Belichick criticism mega-thread

upstater1 said:

Arians really doesn't know WTF he's talking about. Took him forever to figure out it might be good to put someone in motion so you can give Brady the advantage of reading a defense. I'm not going to blame Leftwich because all of Arians' former players say he is very stubborn and always wants it done his way.

I still have very little faith in Arians. As for Bowles, I liked him with the Jets and would not have fired him. He's good.

Belichick, by the way, doesn't care about style or system. He cares about winning. Used Brady's skills to his advantage for years. Flipped the switch to Newton and RPO offense overnight. Not stubborn at all. Hell, BB will change styles in game. 3-4. 4-3. Attack. Zone. Whatever. What's going to help him win?

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If BB cared about winning, he would have kept Brady

Quod erat demonstrandum.

1960Pats said:

How'd the Pats do in 2016-2019. Oh yeah, 4 playoff appearances, 3 AFC titles and 2 SB wins. Every QB should have such a "decline."

Even in 2019, when the team had no TEs, no WR's, most of the OL and both FB's injured, they still got to 12-4, which could have been 13-3 and HFA if not for a blatant bad call by a Raven's fan posing as an impartial official.

Anyone who'd dare refer to Brady as a 2005 Honda Civic in any way needs to take a step back as a fan of the Patriots. It's a sick joke on a guy who gave us 20 years of GOATdom. It's also comical seeing someone use all those failed QBs as an example of Brady being too old when he's won 3 or 4 SBs beyond those ages.

And finally, the only crying I see right now is you whining about Pats fans who don't agree with your take on things. A large majority of Pats fans support and appreciate both Brady and Belichick, but some us wanted to see Brady finish his career here.

Stick to Balcoball.

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Yes this criticism is laughable. The Pats "sucked" so bad with Brady in 2019 that they had a 10-0 start and would have taken HFA easily if not for injuries and horrible game plans in last 2 games. Not only did Brady get to the Superbowl in 2016-2018, his "decline" year in 2019 he had a better record than with the Bucs this year. 2016-2019 "decline" is a bad joke.

jmt57 said:

LOL, yet in between all of that (and your thousands of other posts) you paint a picture in which one person (and one person only) should get 100% of the credit for all successes, and any and all shortcomings are rationalized and to be blamed on someone/something else. It's the same thought process religious zealots and political extremists have for their cult leader, while every such movement must also have an opponent to demonize. There is no color gray, just 100% black and white.

You're right. Tom the Father, Tom the Son and Tom the Holy Ghost walks on water. He once fed the entire planet with five loaves of bread and two fish. He has never sinned, nor has any part of his play ever had anything to do with his team not winning a championship that season - nor will it ever be.

I see the light; I am now born again. Please excuse me while I start building my altar.

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I am happy to spread the gospel one person at a time.

jmt57 said:

I'm not sure about that; he seems to be far more focused and preoccupied on his version of the devil than his savior.

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Brady said "But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is Belichick. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"

Biffins said:

Brady said "But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is Belichick. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"

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He wasn't talking about ass cheeks.

jmt57 said:

Please let the world know what you have ever said negative about Brady, or positive about anyone else associated with the Patriots.

Again, your world is black and white with no gray. I am left to speculate that you must have seen BB walk out of your mom's bedroom one day, then pissing in your Cheerios on his way out the door.

The fact that you think all the "best threads" are in the Tom Brady Forum speaks volumes. Threads that derail away from the original subject into discussion about TB12 will end up here, as do threads that more appropriately belong in the Pub Forum or some other forum.

It's no wonder that you are on your third screen name here.

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haha this is hilarious. The mods got into a hissy fit that their beloved Belichick was being criticized that they moved this thread into the Tom Brady forum. I mean if the FRICKIN CRITICISM is of Belichick's decision to release Tom Brady, and mismanage the roster, then it's a thread about our CURRENT head coach and GM's ineptness and a relevant topic.

Compounded by BB's possible decision to retire early, after scuttling our roster, this thread is even more relevant.

But the Team Bill Fan Club (aka Pats Fans Forums Mods) got their panties in a bunch by all the mudslinging at their beloved BB and are locking up one thread after another and moving them out of the main forum to stop the discussions pronto.

Bravo guys, bravo. Keep showing your true colours. You all truly graduated from Herr Goodell's school of administration.

crawhammer said:

Can you explain this comment? Because I don't even know what you mean.

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You've been banned twice and are now on your third screen name. Ring a bell?

