OT: Drew Brees (edit: announced his retirement today)

Now this is a head coach / quarterback debate that has some merit. Unlike the other debate, which is clearly a landslide in favor of the quarterback, I'm giving the advantage to the head coach here. Sean Payton's high percentage high volume passing game made Drew Brees a hall of fame quarterback. For all of his gaudy numbers, Brees is probably not in the conversation for top 5 quarterback of all-time. Not enough postseason success.

crawhammer said:

Now this is a head coach / quarterback debate that has some merit. Unlike the other debate, which is clearly a landslide in favor of the quarterback, I'm giving the advantage to the head coach here. Sean Payton's high percentage high volume passing game made Drew Brees a hall of fame quarterback. For all of his gaudy numbers, Brees is probably not in the conversation for top 5 quarterback of all-time. Not enough postseason success.

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I have no idea how anyone could watch the Saints 2017-present and honestly think this isn’t easily the best coached team in the NFL. A+ offensive line, star players galore, an offensive coordinator whose been there 11 years, Sean Payton’s great schemes and mind games.

Bridgewater, Winston, Hill are a combined 8-1 over the last two seasons.

I think Brees is still a Hall of Fame QB without Payton, but it’s shocking how little credit Payton gets in contrast to Belichick. Today’s game is yet another reminder that coaching legacies are heavily influenced by quarterback performance. Another game where two coaches put their respective teams in a position to be tied in the fourth quarter. That was Brady’s 14th postseason game winning drive; Brees has 3. If you reversed those numbers, you’d reverse much of the playoff records, championships, etc.

sb1 said:

I believe that. No way he wants to end his career on that note.

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It's only gonna get worse for him. He has zero Superbowls left in him.

sb1 said:

I believe that. No way he wants to end his career on that note.

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The arm is gone. And with the cap situation they’ll be a much weaker team next season. I know it’s not the way to go out but it’s time. If he goes another year it’s just for stats and a retirement tour because they aren’t making the playoffs.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I have no idea how anyone could watch the Saints 2017-present and honestly think this isn’t easily the best coached team in the NFL. A+ offensive line, star players galore, an offensive coordinator whose been there 11 years, Sean Payton’s great schemes and mind games.

Bridgewater, Winston, Hill are a combined 8-1 over the last two seasons.

I think Brees is still a Hall of Fame QB with Payton, but it’s shocking how little credit gets in contrast to Belichick. Today’s game is yet another reminder that coaching legacies are heavily influenced by quarterback performance. Another game where two coaches put their respective teams in a position to be tied in the fourth quarter. That was Brady’s 14th postseason game winning drive; Brees has 3. If you reversed those numbers, you’d reverse much of the playoff records, championships, etc.

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Unfortunately for Sean Payton, the cap situation in New Orleans virtually guarantees that the Saints will be a bottom-ten team next year. As we have seen here, that will lead to many giving all the credit for previous success to the QB, and all blame for a losing season to the HC.


On a separate note, it makes no sense for Brees to return. Besides the Saints being a sub-.500 team in 2021, he has to realize that his arm is not what it used to be. Now add in the reminder of the physical pain from all those cracked ribs, and the sobering reality of watching what happened to Patrick Mahomes on Sunday. I can't imagine his family and inner circle of friends will idly stand by and let him return without talking some sense into him, if he considers playing next year.

Brees will retire as the first (and as of this moment only) player with over 80,000 passing yards, and first/only with over 7,000 completions. He not only has the highest single season NFL pass completion percentage, Brees has six of the top nine all time. Add to that the record for consecutive games with a TD pass (54) - plus another separate streak of 45 that ranks 5th. Unfortunately for Brees Jared Cook's fumble and whiff that resulted in a pick resulted in a less than stellar end to Brees' career.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I have no idea how anyone could watch the Saints 2017-present and honestly think this isn’t easily the best coached team in the NFL

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Because I watch the Pats

Kind of looked like New England's 2020 offense wearing Saints uniforms (without a QB sneak option)
QB who can't pass
Zero vertical threat except from gimmicks

If I was any Saints player besides Brees, I'd be wondering if Payton sacrificed any chance of winning by keeping Brees on the field to have his final moment.
Brees should have been pulled.
He was horrendous last night
At least Winston has a functioning arm and his INT rate could not have been worse than Brees last night

sb1 said:

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If Brees does come back he'll likely look good in September and October but his arm gets worse as the year goes on and has done for 2-3 years.

