OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

Kontradiction · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
I am not punishing Brady for that. I said from day one, I think Brady is a top 5-7 QB in the league right now. Most likely 5. @KontradictioN for some reason has a problem with that and won't be happy until I "admit" Brady shows no sign of age and is the same QB he was five or ten years ago.

All I ever said is Brady is not the QB he was 5-10 years ago, but considering he was the greatest of all time, that puts him on the top of the second tier after the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watsons of the NFL. And I don't believe he can carry a bad offense like he did in 2006 anymore. I don't get what I said is controversial or even a swipe at Brady other than someone on this board trying to twist my words.

No you didn’t. You said he was 10-15. Then you only named 5 in front of him “before having to think about it.” I can pull the post up if you’d like. What signs of age are you seeing? Specifically which routes is he struggling to connect on that he used to have a mastery of?

amfootball · Jan 18, 2021

Nehalem said:
"Like, New England didn’t allow him to coach. I allow him to coach. I just sit back sometimes and watch.”

Isn't it really a dig at himself?

The mark of a good coach is allowing his players to excel at what they are good at.

Nehalem · Jan 18, 2021

amfootball said:
Because the Pats are so married to "their way" that they missed given the greatest QB of all time the op to coach which has provided huge dividends for Tampa in season one. This idea that the way Bill did/does things is always right or the best way has been getting debunked every single week of this season.

Proven by the fact that Tampa Bay won fewer games than the Patriots averaged over Brady's last 10 years in New England?

Or I take it you forgot the 4/5 SB appearances including 3 wins between 2014-2018?

Though maybe Tom wouldn't have benched Malcolm Butler

NashuaPats · Jan 18, 2021

PatsWSB47 said:
I'm wondering how Tampa plays in 20 degree weather

That’s going to be a huge advantage for GB.

TB12TheGoat · Jan 18, 2021

Godwin needs to get his crap together. Brady said this dude had the best hands and he has looked bad these first 2 playoff games

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2021

KontradictioN said:
Yeah. One of your major criticisms of Brady is that he can no longer carry a bad team. So Watson being in your top 5 with a 4-12 team this year and one career playoff win makes a ton of sense. This is definitely an airtight argument. This also assumes that Brady, at any point in his career, carried a bad team to a title. Never once happened. But whatever makes you feel better that he isn’t playing here, I guess.

Psst! Brady was once the greatest QB to ever step foot on the football field. I am saying Watson is the third best QB in the league this year. I never said Watson could carry a bad team into the playoffs. In fact, read my last post, I say it takes a once in a generation type of QB to do that. Mahomes could do it. Rodgers could probably do it. I don't think any other QB could.

Kontradiction · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
Psst! Brady was once the greatest QB to ever step foot on the football field. I am saying Watson is the third best QB in the league this year. I never said Watson could carry a bad team into the playoffs. In fact, read my last post, I say it takes a once in a generation type of QB to do that. Mahomes could do it. Rodgers could probably do it. I don't think any other QB could.

Rodgers has never carried a bad team to a championship. Neither has Mahomes. Neither has Brady. This is a crap argument.

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2021

KontradictioN said:
No you didn’t. You said he was 10-15. Then you only named 5 in front of him “before having to think about it.” I can pull the post up if you’d like. What signs of age are you seeing? Specifically which routes is he struggling to connect on that he used to have a mastery of?

I never said that. Not once. I said 5-7. You mocked that.

And as for Brady, it isn't that he cannot do anything but his consistency is more of an issue. He is missing his target more often. He is at times not making the right reads or the reads fast enough. It's the little that separates the elite for the very good.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
I never said that. Not once. I said 5-7. You mocked that.

And as for Brady, it isn't that he cannot do anything but his consistency is more of an issue. He is missing his target more often. He is at times not making the right reads or the reads fast enough. It's the little that separates the elite for the very good.

I’m not going to claim your assertion is true or false. But I am going to claim, with confidence, that you have absolutely nothing to back it up and no measurable standard.

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2021

KontradictioN said:
Rodgers has never carried a bad team to a championship. Neither has Mahomes. Neither has Brady. This is a crap argument.

Mahomes hasn't had a chance. He is only in his fourth year in the league.

And I said the playoffs.

And Brady has at least to an AFC Championship Game. So that the bar for Brady to determine if he slipped.

Uptown · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2021

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
I’m not going to claim your assertion is true or false. But I am going to claim, with confidence, that you have absolutely nothing to back it up and no measurable standard.

