OT: Russell Wilson & Seahawks relationship deteriorating

amfootball said:

I don't want this to come across the wrong way because I think Wilson is an amazing QB and for sure elite but he is not at the level of Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady. He has always been just a tick below. I think most of it is due to his height. He just can't see well enough from the pocket and while he is great at making something happen from broken plays ala Mahomes, he just isn't consistent enough from the pocket.

That all being said, what in the world is Seattle doing? They threw that ball in SB 49 because they saw Wilson as the future of that team and not the LOB defense/Lynch. It seems they keep waffling on the guy. They paid him like he was the best QB prior to Mahomes' monster deal and now they don't want to tailor things for him? Head scratching. They really should have fired Petey after SB 49.

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Spot on...both points.

You pay a guy that much money and then disregard his input on what he needs to be successful?

Jerry Krause syndrome seems to be a common NFL thing...these teams think they’re so smart for ”developing” the star QB.

AlexB said:

The Bucs (before Brady signed) were more talented than the Chargers, Bears, or Saints?

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Yes

If I had to guess which team he gets traded to, it's Miami based on the #3 pick and Tua, which is more attractive than any Jets package of Darnold plus the #2.

Actually, if they trade him with a post-June 1 designation, his cap hits (3 years at $13 Million/year) aren't that bad.

bresna said:

Actually, if they trade him with a post-June 1 designation, his cap hits (3 years at $13 Million/year) aren't that bad.

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I have a terrible fear he ends up in Miami.

TommyBrady12 said:

Yes

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Same Bucs that were +6,600 to win the Super Bowl (tied with the Jets) and had worse odds than the Jaguars (who have the number 1 overall pick)? Lol ok, will have to agree to disagree here.

Wilson is looking at the Brady situation and thinks its easy to just switch teams and win a SB. But he won't bring the same credibility that Brady brought as the GOAT and will probably just get frustrated at his new team in 1-2 years, particularly with that contract.

TommyBrady12 said:

Brady's situation is different in that he just picked a team that had an abundance of talent. Zero chance he wins a SB this past year with LA Chargers, or Bears. Maybe he gets one with the Saints but that's about it.

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That's why you were parroting the entire year that they had no chance of coming close to a SB, then kept doubling down that they were 1-5 against playoff teams.

Now that they won it all, they were a Dream Team all along.

Just stop it.

Kargetina said:

That's why you were parroting the entire year that they had no chance of coming close to a SB, then kept doubling down that they were 1-5 against playoff teams.

Now that they won it all, they were a Dream Team all along.

Just stop it.

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Yep. Everyone knew the Bucs had talent but between Arians and the lack of discipline and loser mentality that has been ingrained in that org, no one predicted a SB win in year one much less on the road going thru Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes scoring 30+ points in every single playoff game.

These quarterbacks think they're going to pull a 2020 Brady.

AlexB said:

Same Bucs that were +6,600 to win the Super Bowl (tied with the Jets) and had worse odds than the Jaguars (who have the number 1 overall pick)? Lol ok, will have to agree to disagree here.

Wilson is looking at the Brady situation and thinks its easy to just switch teams and win a SB. But he won't bring the same credibility that Brady brought as the GOAT and will probably just get frustrated at his new team in 1-2 years, particularly with that contract.

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That's easy to settle.

Have Brady move over to Jacksonville. Let's see what happens.

In 2019 Tampa went 7-9 with a dude throwing 30+ picks and something like 8 pick 6's. That's very easy math.

What an absolute disaster if both Watson and Wilson end up in the AFC East

Texans are not trading Watson.
Every report is Caserio is saying no.

Teams are not going to give up the rarest asset in the sport this easily. Watson and Wilson are dreaming if they think they can move on like this.

patsfanincleveland said:

That's easy to settle.

Have Brady move over to Jacksonville. Let's see what happens.

In 2019 Tampa went 7-9 with a dude throwing 30+ picks and something like 8 pick 6's. That's very easy math.

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Do you realize that Tampa had the worst winning percentage of any team in NFL history prior to Brady coming? They were called the Suckaneers for a reason.

AlexB said:

Same Bucs that were +6,600 to win the Super Bowl (tied with the Jets) and had worse odds than the Jaguars (who have the number 1 overall pick)? Lol ok, will have to agree to disagree here.

Wilson is looking at the Brady situation and thinks its easy to just switch teams and win a SB. But he won't bring the same credibility that Brady brought as the GOAT and will probably just get frustrated at his new team in 1-2 years, particularly with that contract.

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When Brady signed Tampa had some good pieces but were not at that super team status. The moves made after Brady signed were huge and shouldn’t be discounted. In the draft their top 2 picks helped solidify their 2 biggest weaknesses other than replacing Winston (OL snd Secondary). Trading for Gronk ended up being huge for them. At the very least he would improve the in line blocking but he still showed he could do it all at a high level after losing Howard. Add in Antonio brown as your #3 and fournette to the rb group. Devin white making the year 2 jump. They improved drastically after Brady signed but make no mistake Tom was the most important piece not only performance wise compared to Winston but due to his leadership as well. He made a team that had become accustomed to losing believe they could win.

upstater1 said:

Teams are not going to give up the rarest asset in the sport this easily. Watson and Wilson are dreaming if they think they can move on like this.

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Exactly. Let's play this out. QB grumbles then what? Refuses to play? So the team plays hardball. The QB ruins his own stats and possible hof career. Entire fanbase now hates him. Then what ? This isn't the NBA...