I think Brees is done. The Saints will most likely clear out their cap by trading away Ramczyck, Lattimore, and Thomas for draft capital and start the rebuild. I could see them going with Hill as QB (Winston is a FA). Both Ramczyk and Lattimore are playing on their fifth year options in 2021, so moving them clears over $21 million in cap money with no dead money. Both those salaries become fully guaranteed on march 18th. I think either one returns at least a second rd pick. I guess they can resign both to extensions, but they simpley dont have the cap space for the signing bonuses.

watching last nights game its clear that Drew Brees is washed. Drew Brees from even 2 years ago doesnt have a performance like last night. His passes had no zip on them and he couldnt throw anything deeper than short passes.

one of those interceptions the ball just got away from him. He can still play, but just isnt the same guy he was. just shows how quickly you can go when you are 40+ still playing in the NFL.

Brick27 said:

Not a good outlook for the Saints. In cap hell, ending the road with your franchise QB, and may have to rely on a gimmick QB who will be 31 entering this upcoming season.

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Why does this scenario seem so familiar to me?

Top 2-5 qb of this generation, depending on how you rate him vs vs manning, ben , and Rodgers. His time has clearly come though. He has not been the same since 2018. This game was worse than that loss to the rams. All the best to a class act.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Top 2-5 qb of this generation, depending on how you rate him vs vs manning, ben , and Rodgers. His time has clearly come though. He has not been the same since 2018. This game was worse than that loss to the rams. All the best to a class act.

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Brees used to carry the saints. now, it seems the team is "protecting him" thats a clear sign that they dont trust him as a QB to make plays anymore.

Its entirely possible they couldve won last nights game if they pulled him and put Winston in. I don't think Payton had the gall to end Brees career that way though. But it was telling when they ran the trick play with Winston throwing the ball deep instead of Brees.

1. He's clearly done. That's not to say he won't come back but when you don't throw a pass beyond 20 yards down field except with your backup QB. Now that teams have seen it they're all going to play them like the Bears and Bucs did. Hell when Todd Bowles figures it out......

2. Nobody this side of Manning has done less with more. I'm not saying he isn't a hall of famer but they've continuously lost to inferior teams and laid the excuse on a fluke play or a bad call. They should have blown those teams out but the pucker factor killed them. Is it all on Brees? Of course not but he's had big game changing, mind scratching, interceptions or missed throws. Minnesota twice, the Rams, 7-9 Seahawks.....Come on.

3. His stats are also majorly inflated by playing his entire career in domes or warm weather. He's never had to play even his road games in NY, Buffalo, Chicago and places that Brady and Rodgers have.

4. 9-9 career playoff record and only 6-4 at home. 2-5 road, 1-0 neutral site. (I'll give him full credit for that neutral site game. Probably the best game of his career keeping in mind he played the Pucker Factor 1.0)

Saints basically had one good drive with Brees in the game.

Got 6 points off great returns to start the game
Got 7 points off Winston trick play 50 yard TD.

Could easily have been a blow out.

Nehalem said:

Saints basically had one good drive with Brees in the game.

Got 6 points off great returns to start the game
Got 7 points off Winston trick play 50 yard TD.

Could easily have been a blow out.

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Thats the game of football though.

this could go the other way as well. 2 dropped interceptions by the saints of brady, a fumble by the tight end when the saints were driving, 3 interceptions in your own 20 yard line.

oldrover said:

Why does this scenario seem so familiar to me?

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Because it's the natural result of having an elite legendary QB who you know you have limited time with and are going all out to win at the end of their career. There's always a price to pay on the back end. We just happened to see it coming a bit earlier and decided to get ahead of it instead of the futility of trying to squeeze one more out with a team that wasn't good enough.

And in a way, you can't be mad about it.

One thing I will say is that it's probably in Brees' interest to retire because with that cap hit, the Saints will likely be moving on regardless.