Marcus Mariota

Ring 6 said:

They changed it for newton.

My take on Mariota is the things that he needs better coaching on, are the things that the patriots scheme puts a lot of focus on. Coaching up those areas could really elevate his game. Those areas are: presnap reads, taking what the defense is giving and not passing up an open receiver hoping to find a more open or deeper one. This really fits together with better presnap reads, commitment to progressions and the way the progressions are built and called.
Mariota plus a first round qb sounds like a good plan to me.

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You make it sound like others haven't tried working with him on those presnap reads and progressions. There's a reason the Titans sat him for Tannehill. Tannehill was a subpar QB in MIA, yet he beat Mariota out of the starting QB job. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for someone that may cost $20M.

venecol said:

You make it sound like others haven't tried working with him on those presnap reads and progressions. There's a reason the Titans sat him for Tannehill. Tannehill was a subpar QB in MIA, yet he beat Mariota out of the starting QB job. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for someone that may cost $20M.

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Sometimes people need a change of scenery change of system.
Tannenhill was a first round pick.
It’s not like we are talking about pick 199 going on to win the job and change a franchise forever.

venecol said:

You make it sound like others haven't tried working with him on those presnap reads and progressions. There's a reason the Titans sat him for Tannehill. Tannehill was a subpar QB in MIA, yet he beat Mariota out of the starting QB job. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for someone that may cost $20M.

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How did I make it sound like that?
I said it’s what he needs and it’s a huge focus in this system. We try to get the ball out faster than anyone.
Mariota doesn’t cost 20 million.

Who else would be better?

ChrisR2223 said:

Sometimes people need a change of scenery change of system.
Tannenhill was a first round pick.
It’s not like we are talking about pick 199 going on to win the job and change a franchise forever.

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Tannehill always showed flashes of promise. Mariota has never looked like he was going to make it in this league

So apparently Mariota's incentives are a lot easier to reach than originally thought.
12+ games with 60% of snaps, 0 wins: $18.2M
12+ games with 60% of snaps, 7 wins: $19.3M
12+ games with 60% of snaps, 12+ wins: $20.1M (max prior to postseason bonuses)

That middle option is what Newton did for $15M less this past season.

Ring 6 said:

How did I make it sound like that?
I said it’s what he needs and it’s a huge focus in this system. We try to get the ball out faster than anyone.
Mariota doesn’t cost 20 million.

Who else would be better?

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Ok.

My understanding is he has an escalator tgat if he plays 12 games he gets another $9M or so over his $10.7M salary. That's $20M to me. Too much if true (it may not be but its been discussed here).

I don't think there's anyone worthwhile out there (within reason - Watson isn't coming here). That's why I've suggested we build up the D to a top 5 unit, fill in skill player holes, get a low cost bridge QB, and try again next year.

Even if Mac Jones is the guy and they draft him at #15, he probably won't be ready anyway, but that at least would be awesome.

I know you believe it can all be done this year because of the $62M. I just don't believe that's realistic at all with the lack of talent (everywhere) and the QB situation. We'll see.

the escalators would be applied to 2022 cap, though, for what it's worth......because he did not hit those marks for the 2020 season, they are considered NLTBE in 2021.......so if they are hit, they are applied to 2022......so his 2021 hit WOULD be that 10mil or so figure

someone explained this a page or three back

yukon cornelius said:

the escalators would be applied to 2022 cap, though, for what it's worth......because he did not hit those marks for the 2020 season, they are considered NLTBE in 2021.......so if they are hit, they are applied to 2022......so his 2021 hit WOULD be that 10mil or so figure

someone explained this a page or three back

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Yea probably, I don't care about cap gimmick stuff. Would the Pats be paying this guy $20M for 2021 yes or no? If yes, that's too much for Mariota.

venecol said:

Yea probably, I don't care about cap gimmick stuff. Would the Pats be paying this guy $20M for 2021 yes or no? If yes, that's too much for Mariota.

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If he is the starter and plays 12+ games but wins no games, he hits the cap for $10m in 2021 and $8m in 2022. But that is not realistic; if he isn't winning anything they'll sit him before he hits those incentives.

If he is the starter and plays 12+ games and wins at least 7 games, he hits the cap for $10m in 2021 and $9m in 2022. Unless he somehow wins a ton early and fades late, by mid-season if they are 4-4 they know he's not the answer and can avoid those incentives to avoid the hit in 2022.

If he is the starter and plays 12+ games and wins at least 12 games, he hits the cap for $10m in 2021 and $10m in 2022. At that point I am fine with that price, and he is probably worthy of an extension, so the year 2 hit probably gets overwritten anyway.

