Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

1960Pats said:

Cant Newton, the Pats QB this year, was once a league MVP.

Anyone know which team this year had the most all pros, pro bowlers or whatever you call them? I don't. Are they playing this weekend?

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Cam was never that accurate of a passer, Cam at 31 with two surgeries on his throwing shoulder is toast.

Let's pretend for a moment that time doesn't stand still.

skinnydog said:

This is ridiculous. Diggs at 15 mil per year on the books in a trade was a bargain for a top WR. Vikings already paid the bonus so that is already paid by another team. The Ideas was to resign Thuney to a 5 year contract or so to spread out the cap hit or go sign a vet guard for less. They actually do ok drafting o-line as well. And yes the should have been in on the TE market as well. The Pats had a few moves the could have made to free up space. they made none. Signing Diggs and a TE would not have doomed them to future cap hell. They chose to be smart with cap management well see if that works out now.

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They were broke. Period.

Salary cap broke, otherwise Brady or another QB would have been an option. Diggs was a pipe dream by the weapons obsessed that had no chance of happening and frankly wouldn't have made Cam a good passer. Cam sucks, he is done.

Wozzy said:

The plan was to reset the cap, if they could be competitive with a bunch of kids playing LB, TE and WR so be it. But either way, even if they had to endure a down year this was the plan. Now that they have begun this process that will carry over into next season the goal is to improve... just like it was in 2000.

Proving Negative Nancy's and media hacks wrong isn't trolling, I've been doing it since Al Gore invented the interwebs. You guys hate Matt Chatham because he doesn't accept overt negativity and frankly piss poor football analysis at face value like the majority of media members... whose only expertise is their degrees in journalism.

These media types and Negative Nancy's blame "talent" for everything because they don't understand the game, or in this case the salary cap. Chatham's the most accurate Patriot analyst out there, he's not always right, but he tells it like it is more often than not. Misanthropes prefer a comfortable lie to an inconvenient truth.

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So his plan was to have no QB because he badly mismanaged the cap? That is supposed to make it better?

You haven't proved anything aside from a blind faith and an undying devotion to Bill (which sounds a lot like Matt Chatham). You honestly seem to act like he has done nothing wrong and we are where we are just because of bad luck.

Triumph said:

No he has not.

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Well if Tom Brady is not a success this year then Bill Belichick is an absolute abysmal failure, right? Right? Hello....?

patsinthesnow said:

Evans is an overrated WR. Check out his catch rates. He’s a volume player.

Judging by the other names you’ve listed you are being dishonest. The RBs are JAGs. Gronk is a blocking TE. Antonio Brown is arguably a shell of himself.

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His catch rate with Tom Brady throwing to him was 64.2%

For comparison that is higher than Randy Moss had, in 2007 and 2009, with Brady throwing to him.

Was Randy Moss a volume receiver?

203Pat said:

I love the "Well Brady wouldn't have done that here in 2020. He has an all star roster down there!" seemingly ignoring the fact that this crappy roster was put together by Bill who they refuse to put any blame on.

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LOL!! I know..!! Basically, to defend Coach Belichick, they have to throw GM Belichick completely under the bus.

203Pat said:

So his plan was to have no QB because he badly mismanaged the cap? That is supposed to make it better?

You haven't proved anything aside from a blind faith and an undying devotion to Bill (which sounds a lot like Matt Chatham). You honestly seem to act like he has done nothing wrong and we are where we are just because of bad luck.

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4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 wins = mismanagement

Only to an entitled Patriots fan, the Browns would bend over and take it in the keister for that kind of mismanagement.

I've used clear examples of the Pats kicking the salary cap can down the road with factual proof, so far all you've provided is "because I said so" and emotional outbursts.

Triumph said:

Failure is not winning the Super Bowl.

T shirts and hats are not the standard no matter how hard you try to spin it. Brady is the GOAT for 6 reasons and just reaching the post season isn't on the list.

You can find your silver linings and cherry pick stats like the Bengals, but the job won't be finished unless Brady closes the deal for 7.

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If Brady without Belichick is a failure for "only" making the NFCCG, then what is Belichick without Brady??

Hello? Where'd you go?!?!?

Wozzy said:

4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 wins = mismanagement

Only to an entitled Patriots fan, the Browns would bend over and take it in the keister for that kind of mismanagement.

I used clear examples of the Pats kicking salary cap can down the road with proof, so far all you've provided is "because I said so" and emotional outbursts.

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I don't think you fully understand the crux of the discussion here.....

"(S)he's gone, (s)he's gone
Oh I, oh I
I better learn how to face it
(S)he's gone, (s)he's gone"

XLIX said:

I don't think you fully understand the crux of the discussion here.....

