OT: Drew Brees (edit: announced his retirement today)

I have been a mini Brees/Saints fan due to them beating Manning and being similarly screwed by the league on trumped/made up charges. Rooted hard for Brady and Tampa last night though.

I have a hard time putting Brees in the top 10 all time as he was at most the 4th best QB of this era (Brady, Manning, Rogers) and the fact that 90% of his legacy revolves around statistics. His style of play was exceedingly conservative which led to 70% completion percentages before so many others were doing that and it resulted in tons of yards but his limitations seemed to consistently crop up in the postseason. With players like Mahomes already exceeding him for peak play I would probably put him closer to the 15 range than top 10. With passing easier now than ever before it will be interesting to see how QBs are looked at historically and how many end up on the HOF from this era. How many is too many? I used to think Rivers and Eli would make it but I don't anymore.

HOF locks: Brady, Manning, Rogers, Brees, Big Ben
HOF maybe: Rivers, Eli, Ryan (he should obliterate all of Eli's numbers)
HOF path: Wilson, Mahomes, Watson

Sad to see Brees go out like that. I don't think he's fallen off the Kellerman cliff, I just think that rib/lung injury did something to his throwing ability - obviously. I'll say this, I'd rather have him next year than Cam.

Reading the Saints board today is pure gold. They had been talking about playing GB all week. Did not see that beat down coming at all.

Nehalem said:

Saints basically had one good drive with Brees in the game.

Got 6 points off great returns to start the game
Got 7 points off Winston trick play 50 yard TD.

Could easily have been a blow out.

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Yes, the final score could have easily been much worse for the Saints.

But by the same token the New Orleans defense had three passes they should have intercepted, but did not. Add in Jared Cook's two brain lock turnovers (not protecting the ball, resulting in a fumble; whiffing on what should have been a reception, resulting in a pick) and suddenly it is the Saints who win convincingly.

That's the game of football: so often 3-5 plays that could go either way determine the outcome.


All that being said, I don't believe New Orleans had a chance to beat Green Bay. There will always be a problem when dome teams have to play outdoors up north in January. Tampa Bay is far more capable of beating the Packers.

I feel like way too much is made out of how athletes “go out.” Sportswriters always do that, they want guys to retire and “go out on top.”

Nonsense! Good for Brees for getting it done as long as he could. It looks like he’s done now, and that’s fine. But there’s no shame in how he went out.

Doctor DDS said:

I have been a mini Brees/Saints fan due to them beating Manning and being similarly screwed by the league on trumped/made up charges. Rooted hard for Brady and Tampa last night though.

I have a hard time putting Brees in the top 10 all time as he was at most the 4th best QB of this era (Brady, Manning, Rogers) and the fact that 90% of his legacy revolves around statistics. His style of play was exceedingly conservative which led to 70% completion percentages before so many others were doing that and it resulted in tons of yards but his limitations seemed to consistently crop up in the postseason. With players like Mahomes already exceeding him for peak play I would probably put him closer to the 15 range than top 10. With passing easier now than ever before it will be interesting to see how QBs are looked at historically and how many end up on the HOF from this era. How many is too many? I used to think Rivers and Eli would make it but I don't anymore.

HOF locks: Brady, Manning, Rogers, Brees, Big Ben
HOF maybe: Rivers, Eli, Ryan (he should obliterate all of Eli's numbers)
HOF path: Wilson, Mahomes, Watson

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I agree about Brees, and the main thing is, to me, that his feats are likely to get passed very soon, which leaves him as just another big stats guy. History has a lot of those. He doesn’t have the accolades to be a top 10 QB, or at least not top 10 after a few years have passed and recency bias turns elsewhere.

I don’t know who will get into the Hall. They’ve made the path way too easy. In my opinion it should be deserved for the players that were outliers at their position. I’ll exclude Manning from this list because he’s basically already in.

Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are 100% deserving for the Hall.

Wilson is a Hall of Famer already in my opinion. He doesn’t have the all-pro/MVP awards but has been one of the top few QBs in the league for almost a decade.

