Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

skinnydog said:

So your only measure for player success is winning SBs?

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My only measure of the greatest is Super Bowl rings.

skinnydog said:

Then they traded Cooks when it came to be the Pats turn to pay him. And yes, the pats could have traded for Diggs instead of the Bills.

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If the compensation I heard is correct, I wouldn't have been happy giving up what the Bills gave up for Diggs.

Wozzy said:

The 2020 Bucs are an All Star team. What happened before has nothing to do with now.

Besides in 2019 the Bucs led the NFL in passing yards and TD's... they were hardly devoid of talent and any QB who didn't lead the league in turnovers like Jameis Winston did was going to be an improvement.

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They were 7-9

Wozzy said:

The 2020 Bucs are an All Star team. What happened before has nothing to do with now.

Besides in 2019 the Bucs led the NFL in passing yards and TD's... they were hardly devoid of talent and any QB who didn't lead the league in turnovers like Jameis Winston did was going to be an improvement.

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They simply aren’t an all-star team. The vegas win total was 9.5 I believe. They were considered a second tier team entering the year. Tom has elevated the play of the OL as he did here numerous times.

PatsWSB47 said:

They were 7-9

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Who is they?

Do you remember Gronk playing with Winston last year, or AB, or Fournette... what about a completely rebuilt offensive line, a better defense?

One year has nothing to do with another, rosters change, schedules change.

203Pat said:

I still haven't seen team Bill address the fact he was seemingly content to go into 2020 with Stidham and Hoyer.

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That's what made me confident in Stidham. When they picked up Cant Newton and I saw how awful he was everything changed and things didn't look so rosy at QB anymore.

patsinthesnow said:

They simply aren’t an all-star team. The vegas win total was 9.5 I believe. They were considered a second tier team entering the year.

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If I remember they had the third best odds to win the super bowl before the season began, and Vegas isn't infallible.

Also how many HOF, All Pro and Pro Bowl players do you count below?

WR
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Antonio Brown
Scott Miller
Tyler Johnson
Justin Watson

TE
Rob Gronkowski
Cameron Brate
O.J. Howard

RB
Leonard Fournette
Ronald Jones II
LeSean McCoy

This ^ is probably the greatest collection of weapons in pro football history.

But you've seen better... lol

Wozzy said:

If I remember they had the third best odds to win the super bowl before the season began, and Vegas isn't infallible.

Also how many HOF, All Pro and Pro Bowl players do you count below?

WR
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Antonio Brown
Scott Miller
Tyler Johnson
Justin Watson

TE
Rob Gronkowski
Cameron Brate
O.J. Howard

RB
Leonard Fournette
Ronald Jones II
LeSean McCoy

This ^ is probably the greatest collection of weapons in pro football history.

But you've seen better... lol

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Evans is an overrated WR. Check out his catch rates. He’s a volume player.

Judging by the other names you’ve listed you are being dishonest. The RBs are JAGs. Gronk is a blocking TE. Antonio Brown is arguably a shell of himself.

Boomer B said:

Having Brady on the team wouldn’t hinder any reset or rebuild.

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Gotta ask...
Before the 2020 covid opt outs.......Bill could afford to spend $1 mill on a QB
If Brady was on the books instead for $25 mill in 2020 and the team's cap had to be under the max in accordance with league timelines (which occurred prior to covid opt outs), how would the roster have not be hindered?

Gotta ask 2.0.....
Why do you think Brady would have been content sticking around NE for bigger paychecks knowing firsthand the roster predicament NE faced?
Would the extra $2 mill he would have earned compared to his $23 mill salary in 2019 been reason enough to stay in NE?


Gotta speculate....
Just because the media or any parties involved never presented detailed public explanations, isn't it plausible Bill and Brady had heart to heart discussions about the team's roster situation? What were they talking about in the HC-QB meetings? How great Harry, Meyers, and the TE crew were?
The team made unPatriot-like transactions to temporarily fix the passing game in 2019, signing the cancerous Brown & wildly overpaying for Sanu
But they were just band aids covering up systemic roster maladies.

Some divorces are mutual and blessed by both parties.
Bill and Kraft fought Brady's divorce attempt a few years ago.
But not this time
Each side had clarity

patsinthesnow said:

Evans is an overrated WR. Check out his catch rates. He’s a volume player.

Judging by the other names you’ve listed you are being dishonest. That’s your problem. The RBs are JAGs. Gronk is a blocking TE.

