Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

Wozzy said:

Explain it to me so a twelve year old can understand it, if you can't the same way I did with Stephon Gilmore's contract above for an example... then you're just flapping your gums. "Because I say so" isn't how debate works, provide proof. Tell me how I don't understand?

Brady got 50 million dollars guaranteed, we already owed 13.75 million in cap for him... let me guess, we let him play, take out a huge insurance policy on him, drug him, drive him over a cliff and collect on the policy... was that the plan?

Next we'll have to come up with a really nefarious plan to get him the veteran weapons he wanted...

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203Pat said:

The Super Bowls are Brady. He was nearly the MVP in 2016, was the MVP in 2017, and in 2018 he was still able to play at a high enough level despite the talent around him starting to diminish. It is no coincidence that the farther removed from Bill's good drafts the weaker each roster got.

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203Pat said:

Bill structured his deal so we would have $13 mill in dead cap this year. It would have been about half that had Brady signed a new deal for 2020.

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borg said:

Gotta ask...
Before the 2020 covid opt outs.......Bill could afford to spend $1 mill on a QB
If Brady was on the books instead for $25 mill in 2020 and the team's cap had to be under the max in accordance with league timelines (which occurred prior to covid opt outs), how would the roster have not be hindered?

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Wozzy said:

4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 wins = mismanagement

Only to an entitled Patriots fan, the Browns would bend over and take it in the keister for that kind of mismanagement.

I've used clear examples of the Pats kicking the salary cap can down the road with factual proof, so far all you've provided is "because I said so" and emotional outbursts.

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Wozzy said:

No, the Super Bowls were the result of TEAM. Teams win because they're good in all three phases.

Brady doesn't have a ring in 2016 if the defense and Dion Lewis don't carry them to a win over the Texans. Brady doesn't have a win from 2001-2004 without Richard Seymour... another terrible draft pick by Belichick.

Give us a break, don't go all cheerleader on us.

They had Brady is 2002 and went 9-7... if Brady was all they needed they would have 20 rings.

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Wozzy said:

No, it wouldn't have been half. They could have split money owed in separate payments, but it wouldn't have become "less." Also this was the result of pushing money down the road for years, if they had plenty of money like you and others suggest they simply would have paid him upfront.

Plus you'd have to lump all the new money on top of that... see, it's not that BB was wrong or making excuses... you're simply ignorant of the salary cap... and that's okay. Just as long as you realize and learn from it.

Stop listening to Curran and WEEI.

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1960Pats said:

Since there was no replacement for Brady it shows that Bill was overconfident about Brady coming back on a lowball offer. There can't be any other explanation.

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203Pat said:

You really want to get into TEAM records? Like Bill's record without Brady? How about Brady's record without Bill? If we just want to throw TEAM numbers out there then Bill doesn't look so hot.

Yes and the most important position on the TEAM is the quarterback. Especially when the QB is playing at an MVP level.

For the 30th time Bill hasn't always been a bad drafter. The last 5 or so years he has.

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luuked said:

The explanation is pretty easy. They didn't want him back at his price and he didn't want to be back surrounded by this talent at theirs.

I don't get why it is so hard to imagine that BB of all people would say "No thanks, good luck" to Brady if he didn't think the value was there at 25m.

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Wozzy said:

What happened between 2015 and 2013, wasn't Bill a bad drafter then?

In the bookends of the dynasty they won 6 Super Bowls... in the entire decade in between they went to two bowls and lost them both?

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203Pat said:

It would have been $6.5 million in dead money if he was a Patriot this year. Pretty much half of what the dead money is this year without him. Not sure what you don't get.

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203Pat said:

The 2016, 2017, and 2018 Super Bowl teams had a core made up of guys drafted from 2009-2013.

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Boomer B said:

That’s being overly simple. Yes, we won 3 SBs, but that was mainly on the back of the players drafted between 09 - 14 as well as Brady. Great players like Edelman, Hightower, McCourty, White, Chung, Cannon, Gronk were all coming into their primes during the start of the SB run. The problem is in the last 5 years we haven’t drafted well enough to replenish that type of talent. Bill’s drafting since 14 is the reason the Pats are where they are now.

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luuked said:

When you have to start a sentence with "Yes, we won 3 SBs, but.." than anything that follows just comes off as entitled. This is not supposed to be possible and yet through good roster management despite a big churn in talent, stolen picks, no access to high end talent and some misses in the draft they stayed top dog through an entire decade.

But instead of celebrating this, some are just upset that they couldn't beat the odds even more as if this was our birthright.

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Wozzy said:

When Gronk got hurt in 2016 they had Martellus Bennett available... that my friend is called depth. Without a TE I doubt they go far in 2016. I doubt they would go far without Joe Thuney who they drafted that year, or in 2018 when they took Sony who lead the entire postseason in yards, yards per carry and TD's. Those teams went far because they were talented and deep with talent.

From 2015-2013 Tom Brady was one of the highest paid QB's in the NFL, those teams were talented but thin... that's why they failed.

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Wozzy said:

First off it wouldn't have been "dead cap" it simply would have been "cap" owed. Also the rest of the 6.5 million would be owed next year... sounds like a great deal right... really cheap for Brady?

Wrong...

They still have to pay him to play don't they?

The Buc's gave him 50 million guaranteed. Using that as a benchmark assuming we have to auction for his services. The cap hit for Brady on a two year deal would have been 25 million + 6.5 million already owed per season. That's 31.5 million dollars a season for the next two seasons.

When Brady was looking for his deal the Pats had one million in cap space available, maybe two if they cut Hoyer... did you suggest we check under the seat cushions for the remainder?

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Boomer B said:

It’s a Pats forum. Are we only supposed to discuss everything good that happened in the past? I think it’s worthwhile to discuss where we are and how we got here.

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dreighver said:

I think Belichick will definitely make this team competitive over the next 7-10 years, absolutely.



Antonio Brown, Tristan Wirfs, Leonard Fournette, Tom Brady, Joe Haeg, Tyler Johnson, Rob Gronkowski, AQ Shipley. That's a lot of new players playing important roles.

Evans, Godwin, and that defense are supremely talented.

And as we've all seen, very often the difference between 7-9 and 11-5 is a handful of plays here and there (especially turnovers). Going from Brady to Winston absolutely explains the jump in win total, and it doesn't mean this or last year's Buccaneers teams are not extremely talented. In fact, 11 wins for a team with that much talent is about the floor, IMO. That team should have 13-14 wins with marginally better coaching and a full offseason program.

To use the 2019 mark of 7-9 as an argument that this year's (or last year's) Buccaneers team are not talented, is silly.

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Boomer B said:

It’s a Pats forum. Are we only supposed to discuss everything good that happened in the past? I think it’s worthwhile to discuss where we are and how we got here.

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203Pat said:

Yes obviously every single player wasn't drafted that won a ring. Congrats you sure showed me. You're hanging your hat on a guard and a JAG RB? Yes it was the guard who really put us over the top and let us win 3 Super Bowls.

I think one year in Brady's career he has been the highest paid QB. Aside from that he never pushed for every dollar when he very well could have and it made Bill's life easier. Bill then rewarded him by surrounding him with a subpar roster and making him play on ridiculous incentive laden deals.


Where did I say that $6.5 mill would just vanish? It was a stupid deal and it was made by Bill. It was Bill that franchised a guard in a rebuilding year. It was Bill that had $13.5 mill to Brady, $4.75 mill to AB, $3.2 mill to Gostkowski, and $2 mill to Michael Bennett all not on the team in 2020. That is 13% of the cap tied up on players that weren't on the team in 2020.

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