You are a troll who was nowhere to be seen when the Patriots were winning super bowls, but suddenly became the forum's most prolific poster once the Pats were eliminated from the playoffs. Frankly I consider you to beneath the troll attack from other teams 14 years ago. And spare me the 'used to have season tickets' line. While I am sure it is true, it doesn't mean that you hate the Patriots now. In fact I can recall you saying words to the effect that you are not currently a fan of the team.

Do yourself a huge favor and place me on ignore.

Biffins said:

Why is every Mod on this forum on Team Bill. Just a curiosity.

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I'm not, and I know for a fact some lean towards TB12. I just find the Belichick bashing to be a bit over the top.

Belichick certainly prospered thanks to Brady.
Brady is by far and away the GOAT, plus he also benefitted from BB and his various teammates through the years..

It is not a binary, either/or situation. Despite what the sports media would have you believe, nobody has to choose one, and build a gallows pole for the other.


Belichick has made plenty of mistakes; we are all in agreement. I just don't feel a need to spam the forum with 1,000 links over the course of a month from every corner of the internet to say the same thing over and over and over again. The point has been made. Maybe Ian can investigate into a software add-on that places a cap on the number of poster per day or per month. There are plenty of other topics to discuss, unless we instead agree to just change the name of this website to BelichickHaters.com.


This type of single-issue tunnel vision vitriol has unfortunately driven away dozens of genuinely informative and intelligent football minds from the forum over the years; personally I do not want to lose more of those people. Currently the forum has become a written version of the worst of sports talk imaginable: an all-Pats equivalent of listening to nothing but Rob Parker, Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless, Shannon Sharpe, Michael Felger & Mazz, Mike Francesca, Dan LeBetard, Dan Shaughnessy, Woody Paige, Michael Wilbon, Bob Ryan and anybody else that has ever appeared as a panelist on one of those mindless yell-at-each-other TV shows.

Is that what you want this place to be?

Biffins said:

haha this is hilarious. The mods got into a hissy fit that their beloved Belichick was being criticized that they moved this thread into the Tom Brady forum. I mean if the FRICKIN CRITICISM is of Belichick's decision to release Tom Brady, and mismanage the roster, then it's a thread about our CURRENT head coach and GM's ineptness and a relevant topic.

Compounded by BB's possible decision to retire early, after scuttling our roster, this thread is even more relevant.

But the Team Bill Fan Club (aka Pats Fans Forums Mods) got their panties in a bunch by all the mudslinging at their beloved BB and are locking up one thread after another and moving them out of the main forum to stop the discussions pronto.

Bravo guys, bravo. Keep showing your true colours. You all truly graduated from Herr Goodell's school of administration.

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It was moved because it became it derailed into yet another Tom Brady discussion.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Do you know what happened in 2009-12? Floyd Reese came in from Tennessee and advised the Patriots to their most fruitful drafting period under Belichick. Edelman, Chung, Gronkowski, McCourty, Ebner, Hightower, Collins. After he left, it was back to Caserio and a horrendous period of scouting.

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Collins was taken in 2013, after Reese left. And you left off Jones, Hernandez and Vollmer. They got nothing much out of Chung his first stint in NE and I consider him more of a FA acquisition when he returned in 2014.

The drafts from 2010-12 were the most important. This is the reason they finally ended their 10 year drought.

TheRainMaker said:

Collins was taken in 2013, after Reese left. And you left off Jones, Hernandez and Vollmer. They got nothing much out of Chung his first stint in NE and I consider him more of a FA acquisition when he returned in 2014.

The drafts from 2010-12 were the most important. This is the reason they finally ended their 10 year drought.

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Thanks...correcting that.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Thanks...correcting that.

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Oh and Solder.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Bill Belichick is the coach/GM of the Patriots.

We as fans root for the team. Criticizing the coach/GM does not in fact make you less of a fan. I think this is a bad overall look for quite a few to equate Belichick criticism with “you don’t even like the team and are just a Brady fan.” Frankly that’s BS.

Maybe some people are getting extreme and saying they want Belichick gone and maybe the criticism is overboard. But it doesn’t mean it should be moderated out of discussions. Here’s something: Belichick has full autonomy over the team; virtually every coach is one of his disciples; they don’t hire outside people to challenge him; the owner just went all-in by choosing him. Given that, fans may be the only ones who actually demand any accountability or consequences. Have you heard anyone from the organization second guess him for the 2020 offseason, or numerous legitimate mistakes that have been chronicled here? I haven’t.

There are pros but also cons in giving someone full autonomy and all homegrown staff because they develop blind spots to their weaknesses and impunity from criticism. And sorry, but self-criticism and “doing what’s in the team’s best interest” is not the same thing, as they are subjective.

