OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

KontradictioN said:

You had Big Ben in your top 5 and then wanted to sub him out for Watson.

Click to expand...

Because when I originally looked at the list I didn't pay that much of attention to the season. Since you have made a big deal about it, I went back and did more research. Watson was the better QB than Brady. I was wrong about Roethlisberger. Watson is arguably the third best QB in the NFL right now after Mahomes and Rodgers. He had next to nothing to work with. His best WR was Brandin Cooks. Cooks is a solid #2 WR, but a mediocre

Do you think Brady played better than Watson this year? Forget the records. Because the Texans had no head coach and no talent. Just QB play. Nothing else. If you say yes, I think you are kidding yourself. It is hard to win a lot of games when your defense is giving up 30-40 points a game.

And again, I never Brady was bad. In fact, I said he was a top 5 QB. I just says he is no longer elite. What is the problem with that. He is good enough to bring a team with a lot of talent like the Bucs to the Super Bowl. He isn't good enough to carry a team devoid of talent like the 2006 Patriots anymore.

ArchAngel007 said:

He has slipped sure but when you mention weapons say the same thing about Mahomes with two all pros, Rodgers with Adams and Jones, and Allen with Diggs/Beasley/Brown they all have great weapons too yet Brady only gets punished for that

Click to expand...

I am not punishing Brady for that. I said from day one, I think Brady is a top 5-7 QB in the league right now. Most likely 5. @KontradictioN for some reason has a problem with that and won't be happy until I "admit" Brady shows no sign of age and is the same QB he was five or ten years ago.

All I ever said is Brady is not the QB he was 5-10 years ago, but considering he was the greatest of all time, that puts him on the top of the second tier after the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watsons of the NFL. And I don't believe he can carry a bad offense like he did in 2006 anymore. I don't get what I said is controversial or even a swipe at Brady other than someone on this board trying to twist my words.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Watching Tampa's allegedly elite wideouts.
Evans, what one catch 3 yards? And Godwin who Brady totally MISTAKENLY said had the best hands of any receiver he'd ever seen dropping balls in both playoff games including TDs. Godwin has been anti-clutch.
Patriots fans need to reflect on how blessed we were. In the first phase of the dynasty Troy Brown Mr. Clutch. In the 2nd phase Dola, pure clutch plus Edelperson who always came up big in big games. Gronk for the stake in the heart of the Lambs for the close SB win 2018 season. Our players did not vanish and/or drop ket passes come playoff pressure.
I hope the Tampa receiving corpse (sic) re-animates itself vs GB next Sunday otherwise it's unctuous Saint Aaron in the SB. Go Antonio!

Click to expand...

Guess you are mis-remembering Welker's drop vs the Giants.

Rob0729 said:

I am not punishing Brady for that. I said from day one, I think Brady is a top 5-7 QB in the league right now. Most likely 5. @KontradictioN for some reason has a problem with that and won't be happy until I "admit" Brady shows no sign of age and is the same QB he was five or ten years ago.

All I ever said is Brady is not the QB he was 5-10 years ago, but considering he was the greatest of all time, that puts him on the top of the second tier after the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watsons of the NFL. And I don't believe he can carry a bad offense like he did in 2006 anymore. I don't get what I said is controversial or even a swipe at Brady other than someone on this board trying to twist my words.

Click to expand...

What QB has ever carried the receiver corps Brady had for all 6 of his championships? I can't think of any SB winner or for that matter multiple SB winners that did not have weapons. Really you are only comparing Brady to Brady because he is the only one that has done it repeatedly.

ArchAngel007 said:

Where's is all the anti-Brady crew at?

Click to expand...

They've been working all night trying to figure out how BB is responsible for TB12's two wins in these playoffs.

God I hate him so much.

amfootball said:

What QB has ever carried the receiver corps Brady had for all 6 of his championships? I can't think of any SB winner or for that matter multiple SB winners that did not have weapons. Really you are only comparing Brady to Brady because he is the only one that has done it repeatedly.

Click to expand...

But my point is not even the Brady of today could do what Brady did over the course of his career.

Rob0729 said:

I am not punishing Brady for that. I said from day one, I think Brady is a top 5-7 QB in the league right now. Most likely 5. @KontradictioN for some reason has a problem with that and won't be happy until I "admit" Brady shows no sign of age and is the same QB he was five or ten years ago.

All I ever said is Brady is not the QB he was 5-10 years ago, but considering he was the greatest of all time, that puts him on the top of the second tier after the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watsons of the NFL. I don't get what I said is controversial or even a swipe at Brady other than someone on this board trying to twist my words.

Click to expand...

I don't know if Brady can lift an inferior team up to greatness anymore. He couldn't last season.

But in this situation he's at least a top 5 QB in the league for sure. Would it really surprise anyone if he made an MVP run next season?

Rob0729 said:

Because when I originally looked at the list I didn't pay that much of attention to the season. Since you have made a big deal about it, I went back and did more research. Watson was the better QB than Brady. I was wrong about Roethlisberger. Watson is arguably the third best QB in the NFL right now after Mahomes and Rodgers. He had next to nothing to work with. His best WR was Brandin Cooks. Cooks is a solid #2 WR, but a mediocre

Do you think Brady played better than Watson this year? Forget the records. Because the Texans had no head coach and no talent. Just QB play. Nothing else. If you say yes, I think you are kidding yourself. It is hard to win a lot of games when your defense is giving up 30-40 points a game.