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• 3× Pro Bowl (2016, 2018, 2019)
• Second-team All-Pro (2016)
• PFWA All-Rookie Team (2014)
• Consensus All-American (2013)
• First-team All-SEC (2013)

Overrated...

Wozzy said:

Who is they?

Do you remember Gronk playing with Winston last year, or AB, or Fournette... what about a completely rebuilt offensive line, a better defense?

One year has nothing to do with another, rosters change, schedules change.

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Rebuilt o-line? The needed a R tackle and hit on that in the draft. It was not a rebuilt o-line. And Howard is a better TE than Gronk. Aside from Brady, most of the talent was already in place on offense.

skinnydog said:

Rebuilt o-line? The needed a R tackle and hit on that in the draft. It was not a rebuilt o-line. And Howard is a better TE than Gronk. Aside from Brady, most of the talent was already in place on offense.

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Wirfs was a #1 pick, AQ Shipley and Joe Haeg were also great additions. Great teams have depth and those guys made starts this year. Where's Howard right now?

Triumph said:

My only measure of the greatest is Super Bowl rings.

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There's a lot of ground in between failure and greatness. I've heard many people, even some of Brady's critics, congratulate him for his 14th trip to a conference championship in 19 years.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Okay, I understand your argument. But 2-3 years (it could be more) if having an all-time great Brady gives you a better chance to win a Super Bowl than 8-10 years of any coach or GM or coach/GM who has ever existed.

Brady has already made the conference championship game. The chances aren’t great that the Patriots will make it to even one conference championship game before Belichick retires.

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I think Belichick will definitely make this team competitive over the next 7-10 years, absolutely.

PatsWSB47 said:

They were 7-9

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Antonio Brown, Tristan Wirfs, Leonard Fournette, Tom Brady, Joe Haeg, Tyler Johnson, Rob Gronkowski, AQ Shipley. That's a lot of new players playing important roles.

Evans, Godwin, and that defense are supremely talented.

And as we've all seen, very often the difference between 7-9 and 11-5 is a handful of plays here and there (especially turnovers). Going from Brady to Winston absolutely explains the jump in win total, and it doesn't mean this or last year's Buccaneers teams are not extremely talented. In fact, 11 wins for a team with that much talent is about the floor, IMO. That team should have 13-14 wins with marginally better coaching and a full offseason program.

To use the 2019 mark of 7-9 as an argument that this year's (or last year's) Buccaneers team are not talented, is silly.

Wozzy said:

Stidham, Hoyer and Cam... did you miss that?

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Lol that was the plan? That was really the plan? Stidham, a guy who Bill wouldn't let start in front of one of the worst QBs I have ever seen? Hoyer? We saw how that went in KC. He was horrific. Cam fell into his lap and only signed here because he couldn't get a job anywhere else and was willing to play for peanuts.

You're either trolling or you're related to Bill (or you really are Matt Chatham).

Wozzy said:

According to you Negative Nancy's we sucked for the last six years and had no talent, if we won 3 rings with no talent I'm sure we'll be fine.

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You didn't answer my question.

Wozzy said:

I could use all the collateral on my house to finance a Ferrari, then when it needs a tuneup or tires I'll have no money to do either. When it breaks down it will sit in my garage and I won't be able to drive to work, until the day the bank comes to take my house, my car and my dog... smart.

Brady and Diggs with the ballboy, water boy and the front office guys playing O-Line blocking with a gable of jags on defense is a terrible team. Football teams are good because 53 men on the roster are good, not because you have a franchise caliber QB. Drew Brees led the NFL in passing in 2016, the Saints had the worst defense in the league... they went 7-9.

The idea that a franchise caliber QB and weapons alone will win you a ring is the stuff of fanboys who don't understand the game at all.

Just because you can borrow money doesn't make it smart.

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Wozzy said:

I could use all the collateral on my house to finance a Ferrari, then when it needs a tuneup or tires I'll have no money to do either. When it breaks down it will sit in my garage and I won't be able to drive to work, until the day the bank comes to take my house, my car and my dog... smart.

Brady and Diggs with the ballboy, water boy and the front office guys playing O-Line blocking with a gable of jags on defense is a terrible team. Football teams are good because 53 men on the roster are good, not because you have a franchise caliber QB. Drew Brees led the NFL in passing in 2016, the Saints had the worst defense in the league... they went 7-9.