I remember a **** ton of criticism for @Biffins about Antonio Brown and releasing Brady. Guess what? Sometimes “extreme” takes can be closer to the truth than than the mainstream ones.

You all might laugh at me, but Bill Belichick is going to nosedive this franchise if he continues to work only with coordinators and assistants that he groomed and scouts that he taught. It’s bothersome that there truly seems to be no opposition, and it’s reflected by fans too. Pushback is good. I think the outpouring of criticism now is an overreaction but a lot of people realizing that (a) Bill is wrong sometimes too, and (b) now that the team is no longer trending upward, how much leeway should he get? A lot of ignored past mistakes come to the surface.

Do you know what happened in 2009-12? Floyd Reese came in from Tennessee and advised the Patriots to their most fruitful drafting period under Belichick. Edelman, Chung, Gronkowski, McCourty, Ebner, Hightower, Jones. After he left, it was back to Caserio and a horrendous period of scouting.

Bill is great, but the great ones moreso than anyone need people to challenge them, criticize them, and present new ideas. Fans who want to do it constructively and backed by facts and an honest opinion, shouldn’t be marginalized.

@Ian

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I do feel like it's easy to second-guess any decision with the benefit of hindsight, although I've been just as critical recently regarding the Brady decision. Again, I don't feel like that was handled well and I've been pretty open about that.

That being said, I'm not ready to kill the guy over one season and obviously whatever happens this offseason is going to play a role, I'm sure, in everyone's opinions moving forward. I also anticipate a point where if we head into 2021 with a similar group of players and aren't able to bring in impact players this offseason, I expect the vitriol to fly, and I'll be bracing for a rough year.

At the same time, to your point, the reasonable criticism does get drowned out by the ones who just want to say, "he sucks" and then kill the thread. I guess we'll have to start evaluating things and simply boot people out who fall into the latter category for the sake of at least trying to make it productive.

Unfortunately, when you have 20-years of greatness and one bad year, even Belichick snapped off a few times when attacked this past season. I personally don't expect improvement for a few more seasons and it's going to be interesting to see how much longer he's willing to stick around and deal with the amount of criticism that's likely coming. Obviously, we've heard the rumors that 2021 might be the last one, but either way, I'd still rather enjoy it because whether you're frustrated with some of his mistakes or not, we're going to be talking about how great he was 10-years from now likely missing what has been an incredible era in team history.

Notice how the folks who coined the phrase "Team Bill" aren't the ones on "Team Bill".

In fact, we don't actually know who "Team Bill" is, since the people who are allegedly on "Team Bill" haven't actually indicated they're on "Team Bill", or any team for that matter. It was bestowed upon these unknown people by others.

dreighver said:

Notice how the folks who coined the phrase "Team Bill" aren't the ones on "Team Bill".

In fact, we don't actually know who "Team Bill" is, since the people who are allegedly on "Team Bill" haven't actually indicated they're on "Team Bill", or any team for that matter. It was bestowed upon these unknown people by others.

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It seems to me that "Team Bill" is anybody that does not agree with a vocal handful who currently have diarrhea of the keyboard.

In other words anyone who is not on "Team drown the witch, and if it is still alive it is proof it must be a witch - so therefore now we need to hang the witch and then burn the witch".

Ian said:

I do feel like it's easy to second-guess any decision with the benefit of hindsight, although I've been just as critical recently regarding the Brady decision. Again, I don't feel like that was handled well and I've been pretty open about that.

That being said, I'm not ready to kill the guy over one season and obviously whatever happens this offseason is going to play a role, I'm sure, in everyone's opinions moving forward. I also anticipate a point where if we head into 2021 with a similar group of players and aren't able to bring in impact players this offseason, I expect the vitriol to fly, and I'll be bracing for a rough year.

At the same time, to your point, the reasonable criticism does get drowned out by the ones who just want to say, "he sucks" and then kill the thread. I guess we'll have to start evaluating things and simply boot people out who fall into the latter category for the sake of at least trying to make it productive.

Unfortunately, when you have 20-years of greatness and one bad year, even Belichick snapped off a few times when attacked this past season. I personally don't expect improvement for a few more seasons and it's going to be interesting to see how much longer he's willing to stick around and deal with the amount of criticism that's likely coming. Obviously, we've heard the rumors that 2021 might be the last one, but either way, I'd still rather enjoy it because whether you're frustrated with some of his mistakes or not, we're going to be talking about how great he was 10-years from now likely missing what has been an incredible era in team history.