Big Ben would get in but not with a raving “100%!” endorsement. He’s been a consistently good QB for 15 years but hasn’t once even been a serious candidate for MVP or all-pro. At his peak, he might be a top 5 guy, and I don’t think the Hall should be a guarantee for long-term very goodness.

Rivers should not be a Hall of Famer. At no time has he ever been considered a top QB other than some hot stretches; his flaws are terrible. And no postseason success like Roethlisberger.

Ryan is borderline...probably a yes in the end. He’s a really good QB who has been elite at times. A few more strong seasons and maybe a trip back to contention would bulk up his resume.

Eli Manning should not in the Hall. He never won a playoff game outside of 2007 and 2011 (0-4) and was a career .500 QB with average numbers. A Hall of Fame nod is just double dipping on two very fortunate runs where the Giants offense scored about 23ppg, which is about average.

What if Brees wants to keep playing and the saints release him (no way they can afford him). Patriots draft a qb, do you bring in Brees as the transition qb?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I agree about Brees, and the main thing is, to me, that his feats are likely to get passed very soon, which leaves him as just another big stats guy. History has a lot of those. He doesn’t have the accolades to be a top 10 QB, or at least not top 10 after a few years have passed and recency bias turns elsewhere.

I don’t know who will get into the Hall. They’ve made the path way too easy. In my opinion it should be deserved for the players that were outliers at their position. I’ll exclude Manning from this list because he’s basically already in.

Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are 100% deserving for the Hall.

Wilson is a Hall of Famer already in my opinion. He doesn’t have the all-pro/MVP awards but has been one of the top few QBs in the league for almost a decade.

Big Ben would get in but not with a raving “100%!” endorsement. He’s been a consistently good QB for 15 years but hasn’t once even been a serious candidate for MVP or all-pro. At his peak, he might be a top 5 guy, and I don’t think the Hall should be a guarantee for long-term very goodness.

Rivers should not be a Hall of Famer. At no time has he ever been considered a top QB other than some hot stretches; his flaws are terrible. And no postseason success like Roethlisberger.

Ryan is borderline...probably a yes in the end. He’s a really good QB who has been elite at times. A few more strong seasons and maybe a trip back to contention would bulk up his resume.

Eli Manning should not in the Hall. He never won a playoff game outside of 2007 and 2011 (0-4) and was a career .500 QB with average numbers. A Hall of Fame nod is just double dipping on two very fortunate runs where the Giants offense scored about 23ppg, which is about average.

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Eli will get in because of the Super Bowls alone.

Ryan needs more 2016 Ryan seasons and a ring otherwise no.

Ben- yes

Wilson- I think so assuming he doesn’t suddenly retire.

Rivers- no.

Brady, Brees and Rodgers- locks.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Rivers should not be a Hall of Famer. At no time has he ever been considered a top QB other than some hot stretches; his flaws are terrible. And no postseason success like Roethlisberger.

Ryan is borderline...probably a yes in the end. He’s a really good QB who has been elite at times. A few more strong seasons and maybe a trip back to contention would bulk up his resume.

Eli Manning should not in the Hall. He never won a playoff game outside of 2007 and 2011 (0-4) and was a career .500 QB with average numbers. A Hall of Fame nod is just double dipping on two very fortunate runs where the Giants offense scored about 23ppg, which is about average.

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I don't think any of those three should get in. Manning would get in based upon having two terrific defenses and two throws one which was pure luck and the other I'll give him his due. That ball to Manningham was nails.

Rivers and Ryan are the Carl Yastrzemski's of football. Tons of volume stats but really one a season or maybe two where they were elite. And on those years when they were elite they were surrounded by pro bowl level talent at every position. Rivers just passed Marino and Ryan could actually pass Peyton Manning before he's done in yards so sadly they'll dilute the hall and get in while many much more deserving defensive players don't get in.

everlong said:

Rivers and Ryan are the Carl Yastrzemski's of football. Tons of volume stats but really one a season or maybe two where they were elite. And on those years when they were elite they were surrounded by pro bowl level talent at every position. Rivers just passed Marino and Ryan could actually pass Peyton Manning before he's done in yards so sadly they'll dilute the hall and get in while many much more deserving defensive players don't get in.