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Explain to me how wild success that hasn't been seen since the last time the Patriots did it a decade and a half ago is mismanagement?

Brady being gone is a direct result of cap management that enabled these Super Bowl wins to happen the last six years.

It's a price I would pay as a fan all over again.

Letting Brady go to a superteam was the right thing to do for the player (who earned it), and for the franchise (who needed it).

Wozzy said:

Explain to me how wild success that hasn't been seen since the last time the Patriots did it a decade and a half ago is mismanagement?

Brady being gone is a direct result of cap management that enabled these Super Bowl wins to happen the last six years.

It's a price I would pay as a fan all over again.

Letting Brady go to a superteam was the right thing to do for the player (who earned it), and for the franchise (who needed it).

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I don't think you fully understand the crux of the discussion here.....

BTW, we could have kept Brady at a lower cap number this year than we ended up paying. So spare me the lame salary cap B.S.

Kdo5 said:

He left primarily because Bill was a pain in the ass.

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Really?
It had nothing to do with surrounding himself with...

#7 draft pick / 3 time Pro Bowler Mike Evans
#19 draft pick OJ Howard
1,333 yds receiving/Pro Bowl Chris Godwin
3 time All Pro Rob Gronkowski
4 time All Pro Antonio Brown
#4 draft pick Leonard Fournette
2 time All Pro LeSean McCoy

And lets net forget about the plethora of other highly functioning weaponry in Tampa that still outclasses NE's
Jones, Brate, Miller, etc

Peyton Manning is jealous
He only got to work with half this kind of bounty at one time
**Remember when NE fans would belittle Manning because of his highly drafted weapons**

Brady has gone Full Lebron
Never has so much Heaven, Earth, and talent need be moved to ensure Brady's greatness

......and secure a 55% completion rate this playoffs

Wozzy said:

4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 wins = mismanagement

Only to an entitled Patriots fan, the Browns would bend over and take it in the keister for that kind of mismanagement.

I've used clear examples of the Pats kicking the salary cap can down the road with factual proof, so far all you've provided is "because I said so" and emotional outbursts.

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The Super Bowls are Brady. He was nearly the MVP in 2016, was the MVP in 2017, and in 2018 he was still able to play at a high enough level despite the talent around him starting to diminish. It is no coincidence that the farther removed from Bill's good drafts the weaker each roster got.

borg said:

Really?
It had nothing to do with surrounding himself with...

#7 draft pick / 3 time Pro Bowler Mike Evans
#19 draft pick OJ Howard
1,333 yds receiving/Pro Bowl Chris Godwin
3 time All Pro Rob Gronkowski
4 time All Pro Antonio Brown
#4 draft pick Leonard Fournette
2 time All Pro LeSean McCoy

And lets net forget about the plethora of other highly functioning weaponry in Tampa that still outclasses NE's
Jones, Brate, Miller, etc

Peyton Manning is jealous
He only got to work with half this kind of bounty at one time
**Remember when NE fans would belittle Manning because of his highly drafted weapons**

Brady has gone Full Lebron
Never has so much Heaven, Earth, and talent need be moved to ensure Brady's greatness

......and secure a 55% completion rate this playoffs

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Well, where the f*ck was he supposed to go when Belichick threw him to the curb? The Jets?

When did so many Steelers fans take over this forum?

skinnydog said:

In terms of yearly cash spent on payroll, the Pats have generally been in the lower half of the league.

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That is absolutely meaningless. The year to year cap is the only thing that matters to answer that question.

As has been discussed ad nauseum already because the payroll numbers are distorted through signing bonuses, incentives and whatnot.

I challenge you to find a year they didnt max the cap up to the usual amount of 5-6m they carry over to the next year. You wont be able to find one because they have been going all in every year.

skinnydog said:

the consistent top 5 offenses have been because of Brady, not because the went all in to give him weapons.

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This narrative just keeps coming up despite 2018 and 2019 showing the opposite. It is not only dumb but also disrespectful to players like Gronk, Edelman, Dola, Hogan, White & co.

Until 2019 he consistently had HoF level talent around him each year since 2007. If you take borderline HoF players like Edelman and Welker even multiple players at the same time. Saying he did it alone is nothing but fanboyism.

Redman443 said:

I remember at this time last year, we were talking about if Brady had regressed passed a point of no return. The answer is a resounding no, the roster in 2019 was full of scrubs on offense with an injured Edelman. Brady now has AB,Evans, Godwin and Gronk back and his completion percentage rose from 60% to 65% and he has thrown 40 touchdown passes this year. Colin Cowherd said it best, Rivers Brees and Ben look old but Brady is still playing great and defying time. If Bill had agreed to try and get some more weapons on offense, maybe TB would have accepted less money to stay in NE.