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Kargetina said:

That's why you were parroting the entire year that they had no chance of coming close to a SB, then kept doubling down that they were 1-5 against playoff teams.

Now that they won it all, they were a Dream Team all along.

Just stop it.

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Wrong. I said they were 1-5 against playoff teams heading into the playoffs (which is factually true), but I never once said the Bucs weren't talented. Brady didn't go to Tampa and magically pull a rabbit out of his hat. The Bucs had a talented defense and playmakers on offense. Then Brady brings along Gronk and Brown.

Wilson and Watson's situations are different. They are smart enough to realize that they won't pull a Brady in their first year with any new club and win a title, and they know they cannot dictate which actual team they get traded to. Some of you think that these guys are dumb. It's not about Brady for them - it's about the lack of respect their teams are giving them.

patsfanincleveland said:

That's easy to settle.

Have Brady move over to Jacksonville. Let's see what happens.

In 2019 Tampa went 7-9 with a dude throwing 30+ picks and something like 8 pick 6's. That's very easy math.

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And he was a fumbler, guy was a turnover machine.

patsfanincleveland said:

As 2020 progressed, RW went from MVP favorite to leader of a dreadful offense. Now they have to pay that Metcalf dude and shipped picks to the Jets.

Any QB looking in the $40M cap range over the next few years has issues. Considering the fact that Seattle hasn't really been a Super Bowl contender since 2014.........where is there to go?

Maybe one and done is fine for some but not everyone.

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I looked it up because I was curious. Wilson really hasn't done much since his super bowl loss. A pretty massive under performance for all the talk about him. He has yet to reach the NFCCG since losing to the Patriots. He's been to the playoffs 5 out of 6 years without a losing season which is good.... but you need to actually make a deep run or people will likely question you. Here are his 5 loses in the playoffs since the SB.

DIV 2015 @ CAR - He tossed 2 early picks (including a pick 6) which gave up 10 points. The other one happened in FG range. He did nothing the first half while his team fell 0-31. He scored in the 2nd half but he dug his hole too deep and lost 24-31.

DIV 2016 @ ATL - He didn't have a good game here either. Though this one is a bit more on his D. He lost 36-20. This one kind of got away from the Seahawks in the 2nd and early 3rd quarter. Wilson taking a safety wasn't REALLY his fault, but you if you get your foot stepped on and fall back into the end zone maybe your footwork could use some work. While I don't put this loss on him, he did fail to elevate his team. Maybe he couldn't win, but it could have been closer. At least he could have kept within striking distance in the 4th with a few more plays made. It's telling that Hester the returner may well have been the most impactful player for the Seahawks this game.

2017 MISSED

WC 2018 @ DAL - This game is on Wilson. He didn't throw it away, he was just ineffective. They had 12 possessions and score 20 points, half of it on short fields. His stats look nice at 18/27 233 yards 1 pass TD 1 rush TD and 0 turnovers. But this is a case of just kind of waiting around to win. 2/13 on 3rd down was huge. You don't win many games when that happens. Interestingly, this is the only post season win for Dak an the cowboys. Wilson and the Seahawks allowed them to play exactly the kind of game they wanted to. A nice slow, run the ball grind it out in the 4th kind of game. It's also worth noting this game was 14-17 until the final few minutes. Dallas scored to put it out of reach at 14-24. The Seahakws do a big drive quickly and then fail to get the onside kick. There was just no urgency to score points until it was too late. 22-24

DIV 2019 @ GB - Another slow start. They end the half down 3-21. Allowing Rodgers and GB to play from ahead the rest of the way. Wilson leads another almost come back which makes his stats look amazing but stalls at the end. Interestingly the Seahawks DOMINATED TOP in the 2nd half, and were happy to have nice long drives down 3-21 and then 10-28. There was a huge lack of urgency here from Wilson and the Seahwks. You don't settled for drives of 5+ minutes when you are down multiple TDs in the second half. Wilson again ends up with a nice stat line and almost heroic come back, but it seems he didn't understand the need for urgency. 23-28

WC 2020 LAR @ SEA - This game really is about 2 plays for Wilson. The pick 6 and the 50 yard TD to Metcalf. Outside of that it was kind of just a 'wait for my team to win' game for him, even as they were slowly pushed further behind in the 2nd half. A late TD drive helps his stats but he basically did nothing all game besides that big TD pass until garbage time. The Rams have a good D, but this is not good enough. 20-30 score

Overall Wilson's entire career is really built around that first run in the playoffs with that absolutely dynamic D and with great weapons around him. Outside of that, in the playoffs when you really look at it he has lacked a sense of the moment and displayed a willingness to kind of sit back and hope it works out. His almost comebacks always seem to be too little or too late. The fact of the matter is besides his super bowl run, he has been pretty choky in the playoffs. His appearance in 2014 to play the Patriots only happened because as hard as he choked in the NFCCG vs GB, Rodgers choked even harder.

When you really examine his career it is built on 2 of the biggest choke jobs of all time happening against him (Peyton and Rodgers) when he didn't really play well in either of those games. This isn't to say he isn't HOF level, but he doesn't lift up his team very often. At this point I don't see him being in the top 10 discussion unless we see some massive changes in his play over his final 6-9 years

TommyBrady12 said:

Brady's situation is different in that he just picked a team that had an abundance of talent. Zero chance he wins a SB this past year with LA Chargers, or Bears. Maybe he gets one with the Saints but that's about it.

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Why couldn’t he? Did it with the 2001 Pats