Debate Brady vs Belichick?

Rob0729 said:

You cannot use Belichick's time with the Browns as proof of anything. He was a first time head coach and had a horrible owner who undercut him.

But you can argue that Brady wasn't the GOAT Brady in at least two of his first three Super Bowl wins. He was a pure game manager in 2001. And they won in 2003 with a defense that is easily in the top ten or fifteen greatest defenses of all time with the offense just being good not great. You can make a strong case that Belichick could have won both those seasons with several other QBs in the NFL those years.

Not taking away from Brady because he was still a huge part of those seasons, but he really didn't start to become that special, once in a lifetime QB that he was for most of his career until about 2004.

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From the beginning he was clutch and had his moments (similar to Russel Wilson in 2013/14) and by the Super Bowl in 2003 he was a superstar.

The Patriots are a 9-7 team at best with Brady this season - this WR corps is clearly the least talented in the NFL and all of these guys would normally be 4th depth receivers on most teams with maybe Meyers as a #3 - Harry is another WR bust who should be cut,even in a short sample he sucks - This team deserves a mulligan in 2020 since COVID took out 8 players and the team was strapped in cap hell - Next year they got $71M to spend and a decent FA market to shop in and a heavy dose of decent QBs in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft should they grab one early like Zach WIlson of BYU - There is no Brady anymore so that means no room for error on rebuilding the offense and next year should indicate whether this year was a hiccup and back to being a contender in 2021 or will it be a continuing trend downward to the mediocre or worse levels of the NFL's basement - Its going to be a critical offseason as to what we might see for the next decade as a Patriots team - First offseason thing to do is send Cam Newton and his garbage play at QB out of Boston - Get your popcorn ready

jal said:

From the beginning he was clutch and had his moments (similar to Russel Wilson in 2013/14) and by the Super Bowl in 2003 he was a superstar.

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They don’t win the Super Bowl against the Panthers without him. The defense folded like a cheap tent in the second half.

mikey m said:

Is this a joke? Making this conclusion based on one season of separation with covid, Patriots dealing with a large amount of opt outs, and TB going to a fairly loaded roster (and looking as pathetic as last year at times). Absurd on every level.

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He’s thrown 36 TDs (3rd most in his career) and is taking a perennial loser franchise to the playoffs for the first time since 2007. Your post is absurd on many levels.

jal said:

Hard disagree. If you’ve been watching all of the games you’ve seen real development over the course of the season. And more importantly for this discussion, physically Tom has been on point all season. It’s been the lack of continuity : disjointed playcalling where the Bucs have run into issues.

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Perhaps discontinuity has hampered TB. Perhaps its his age and ability. Perhaps BB was hampered by discontinuity and opt outs, perhaps he's not an amazing coach apart from TB. Whatever these answers are, takes more than one f***** up season to tell and this thread is ridiculous.

KontradictioN said:

They don’t win the Super Bowl against the Panthers without him. The defense folded like a cheap tent in the second half.

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Injuries didn’t help. Neither was Eugene Wilson getting smoked

Boomer B said:

He’s thrown 36 TDs (3rd most in his career) and is taking a perennial loser franchise to the playoffs for the first time since 2007. Your post is absurd on many levels.

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Regardless of history past, that roster is loaded. You can't say he's taking anything anywhere.

mikey m said:

That offense is loaded. He has been thoroughly unimpressive (if we are ignoring his age) and would have looked mediocre in the pats current offense, which BB deserves criticism for.

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Another troll. Top 4 in TD passes. Top 2 in yards. Get lost

......aaaaand the age old question is pretty much settled. Brady was more important perhaps by a lot. This team is a disaster without him. I know that we didn't look good last year either but we were still 12-4 and Brady wasn't making boneheaded plays like Cam to lose us games.

We can close the book on this debate if Brady gets back to another Super Bowl.

jal said:

From the beginning he was clutch and had his moments (similar to Russel Wilson in 2013/14) and by the Super Bowl in 2003 he was a superstar.

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He threw for 145 yards in that superbowl..

Boomer B said:

Another troll. Top 4 in TD passes. Top 2 in yards. Get lost

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THAT OFFENSE IS LOADED. Need me to say it louder boomer?

mikey m said:

Regardless of history past, that roster is loaded. You can't say he's taking anything anywhere.

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So loaded they didn’t sniff the playoffs or a winning season in years.

lancerman said:

Bill is punting down by 29 in the 4th. He isn’t going for the win brother

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So he tried to get embarrassed on MNF? He punted down by 29 in the 4th because the offense is a trainwreck and pathetically the f'ing punter is their best player.

mikey m said:

THAT OFFENSE IS LOADED. Need me to say it louder boomer?

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So loaded they didn’t sniff a winning season or the playoffs until Tom showed up. Scream it as loud as you want troll, answer is still the same.

mikey m said:

He threw for 145 yards in that superbowl..

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Sb36 he did. Sb 38 in 2003 he threw for 354.

mikey m said:

Perhaps discontinuity has hampered TB. Perhaps its his age and ability. Perhaps BB was hampered by discontinuity and opt outs, perhaps he's not an amazing coach apart from TB. Whatever these answers are, takes more than one f***** up season to tell and this thread is ridiculous.

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Belichick's record before and after Brady is not a pretty one,A blind man can see that much of his coaching success has been at the hands of the best Quarterback to ever play the position and when Brady has not been the starter Bill's teams have had losing records other than the 2008 team which had much of its roster from the 18-1 team intact - Bill has GOT to hit on a WR stud this draft,this is one area where he has failed at more times than not and now its no longer a situation where his quarterback will make a bust look decent anymore,its a must hit among other positions to stay relevant in 2021.

mikey m said:

Is this a joke? Making this conclusion based on one season of separation with covid, Patriots dealing with a large amount of opt outs, and TB going to a fairly loaded roster (and looking as pathetic as last year at times). Absurd on every level.

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Y'all couldn't handle people supposedly making excuses for Brady last season but for Bill? All the excuses in the world.

mikey m said:

THAT OFFENSE IS LOADED. Need me to say it louder boomer?

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He’s still been impressive. He’s not making the mistakes winston did and it shows with their current record.

This season was a demonstration of how the best coach will not win many games with a crap QB.

But an all time great QB can make up for a sub par coach.

The “system QB” argument is dead and buried.

Rob0729 said:

You cannot use Belichick's time with the Browns as proof of anything. He was a first time head coach and had a horrible owner who undercut him.

But you can argue that Brady wasn't the GOAT Brady in at least two of his first three Super Bowl wins. He was a pure game manager in 2001. And they won in 2003 with a defense that is easily in the top ten or fifteen greatest defenses of all time with the offense just being good not great. You can make a strong case that Belichick could have won both those seasons with several other QBs in the NFL those years.

Not taking away from Brady because he was still a huge part of those seasons, but he really didn't start to become that special, once in a lifetime QB that he was for most of his career until about 2004.

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Patriots don't go 11-5 with Bledsoe. Patriots don't win the Raiders game without Brady's late game performance (plus tuck rule). Patriots don't win that Super Bowl without Brady. Pats also don't win SB 38 without Brady having a lights out performance when the defense was running on fumes and getting shredded, plus he led us to the game winning FG.

Those first two Super Bowls are not won without Brady. They are probably not winning seasons without him either.