And again, I never Brady was bad. In fact, I said he was a top 5 QB. I just says he is no longer elite. What is the problem with that. He is good enough to bring a team with a lot of talent like the Bucs to the Super Bowl. He isn't good enough to carry a team devoid of talent like the 2006 Patriots anymore.

Click to expand...

Well then Watson isnt elite either because he couldn't bring a team devoid of talent to the playoffs let alone the Superbowl.

203Pat said:

God I hate him so much.

Click to expand...

He's an azz but the headline is BS. He just stated what he was told by Brady. Gronk told Willie the same thing and McGinest agreed. I don't think it's a secret among players that things are different in NE. Arians is allowing Brady to coach, how is that a dig at the Patriots?

sb1 said:

I don't know if Brady can lift an inferior team up to greatness anymore. He couldn't last season.

But in this situation he's at least a top 5 QB in the league for sure. Would it really surprise anyone if he made an MVP run next season?

Click to expand...

he reminded me of 2012 peyton this season. wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a 2013 peyton next season with a full training camp and off season, assuming they keep the receiving talent

PatsWSB47 said:

Well then Watson isnt elite either because he couldn't bring a team devoid of talent to the playoffs let alone the Superbowl.

Click to expand...

I never said Watson was elite. Only Mahomes and Rodgers fits that category this year. And even a lot of elite QBs cannot carry really bad teams into the playoffs. Only once in a generation QBs type QBs can do that.

TB12TheGoat said:

he reminded me of 2012 peyton this season. wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a 2013 peyton next season with a full training camp and off season, assuming they keep the receiving talent

Click to expand...

Are you saying Brady is starting a dynasty in Tompa? Lmao, that would be classic Brady.

Rob0729 said:

Because when I originally looked at the list I didn't pay that much of attention to the season. Since you have made a big deal about it, I went back and did more research. Watson was the better QB than Brady. I was wrong about Roethlisberger. Watson is arguably the third best QB in the NFL right now after Mahomes and Rodgers. He had next to nothing to work with. His best WR was Brandin Cooks. Cooks is a solid #2 WR, but a mediocre

Do you think Brady played better than Watson this year? Forget the records. Because the Texans had no head coach and no talent. Just QB play. Nothing else. If you say yes, I think you are kidding yourself. It is hard to win a lot of games when your defense is giving up 30-40 points a game.

And again, I never Brady was bad. In fact, I said he was a top 5 QB. I just says he is no longer elite. What is the problem with that. He is good enough to bring a team with a lot of talent like the Bucs to the Super Bowl. He isn't good enough to carry a team devoid of talent like the 2006 Patriots anymore.

Click to expand...

Yeah. One of your major criticisms of Brady is that he can no longer carry a bad team. So Watson being in your top 5 with a 4-12 team this year and one career playoff win makes a ton of sense. This is definitely an airtight argument. This also assumes that Brady, at any point in his career, carried a bad team to a title. Never once happened. But whatever makes you feel better that he isn’t playing here, I guess.

TB12TheGoat said:

he reminded me of 2012 peyton this season. wouldn't be shocked if he pulls a 2013 peyton next season with a full training camp and off season, assuming they keep the receiving talent

Click to expand...

Yup.

If the Patriots don't have an answer at QB by the end of 2021 it would be comical to see them try to go after Brady in FA next winter. Not that they really would but it's fun to think about!

venecol said:

Are you saying Brady is starting a dynasty in Tompa? Lmao, that would be classic Brady.

Click to expand...

maybe not a dynasty but i could see him playing at an mvp/pro bowl level for the next 2-3 years assuming he decides to keep playing

2012 peyton
4659 yards
37 td
11 int

2013 peyton
5477 yards
55 td
10 int

2014 peyton
4727 yards
39 td
15 int


2020 Brady
4633 yards
40 td
12 int

numbers are really similar to 2012 manning. Brady did that in the middle of the virus stuff so he didn't really have time to gel with the new guys. i could see him pulling off a 2012-2014 peyton run stat wise. he also looks way better off the eye test. arm way better than post surgery peyton

venecol said:

He's an azz but the headline is BS. He just stated what he was told by Brady. Gronk told Willie the same thing and McGinest agreed. I don't think it's a secret among players that things are different in NE. Arians is allowing Brady to coach, how is that a dig at the Patriots?

Click to expand...

I just hate that guy and his "I am so great I let Tom do what the Patriots wouldn't" crap.

Rob0729 said:

But my point is not even the Brady of today could do what Brady did over the course of his career.

Click to expand...

Duh

venecol said:

He's an azz but the headline is BS. He just stated what he was told by Brady. Gronk told Willie the same thing and McGinest agreed. I don't think it's a secret among players that things are different in NE. Arians is allowing Brady to coach, how is that a dig at the Patriots?

Click to expand...

Because the Pats are so married to "their way" that they missed given the greatest QB of all time the op to coach which has provided huge dividends for Tampa in season one. This idea that the way Bill did/does things is always right or the best way has been getting debunked every single week of this season.

venecol said:

He's an azz but the headline is BS. He just stated what he was told by Brady. Gronk told Willie the same thing and McGinest agreed. I don't think it's a secret among players that things are different in NE. Arians is allowing Brady to coach, how is that a dig at the Patriots?

Click to expand...

"Like, New England didn’t allow him to coach. I allow him to coach. I just sit back sometimes and watch.”

Isn't it really a dig at himself?