The idea that a franchise caliber QB and weapons alone will win you a ring is the stuff of fanboys who don't understand the game at all.

Just because you can borrow money doesn't make it smart.

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This is ridiculous. Diggs at 15 mil per year on the books in a trade was a bargain for a top WR. Vikings already paid the bonus so that is already paid by another team. The Ideas was to resign Thuney to a 5 year contract or so to spread out the cap hit or go sign a vet guard for less. They actually do ok drafting o-line as well. And yes the should have been in on the TE market as well. The Pats had a few moves the could have made to free up space. they made none. Signing Diggs and a TE would not have doomed them to future cap hell. They chose to be smart with cap management well see if that works out now.

dreighver said:

I think Belichick will definitely make this team competitive over the next 7-10 years, absolutely.



Antonio Brown, Tristan Wirfs, Leonard Fournette, Tom Brady, Joe Haeg, Tyler Johnson, Rob Gronkowski, AQ Shipley. That's a lot of new players playing important roles.

Evans, Godwin, and that defense are supremely talented.

And as we've all seen, very often the difference between 7-9 and 11-5 is a handful of plays here and there (especially turnovers). Going from Brady to Winston absolutely explains the jump in win total, and it doesn't mean this or last year's Buccaneers teams are not extremely talented. In fact, 11 wins for a team with that much talent is about the floor, IMO. That team should have 13-14 wins with marginally better coaching and a full offseason program.

To use the 2019 mark of 7-9 as an argument that this year's (or last year's) Buccaneers team is not talented is silly.

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I'm nitpicking your post, I agree with the bucs coaching lost them a couple wins, but as far as BB goes:

I'd be surprised if he's still here more than 4 more years. Dudes almost 70 and he's been in the league for what, 40+ years?

Wozzy said:

If I remember they had the third best odds to win the super bowl before the season began, and Vegas isn't infallible.

Also how many HOF, All Pro and Pro Bowl players do you count below?

WR
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Antonio Brown
Scott Miller
Tyler Johnson
Justin Watson

TE
Rob Gronkowski
Cameron Brate
O.J. Howard

RB
Leonard Fournette
Ronald Jones II
LeSean McCoy

This ^ is probably the greatest collection of weapons in pro football history.

But you've seen better... lol

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Cant Newton, the Pats QB this year, was once a league MVP.

Anyone know which team this year had the most all pros, pro bowlers or whatever you call them? I don't. Are they playing this weekend?

The Bucs situation shows you two things.
1. How important the QB position is.
2. How if you draft well you can field an "all star team".

2020 Tristan Wirfs is a stud. Antonie Winfield Jr looks like a playmaker on defense and a steal in the second round. Keshaun Vaughn and Tyler Johnson look like solid depth pieces.

2019 Devin White looks pretty good and was making plays all over the field Sunday. Murphy-Bunting looks like a good corner. Scotty Miller and and Jameel Dean look like solid depth pieces.

2018 Vita Tea looked like a monster before he got hurt. Rojo, Carlton Davis, Alex Cappa, and Jordan Whitehead all look like good/very good starters.

I know each of those first round picks was drafted high but we may be in the same draft ballpark the next couple years so we need to come away with solid drafts now more than ever.

203Pat said:

Lol that was the plan? That was really the plan? Stidham, a guy who Bill wouldn't let start in front of one of the worst QBs I have ever seen? Hoyer? We saw how that went in KC. He was horrific. Cam fell into his lap and only signed here because he couldn't get a job anywhere else and was willing to play for peanuts.

You're either trolling or you're related to Bill (or you really are Matt Chatham).

You didn't answer my question.

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The plan was to reset the cap, if they could be competitive with a bunch of kids playing LB, TE and WR so be it. But either way, even if they had to endure a down year this was the plan. Now that they have begun this process that will carry over into next season the goal is to improve... just like it was in 2000.

Proving Negative Nancy's and media hacks wrong isn't trolling, I've been doing it since Al Gore invented the interwebs. You guys hate Matt Chatham because he doesn't accept overt negativity and frankly piss poor football analysis at face value like the majority of media members... whose only expertise is their degrees in journalism. National media members follow whatever the local guys are telling them.

These media types and Negative Nancy's blame "talent" for everything because they don't understand the game, or in this case the salary cap. Chatham's the most accurate Patriot analyst out there, he's not always right, but he tells it like it is more often than not. Misanthropes prefer a comfortable lie to an inconvenient truth.