Marqise Lee Opts Out

Taco said:

His career is over

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Agreed, that was a retirement decision as much as an "opt-out".

Comments:

1.) I didn't have Lee making our 53 man roster anyway.

2.) Happy to have his contract toll...more time away from his recent injuries. He could contribute next year.

3.) Side note: I found it interesting that they brought back Lewkre over J'Marr Smith. I am guessing Lewkre is more polished and ready to make pro-style practice throws? Smith seems to have more untapped talent. Maybe not enough time to develop Smith.

Ross12 said:

Tangentially related - something I’ve been very curious about which Miguel confirms, whether signing bonus proration still counts this year or if the FULL cap hits this year for opted out players are moved into next year including the proration. If the full hits are moved into next year, Pats will have about $35m in cap space this season...



Now, that said, I don’t think they’ll go out and make a big signing in FA with that money. But let’s just say Cam looks really good over the next few weeks and Bill loves the fit... Could Bill theoretically extend Cam right now to a long-term deal now that he has money available and not have to risk free agency next year? If Cam is interested, of course. Just thinking out loud.

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Keep in mind that a lot of this cap space vanishes magically when the opted out players return, and on top of that you have the lowering of the cap. I'd suggest they be very very careful with that space other than more one year prove it type deals.

Honestly forgot we signed this guy.

rochrist said:

Keep in mind that a lot of this cap space vanishes magically when the opted out players return, and on top of that you have the lowering of the cap. I'd suggest they be very very careful with that space other than more one year prove it type deals.

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The Pats won't be the only team facing this, soon enough. Is there room for the League to manipulate the caps over the next few years to reduce the highs and lows, or did all that go out the window in negotiations with the players?

Ras-IR Dowling said:

Honestly forgot we signed this guy.

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"Hi Bill, I'm just here to tell you I'm going to opt-out this year. I know how hard this will be on the team, but this is what I think is best for me."

"Uh, thanks for letting me know. Could you remind me again what your name is?"

Ross12 said:

Now, that said, I don’t think they’ll go out and make a big signing in FA with that money. But let’s just say Cam looks really good over the next few weeks and Bill loves the fit... Could Bill theoretically extend Cam right now to a long-term deal now that he has money available and not have to risk free agency next year? If Cam is interested, of course. Just thinking out loud.

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Something that Lombardi said last week in his podcast -- and what was independently mentioned by the likes of Howe, Giardi and Perry over the last 3 years -- is that the Pats won't sign any major FA without then having to adjust Cam's contract. The way Howe described it back in the days was that their salary structure is usually a ladder that somewhat corresponds to the players depth chart position / their usage. The exceptions to all this has usually been rookies (who have a set pay structure) and also often contracts they traded for.

That's why underpaid players like Chung or Ninkovich often got salary bumps.

I mention this to say that I can absolutely see Cam's contract changing but it wouldn't necessarily be to extend him but to bump him up to a more reasonable salary relative to players they might add.

Still think we will see something happen on the interior DL.

Jeff Thomas isn't mad I know that.

One-If-By-Sea said:

Lee might know he is not fully healed and this way he has a chance next year when healed. If he sat out 2020 without a contract (before Opt Outs were possible) it is doubtful he would get a chance in 2021, so he signed a deal without being fully healed. This gives him the time to heal and a chance in 2021.

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Andrew Brandt had a good point about guys not likely to make the team: of course they will take the $150k. The teams realize in most cases they won't get the $150k back once they cut the guy, just like pretty much any advances they've paid to guys who get cut. The team can file a case, can get a judgement, but good luck getting any of the money back. The players know this too. He says one of the reasons the agreement between players and the league isn't finalized is the owners are trying to figure out a way to limit their exposure to replacement level guys taking the $150k and not paying it back.

Bill Lee said:

Andrew Brandt had a good point about guys not likely to make the team: of course they will take the $150k. The teams realize in most cases they won't get the $150k back once they cut the guy, just like pretty much any advances they've paid to guys who get cut. The team can file a case, can get a judgement, but good luck getting any of the money back. The players know this too. He says one of the reasons the agreement between players and the league isn't finalized is the owners are trying to figure out a way to limit their exposure to replacement level guys taking the $150k and not paying it back.

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That is an issue too, but not many opted out, so the exposure must be limited.