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4 reasons:
1. Tom was no longer invested in helping younger players/WRs in the offseason. Bill wanted someone more invested in the team and not his brand/life outside of football. Bill knew Tom was burnt out playing here for 20 years.
2. Bill did not want to pay Tom a lot of money because he wanted to accelerate the rebuild and wanted more cap flexibility.
3. Bill wanted to take it "year by year" with a 43 year old QB.
4. philosophically BB does not invest heavily into offensive weapons. In 2020 he didn't have the cash and he knew that was what Tom wanted.

XLIX said:

I don't think you fully understand the crux of the discussion here.....

BTW, we could have kept Brady at a lower cap number this year than we ended up paying. So spare me the lame salary cap B.S.

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Explain it to me so a twelve year old can understand it, if you can't the same way I did with Stephon Gilmore's contract above for an example... then you're just flapping your gums. "Because I say so" isn't how debate works, provide proof. Tell me how I don't understand?

Brady got 50 million dollars guaranteed, we already owed 13.75 million in cap for him... let me guess, we let him play, take out a huge insurance policy on him, drug him, drive him over a cliff and collect on the policy... was that the plan?

Next we'll have to come up with a really nefarious plan to get him the veteran weapons he wanted...

I knew closing the Brady vs BB thread was pointless because it started again today with a different question.

It really all came down to the last two drafts (2018 and 2019) when Brady was there and transactions in 2019.

In 2018, passing on Calvin Ridley was brutal. Isiah Wynn looks like he belongs in the NFL.... when he plays. While Ridley is getting better every year, this is his 3rd straight year Wynn goes on IR.

I had no problem with them taking Michel as they needed a RB who wasn't one dimensional. Unfortunately, he regressed year 2, but shows he can play well when the blocking is there and he's not injured.

Duke Dawson was a complete waste of a pick in the 2nd (as usual).

In 2019, Bill thought it was cute signing all those rejects at WR and none of them stuck. Bringing back Gordon, who quit on the team in 2018, was a mistake. Signing and then releasing Brown was a mistake.

Passing on Metcalf (who's become the strongest/most physical/big play WR) twice was a massive mistake. Taking Harry over Metcalf, Brown, Samuel (not exactly a fan of), insert name here, was a mistake.

Taking JoJuan Williams in the 2nd when their secondary was the strongest unit on the team was another massive mistake. The fact that he couldn't unseat the struggling/regressing JMac is not a good sign going forward. Again, could've had Metcalf, Brown, Samuel or insert name here.

Getting out negotiated by a former employee (Dimitroff) for Sanu. Then putting him out to do something he's not familiar with (1 punt return his entire career) and gets injured.

Brady had no choice but to leave.

borg said:

Gotta ask...
Before the 2020 covid opt outs.......Bill could afford to spend $1 mill on a QB
If Brady was on the books instead for $25 mill in 2020 and the team's cap had to be under the max in accordance with league timelines (which occurred prior to covid opt outs), how would the roster have not be hindered?

Gotta ask 2.0.....
Why do you think Brady would have been content sticking around NE for bigger paychecks knowing firsthand the roster predicament NE faced?
Would the extra $2 mill he would have earned compared to his $23 mill salary in 2019 been reason enough to stay in NE?


Gotta speculate....
Just because the media or any parties involved never presented detailed public explanations, isn't it plausible Bill and Brady had heart to heart discussions about the team's roster situation? What were they talking about in the HC-QB meetings? How great Harry, Meyers, and the TE crew were?
The team made unPatriot-like transactions to temporarily fix the passing game in 2019, signing the cancerous Brown & wildly overpaying for Sanu
But they were just band aids covering up systemic roster maladies.

Some divorces are mutual and blessed by both parties.
Bill and Kraft fought Brady's divorce attempt a few years ago.
But not this time
Each side had clarity

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If Brady had been signed to a multi year deal a few years back like he should have been it would look different then what it does. I’m not looking at it from just the 2020 view. Brady shouldn’t have been on year to year deals.

Playing with the cap is something all teams have done, including the Pats. Doing restructures, trades, drops, ...it’s all part of NFL business. In my opinion I’d rather have kept Brady then someone like McCourty. We had no succession plan at QB and now that we’ve cleared up cap we are still looking at a massive rebuild.

To be clear I think the failure on how Brady left this franchise falls on Bill. The roster is weak and that’s due to bad drafting from 2014 -2019. Instead of relying on cheap rookie deals Bill had to get more expensive veterans who for the most part didn’t pan out. The greatest player in league/team history now plays for another team because Bill didn’t think he had much left and wouldn’t go beyond year to year. Bill’s the best coach of his era but it’s plain to see he hasn’t done a good job replenishing the roster in the last 5 years or so.