Having said all of that... Bill isn't really the type of guy to sit someone who is playing hard to avoid an incentive, so I feel like while they could easily avoid the big payouts, they wouldn't (unless he is really winning zero games by midseason). Therefore a trade doesn't seem real likely to me unless it's for a really late pick, and Bill decides to just accept he may have to lose an extra $9m in 2022 for a mediocre season in exchange for the pick sent over being very low. Even if he only wins 7 or 8 games but the offense is headed in the right direction, that $9m is worth the stability gained and an extension is signed that makes it less of a big deal.

They could just wait for him to be cut in Free Agency, but I think they may want to settle the position before then.

ChrisR2223 said:

Sometimes people need a change of scenery change of system.
Tannenhill was a first round pick.
It’s not like we are talking about pick 199 going on to win the job and change a franchise forever.

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Mariota also a degree of success in Tennessee. It’s not like we are talking about a total failure. He just needs to improve in some areas, and those areas are very affected by coaching

venecol said:

Ok.

My understanding is he has an escalator tgat if he plays 12 games he gets another $9M or so over his $10.7M salary. That's $20M to me. Too much if true (it may not be but its been discussed here).

I don't think there's anyone worthwhile out there (within reason - Watson isn't coming here). That's why I've suggested we build up the D to a top 5 unit, fill in skill player holes, get a low cost bridge QB, and try again next year.

Even if Mac Jones is the guy and they draft him at #15, he probably won't be ready anyway, but that at least would be awesome.

I know you believe it can all be done this year because of the $62M. I just don't believe that's realistic at all with the lack of talent (everywhere) and the QB situation. We'll see.

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No it’s not 20 mill and no doubt he would sign an extension any way.

This team was 7-9 with the worst QBs play in the league. They would have been 9-7 or better with just mediocre qb play, pretty indisputably.
62 mill plus the opt outs back and however much is added to that 62 mill through other transaction is enough to improve half of the spots on the roster.

luuked said:

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I just posted something based off this video, so I'll just make it easy and include the transcription here:

This is what Ian Rapoport said in the above video:

“The way I would describe it is, as teams have called about Derek Carr, look, there’s a price for everything, right? So if you offer multiple, many, numerous first-round picks, could Derek Carr be traded? Conceivably,” said Rapoport. “But he is in the Raiders’ plans for the 2021 season. That is my understanding and I’d be, frankly, surprised at this point if that changes.”

“Different situation for Marcus Mariota. He’s due $10-million. Teams have called for Carr, yes, but they’ve also called for Mariota. He’s generated trade interest and based on my knowledge right now, I would be very surprised if Marcus Mariota is on the Raiders for the 2021 season. The Raiders have gotten some offers for him. It sounds like there’s probably been enough interest in Mariota, who really did stand out late in the season. There’s been enough interest as far as a potential trade to where he is now likely to not be on the team. It would save them some money, certainly, and maybe give some draft compensation back as well. And for Mariota, he would get the chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL, once again.”

venecol said:

Yea probably, I don't care about cap gimmick stuff. Would the Pats be paying this guy $20M for 2021 yes or no? If yes, that's too much for Mariota.

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no

they'd be paying him 10.....with potential to pay the extra 9mil in 2022

Ian said:

I just posted something based off this video, so I'll just make it easy and include the transcription here:

This is what Ian Rapoport said in the above video:

“The way I would describe it is, as teams have called about Derek Carr, look, there’s a price for everything, right? So if you offer multiple, many, numerous first-round picks, could Derek Carr be traded? Conceivably,” said Rapoport. “But he is in the Raiders’ plans for the 2021 season. That is my understanding and I’d be, frankly, surprised at this point if that changes.”

“Different situation for Marcus Mariota. He’s due $10-million. Teams have called for Carr, yes, but they’ve also called for Mariota. He’s generated trade interest and based on my knowledge right now, I would be very surprised if Marcus Mariota is on the Raiders for the 2021 season. The Raiders have gotten some offers for him. It sounds like there’s probably been enough interest in Mariota, who really did stand out late in the season. There’s been enough interest as far as a potential trade to where he is now likely to not be on the team. It would save them some money, certainly, and maybe give some draft compensation back as well. And for Mariota, he would get the chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL, once again.”

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I'm not getting into any kind of bidding war for this dude.

Attention K-mart shoppers....

captain stone said:

I'm not getting into any kind of bidding war for this dude.

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A bidding war is better than having cam Newton

Mack Herron said:

Attention K-mart shoppers....

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A lot will be going down in the next week as teams have to get under the cap to start the league year. There should definitely be record levels of cuts, trades ano restructures.

Ring 6 said:

A lot will be going down in the next week as teams have to get under the cap to start the league year. There should definitely be record levels of cuts, trades ano restructures.

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This could play right into our hands

Ring 6 said:

A bidding war is better than having cam Newton

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I disagree. If we have to give anything more than a 5th for Mariota... sign me up for Cam 2.0 & a rookie.