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Understand the point you are making but have to disagree about the Yaz comparison. He played in some of the worst hitting decades of all time and won a batting title at .301. (in 1976 only 10 teams even hit 100 homers) He won the triple crown and MVP in 1967 but was also top 10 another 4 times and top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. Was also a spectacular left fielder. Not an iconic great like a Ted Williams but certainly not a border line HOFer either.

UptownPatsFan said:

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This meme got me thinking. If I'm not missing anyone I think only 4 players have more playoff wins vs nfc opponents than Brady. Joe, Favre, Rodgers, and Staughback. A few others tied.

ScottishPatriots said:

If Brees does come back he'll likely look good in September and October but his arm gets worse as the year goes on and has done for 2-3 years.

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I wonder though how much of the broken ribs affected him. That takes time to heal.

Brees is cooked

hell of a career, but id be lying if i said i wasnt happy that Brady will pass him in all time passing yards and completions next year

Doctor DDS said:

Understand the point you are making but have to disagree about the Yaz comparison. He played in some of the worst hitting decades of all time and won a batting title at .301. (in 1976 only 10 teams even hit 100 homers) He won the triple crown and MVP in 1967 but was also top 10 another 4 times and top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. Was also a spectacular left fielder. Not an iconic great like a Ted Williams but certainly not a border line HOFer either.

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162 Game Average

Average 285
HR 22
Runs 88
RBI 90
OBP 379
SLG 462
7 Gold Gloves

Dwight Evans for comparison

Average 272
HR 24
Runs 86
RBI 91
OBP 370
SLG 470
8 Gold Gloves

Evans never had the top end Yaz did but also didn't have the bottom end hanging out to get 3000 hits and 400 HR.

everlong said:

162 Game Average

Average 285
HR 22
Runs 88
RBI 90
OBP 379
SLG 462
7 Gold Gloves

Dwight Evans for comparison

Average 272
HR 24
Runs 86
RBI 91
OBP 370
SLG 470
8 Gold Gloves

Evans never had the top end Yaz did but also didn't have the bottom end hanging out to get 3000 hits and 400 HR.

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I loved Dewey and his peak was HOF worthy but he probably only had 6 or 7 of those seasons while Yaz had a dozen. Dewey also played a larger portion of his career in the 80's which were much more favorable to hitting than the 60's. Yaz led the league in BA 3 times in the 60's at .326, .321 and ,301. Also led the league in Hr's 3 times and OBP 5 times. He had a 10 year stretch of one of the top 15 or so players in MLB. It was brutal to hit in the 60's and most of the 70's compared to other eras so his numbers look worse in comparison to more recent players. No doubt that Yaz hanging around to his mid 40's hurt his yearly averages but he already had 3,000 hits and 400 homeruns by that point.

JarOfMayo51 said:

Brees is cooked

hell of a career, but id be lying if i said i wasnt happy that Brady will pass him in all time passing yards and completions next year

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Cherry on top was beating him at his place to end his career.

Ring 6 said:

What if Brees wants to keep playing and the saints release him (no way they can afford him). Patriots draft a qb, do you bring in Brees as the transition qb?

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I think it's all about value. If he's near the same price point as Ryan Fitzpatrick then sure, but if he wants to recoup the $25 million he would have gotten from the Saints next season then heck no.

Sciz said:

I think it's all about value. If he's near the same price point as Ryan Fitzpatrick then sure, but if he wants to recoup the $25 million he would have gotten from the Saints next season then heck no.

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I disagree. I think it’s about if he is the best option which is doubtful. We can definitely afford 25 mil for a QB, so if that’s what it takes to get the best guy we can, then we do it.

He played the entire year with a torn rotator cuff...

TommyBrady12 said:

He played the entire year with a torn rotator cuff...

Drew Brees' wife says he played the entire year with shoulder, foot injuries

Drew Brees' wife says he was playing hurt all season, with multiple injuries.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

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This would explain the weak throws. That and 11 broken ribs.