Trophies to 1, soon to be 4 to 1.
The only leg Manning supporters had to stand on before was the statistical superiority of his 49 TD record season.

Now that Brady is going to shatter that 49 TD mark, there is no viable comparison left.
Brady is better both statistically speaking, and from a big game, championship totals comparison. Brady is the best QB there is in today's NFL, and possibly the best ever.

Brady vs. Manning is getting a little old for me. It's not much of a comparision any more.

Playoff records and head to head competition pretty much say everything.

For me, it's simple:

I know Brady can win/dominate (so far!) with superstar wide receivers (2007)

I know Brady can win with decent wide receivers. (2001, 2003, 2004)

I know Brady can go deep in the playoffs (a few minutes from the SB against Rex Grossman) with mediocre wide receivers (2005)

I know Manning can make it into the playoffs consistently (2002!!, 2003, 2004, 2005!!, and even win it all (2006) with superstar wide receivers.

I DON'T KNOW if Manning can win or even make the playoffs with decent or mediocre wide receivers.

Those are the facts. Now for the speculation:

It appears (from looking at them on TV, so who really knows) that, the greater the pressure situation, the more serene and comfortable Brady is and the more flustered and uncomfortable Manning is. Brady embraces these moments; Manning struggles with them.

I'll take Tom Brady over Peyton Manning, thank you. :) :)
 
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I have not made any excuses here.

Just the truth.

Manning will go down as the greatest choker in history, and history for him is at the midway point. He will never beat the Pats again in the playoffs.

I didn't see anything in your post that can be proven so you can't exactly call it the truth. as far as the Colts never beating the Pats in the playoffs ever again? You will eat those words someday..
 
That pretty much sums it all up neatly.
The hardware count is clearly on Brady's side, 3 Trophies to 1, soon to be 4 to 1.
The only leg Manning supporters had to stand on before was the statistical superiority of his 49 TD record season.

Now that Brady is going to shatter that 49 TD mark, there is no viable comparison left.
Brady is better both statistically speaking, and from a big game, championship totals comparison. Brady is the best QB there is in today's NFL, and possibly the best ever.

Does this actually still get debated here? I have no argument as far as Brady being the betting QB at this time in there careers, Brady has a better playoff record, More superbowl wins and looks like the 49 td mark of Mannings will go down...its really not even debateable at this point in time who the better quarterback is. but each team has to have a good supporting cast for these two quarterbacks to have the kinds of seasons they have had, Brady has been blessed to have great defense to back him up, he can have an "off game" and still win, in the early days Manning couldn't have an off game or the Colts would lose. Now Manning has the luxury of having a decent defense to help carry the team. Like the playoffs last year, Manning didn't have great numbers in the playoffs, hell he had borderline good numbers and the defense really carried them to the SB. Not here to troll people just looking for some decent football talk, lord knows it can't be found on the Colts board right now..
 
To add a little to the college part, I'm a Michigan guy so I saw a lot of Brady during his college years. I thought I could add a little perspective on their formative years:

-Brady was EXTREMELY underrated. His first year as a starter (that's right he was a two year starter, not Drew Henson's backup as a lot of people for some reason seem to think), in 1998, he inherited a team that had lost most of its best players (especially on defense) to the NFL Draft and/or graduation following Michigan's National Championship the previous year. They lost their first two games including a massacre courtesy of Donovan McNabb and Syracuse when they were actually good. Brady nevertheless bounced back and led UM to an 10-3 record with the 1 other loss coming against OSU. Yeah, Brady LOST his first BIG game but it was more the defense's fault than his. He actually set the UM single game passing yds record trying to will the team back. The Bowl game? Brady and UM scored 21 points in the final 5:49 of the game to beat Arkansas. His first sucessfull BIG game comeback.

-His senior year, he was given a good offense but, once again, a ****ty defense. If you want proof that he had "it" from the get go, look a this season. He was flawless against Heisman winner Ron Dayne's Wisconsin on the road. He had epic comebacks against:
-Notre Dame (go ahead- TD with 1:38 left)
-at Penn State (I get chills on the replay of that game hearing Keith Jackson after Brady had pulled out the gritty comeback: "the most underrated quarterback in America")
-at Indiana: when they had Randle-El at QB and were actually good. Picture this: tough game tied, 1:25 left, Michigan gets the ball at their 25, Brady at QB, what happens? Game winning FG after a hell of a drive.
-Ohio State: threw 2 touchdowns, one to tie, the other for the win with less than 2 minutes remaining.

His best performance, and probably the game that sparked the whole Brady vs. Henson controversy was, ironically, in a valiant loss against Michigan State. For some reason, Carr yanked Brady for Henson after the 1st quarter. Result? Michigan down 27-10 in the fourth quarter with Plaxico Burress scoring at will. Enter Brady and a near epic comeback. He led them to three straight touchdown drives, even as the defense couldn't prevent MSU from scoring. He got better and better. His first drive: 6-10, 70 yd. drive, his second: 8-8, 75 yd. drive. His last drive started at UM's 4 yard line, down by 10, less than 5 minutes left. He went 10-12 for all 96 yards and scored again to trim the lead to 34-31 with less than 3 minutes left. Unfortunately, MSU recovered the onsides kick and the UM defense, once again, failed to stop MSU and the clock ran out. This loss was infuriating and is the source of all the Brady vs. Henson quarterback controversy. However, it was the only game this happened to such a degree. Nevertheless, imagine if Brady would have played the whole game. An unnecessary loss but, on the bright side, it's simply chilling to remember that game and think about what Brady eventually turned into. It gave anybody that saw it a glimpse at budding greatness, in a loss.

- Brady's stats in college don't even compare to all the records Manning set at UT but look at the big games. In 4 years, Manning NEVER beat Florida (UT's version of Ohio State). Before Bill Belichick assumed parental duties over Manning, Steve Spurrier was his daddy. He threw 4 interceptions his junior year. He was the Heisman front runner in 97 before he choked and lost against Florida on national TV, throwing 2 interceptions and losing handily. UT then threw out excuse after excuse and whined to such an extent that the governor of the state joined the whining (sound familiar?) when Manning finished second in the Heisman race to Charles Woodson.

Compare Brady's final game with Manning's:

Brady: 35-34 WIN vs. Alabama (and Shaun Alexander) in OT. Stats: 36-46 369 yds, 4 TD's, 0 INT's (He set an Orange Bowl record for passing yards) (If this isn't clutch I don't know what is)

Manning: LOST 41-17 vs Nebraska, stats: 21-31 134 yards, no TDs. 1 INT. Afterwards, Phil Fulmer was so bitter that Manning was humiliated and lost the Heisman to Woodson that he voted Michigan fourth on the final coaches' poll.

Yeah, I mildly remember my U. of Michigan history :) . Hope this gave a little insight ;)
 
It's funny for me to see Pats/Brady fans convincing themselves that they have the best QB in the league. Colts fans don't usually debate the topic. We already know that Manning is better. It's just understood. We dont have to dig up every imaginable stat dating back to his college years to convince ourselves.

For the record...what Brady is doing this year is amazing and he is a great QB...but that doesnt make him the best.
 
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