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While you're considering booting people out, I believe there's a Belichick mole on the forum. Everyone is a suspect. That @Steve:Section 102 dude is certainly suspicious. We all need to keep our eyes wide open.

Biffins said:

I am happy to spread the gospel one person at a time.

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jmt57 said:

You've been banned twice and are now on your third screen name. Ring a bell?

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No, it doesn't. Because you're wrong.

Are you lying, randomly making up trash, or mistaken? I mean, why don't you just take this all the way through?... what were my previous two screen names? And what was I banned for? Good luck with that because I was never banned and I'm still on my original screen name. I won't hold my breath waiting on you to correct yourself.

jmt57 said:

You are a troll who was nowhere to be seen when the Patriots were winning super bowls, but suddenly became the forum's most prolific poster once the Pats were eliminated from the playoffs. Frankly I consider you to beneath the troll attack from other teams 14 years ago. And spare me the 'used to have season tickets' line. While I am sure it is true, it doesn't mean that you hate the Patriots now. In fact I can recall you saying words to the effect that you are not currently a fan of the team.

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So not posting on this forum is the same as nowhere to be seen? Like there's no other place on Earth where people are talking New England Patriots.

I've been saying Brady is more important than Belichick since 2008. The team went from the most prolific offense of all-time, and 18-1, to 11-5 and out of the playoffs with everything being equal except for the quarterback. In the last 12 years nothing has changed my mind and then finally we had a season (ironically thanks to Belichick) where we could see how each would fair without the other. So it seemed like a logical time to readdress the debate. Hence I posted a corresponding topic. I hadn't necessarily planned on sticking around, it has just worked out that way.

The last time I posted a topic that was anti-Belichick, back in 2013, I was met with resistance from about 90% of the respondents, and the thread got closed, or perhaps even deleted completely, I don't recall which, but either way I left. If you're being honest, this 2020 season has been so incredibly one-sided with regard to the Brady vs Belichick debate that it has justifiably swayed A LOT of people onto the Brady side. Judging by this forum strictly, Brady holds about a 3-to-1 advantage in terms of receiving more dynasty cred, and Belichick is taking serious criticism from 40-50% of the membership... that's a big jump since 2013 and really the majority of the shift has only occurred in the past few months. And if I'm right about where the next 2-3 seasons are headed for Brady/Tampa Bay and Belichick/New England then the Belichick side is going to be a dwindling minority. This latter part you'll accuse me of trolling, or wishing for it to be so, but you're wrong about that too. Sure, I want Brady to be successful in Tampa Bay, and I think he will continue to be, and I think New England is going to be hopelessly mediocre, but I'd much more prefer that they weren't.

So yeah, call me a troll. It's not making me look bad.

The season tickets (actively) isn't a line either. I'm not sure I even put that out there in the threads. I definitely didn't mention it under this topic so I'm not sure why you're even bringing it up. I also never said I wasn't a fan of the Patriots. I said I was rooting for Tampa Bay (too), which in your narrow view makes me a Patriots hater who burns my season tickets.

jmt57 said:

Do yourself a huge favor and place me on ignore.

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Why?

Lombardi said that they watched Brady in 2013 and thought Brady was in decline. He specifically mentions that Brady wasn't stepping into throws and depth of passes. That is why they drafted Jimmy G. Nevermind the "weapons" on that team. The same happened in 2019. The ironic part is BB & Lombardi don't take into account the weapons on the team but when BB was asked last year about Josh Allen improvement he pointed to his "weapons". It's a circular logic that Brady should elevate mediocre "weapons" if he doesn't then he is in decline. Lombardi literally has said this multiple times about Brady.

jmt57 said:

It was moved because it became it derailed into yet another Tom Brady discussion.

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The discussion was on Belichick's poor roster management. And releasing Brady was part of that.

I suppose if we type "Tom brady" in ANY thread, it should get moved to this forum.

Tomorrow there will be a thread about N'keal Harry and how he prefers Cam Newton's support to Brady's criticism. Then move that thread here too. ANY thread that mentions the word Tom Brady, move that here. Seriously?!?!

The thread is critisizing Belichick. It could be BASHING Belichick. It could be SLAMMING Belichick. It could be OVER THE TOP on critisizng Belichick. But BB is still HC and GM and hence it's a relevant thread. Whether the criticism is valid or invalid or over the top, it's still an opinion, and a relevant thread as long as the posters are not being vile to each other. Who cares if someone is bashing BB or bashing Kraft or bashing any player. That's the point of these forums. For everyone to opine.

I am sorry but I disagree with the basis of this action and feel the mods are in the wrong, and have detracted from the quality of these forums by not moderating but in effect censoring the discussion.