When players decline, there isn't always a measurable standard unless have a significant decline. But the eyeball test this season you could see Brady making throws he wouldn't have made five years ago and missing passes he wouldn't have missed. But there is no way to quantify that.

PATS16N0 · Jan 18, 2021

Imagine what a wretched goblin someone would have to be to be a Patriots fan and hate Tom Brady lol

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2021

PATS16N0 said:
Imagine what a wretched goblin someone would have to be to be a Patriots fan and hate Tom Brady lol

Hope you aren't talking about me. Although I think Brady has declined and arguing that here, I have been rooting for the guy all season. Even spent $2500 this summer to buy a framed signed Brady Jersey.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
When players decline, there isn't always a measurable standard unless have a significant decline. But the eyeball test this season you could see Brady making throws he wouldn't have made five years ago and missing passes he wouldn't have missed. But there is no way to quantify that.

Five years ago, eyeball tests said the exact same thing.

sb1 · Jan 18, 2021

Deleted wrong topic

PATS16N0 · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
Hope you aren't talking about me. Although I think Brady has declined and arguing that here, I have been rooting for the guy all season. Even spent $2500 this summer to buy a framed signed Brady Jersey.

Nope. Just talking about in general.

The putrid Red Sox gene in the Patriots fandom that’s been a cancer on this forum since the days of “moving on for Matt Cassel” has been loud AF this year.

TB12TheGoat · Jan 18, 2021

UptownPatsFan said:

what a playoff run that was. i can never decide if the ravens game or the 2018 chiefs game is my favorite non super bowl playoff game. then just dismantling the whiny colts

Kdo5 · Jan 18, 2021

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
The AB thing angers me more than anything to be honest. Brady said he would keep AB under control and it was his responsibility. Kraft cut him for something that was way more about PR pressure than actual misconduct. Maybe the league would have suspended him (and then reinstated him later that year.). But bottom line is that Kraft sided again with Roger Goodell and the 31 to put his team at a disadvantage and basically told Brady that “the Patriot way” is supreme in the most hypocritical and cowardly way possible. If Kraft is eating a bowl of **** right now, that gives me some satisfaction. Never thought he’d betray Brady again after Deflategate.

Completely agree.

Rob0729 said:
You thought Brady played like a top 5 QB yesterday? I love how you want to trash talk in a game where the Bucs' defense had to bail out the offense that struggled the entire game. If the Bucs didn't turnover the Saints so many times yesterday, Brady would be out of the playoffs.

I stand by my point that Brady is on the decline and is now at the top of the second tier of QBs. Nothing that happened yesterday disproved that.
And I don't get how you rate QB based on how far they go in the playoffs. By your standard, Trent Dilfer was the best QB in 2000 when even at his best during his career, he was a ok game manager. Deshaun Watson was better than Brady this year and he didn't even sniff the playoffs. Why? Because Watson was one of the only good things on the Texans this year. And a once in a lifetime QB like Brady at his prime could carry a team into the playoffs, a top tier QB cannot. Dan Marino was one of the best QBs of all time and his playoff record is abysmal (8-10).

I don't get why you are obsessed with not accepting that Brady has slipped a bit. I never said he has fallen off the map. He has awesome weapons this year. He has two Pro Bowl/All Pro WRs (although Brown isn't the guy he was in Pittsburgh anymore and took some time to get back into playing shape) and a WR who had 1,300 yards in 2019. Brady hasn't had so much talent around him since possibly 2007.

How has Brady’s game slipped? I see absolutely no evidence of that anywhere in his game.

Doctor DDS · Jan 18, 2021

Rob0729 said:
Psst! Brady was once the greatest QB to ever step foot on the football field. I am saying Watson is the third best QB in the league this year. I never said Watson could carry a bad team into the playoffs. In fact, read my last post, I say it takes a once in a generation type of QB to do that. Mahomes could do it. Rodgers could probably do it. I don't think any other QB could.

No way I would take Watson over Brady this year. The Bucs outscored the Texans by over 100 points and Watson had Fuller, Cooks and Cobb who while not what Brady has to work with are not horrible. Plus the Texans went 4-12 and I cannot accept a QB can be top 3 with a record like that.

Do you honestly believe Tampa would rather have Watson in the playoffs than Brady right now? Brady has never needed elite athletes at WR but he has always needed smart WR. His early struggles this year were mostly based on not being on the same page with his WRs vs any decline.

OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

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