One-If-By-Sea said:

That is an issue too, but not many opted out, so the exposure must be limited.

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I think the ones that have opted out early have a lot of concerns about the virus itself. I think more will opt out on the last day and it'll be more about getting the $150k versus getting cut and getting nothing. I think the vets that opt out early are helping the young guys get a better feel for their odds of making the team or not. One thing Andrew says: Deadlines spur actions. Those in camp now are getting per-deim and expert coaching. They'll keep the dream alive as long as they can. On deadline day it'll be all about the cash.

Bill Lee said:

I think the ones that have opted out early have a lot of concerns about the virus itself. I think more will opt out on the last day and it'll be more about getting the $150k versus getting cut and getting nothing. I think the vets that opt out early are helping the young guys get a better feel for their odds of making the team or not. One thing Andrew says: Deadlines spur actions. Those in camp now are getting per-deim and expert coaching. They'll keep the dream alive as long as they can. On deadline day it'll be all about the cash.

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I agree with your projection. Now we have to wait for the deal to be signed and then wait for the final opt-out day. Latest news is that the opt-out option will end Wednesday, August 5th.

rochrist said:

Keep in mind that a lot of this cap space vanishes magically when the opted out players return

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HIGHTOWER
Presuming no changes in contract, what is Hightower's effect on the cap with and without his opt-out.

How much does the team benefit cap-wise from his opting out? And,, of course, I'd prefer having Hightower playing; that isn't the question.

When the side letter to the CBA is signed, per Miguel’s post earlier, Hightower’s full salary, with bonuses, and prorated signing bonus will convey from the 2020 cap to the 2021 cap. $ 12.445 million goes off the 2020 cap and is added to the 2021 cap.

mgteich said:

HIGHTOWER
Presuming no changes in contract, what is Hightower's effect on the cap with and without his opt-out.

How much does the team benefit cap-wise from his opting out? And,, of course, I'd prefer having Hightower playing; that isn't the question.

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My understanding is that High's 2020 salary of 12.4 million comes off the cap. My point was that it goes right back on next year which is why I think a lot of this sudden cap space is somewhat illusory.

luuked said:

His family had child early this year.

Now bring back Zuber please.

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Reiss is reporting that Zuber is back in town on a visit. That’s likely code for “ he needs to pass his tests before he’s resigned”. I think that also answers why the Pats are taking their time replacing the opt outs. It makes sense to have players pass their tests before being signed.

rochrist said:

My understanding is that High's 2020 salary of 12.4 million comes off the cap. My point was that it goes right back on next year which is why I think a lot of this sudden cap space is somewhat illusory.

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It is a matter of perspective. When I look at the 2021 cap, I look at the total. Hightower's option took $12M of the cap this year. Any amounts left unspent will move into next year. So, for me, any savings, say $8M if we sign a $4M LB, will increase our cap room in 2021.

Kenneth Sims said:

When the side letter to the CBA is signed, per Miguel’s post earlier, Hightower’s full salary, with bonuses, and prorated signing bonus will convey from the 2020 cap to the 2021 cap. $ 12.445 million goes off the 2020 cap and is added to the 2021 cap.

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Are we saying that Hightower will cost the team $20M in 2021?

luuked said:

Something that Lombardi said last week in his podcast -- and what was independently mentioned by the likes of Howe, Giardi and Perry over the last 3 years -- is that the Pats won't sign any major FA without then having to adjust Cam's contract. The way Howe described it back in the days was that their salary structure is usually a ladder that somewhat corresponds to the players depth chart position / their usage. The exceptions to all this has usually been rookies (who have a set pay structure) and also often contracts they traded for.

That's why underpaid players like Chung or Ninkovich often got salary bumps.

I mention this to say that I can absolutely see Cam's contract changing but it wouldn't necessarily be to extend him but to bump him up to a more reasonable salary relative to players they might add.

Still think we will see something happen on the interior DL.

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Somewhat along the lines of what I was thinking, thanks for sharing that info.

mgteich said:

It is a matter of perspective. When I look at the 2021 cap, I look at the total. Hightower's option took $12M of the cap this year. Any amounts left unspent will move into next year. So, for me, any savings, say $8M if we sign a $4M LB, will increase our cap room in 2021.

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Uh....no. That's the opposite of how it works. In your scenario, 8 mil would come OFF our cap room.