Bill the GM/HC

He is a good GM and an outstanding coach. But I would say that the last 4-5 years have been bad GM wise simply based on his drafts.

He had some bad luck but he had also some bad picks. The Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones of the world. He had fail to draft the new core and it’s the reason the team is in rebuild mode. There is a lack of talent in this roster that is glairing. We need that almost all of our 2020 picks pan out otherwise we are screwed

Lagaffe_07 said:

He is a good GM and an outstanding coach. But I would say that the last 4-5 years have been bad GM wise simply based on his drafts.

He had some bad luck but he had also some bad picks. The Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones of the world. He had fail to draft the new core and it’s the reason the team is in rebuild mode. There is a lack of talent in this roster that is glairing. We need that almost all of our 2020 picks pan out otherwise we are screwed

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He built the best secondary even with those whiffs. Trading well and also signing free agents well is part of the job. He's an elite GM. We have the defensive player of the year. And next to him is a league top5 CB who was an undrafted street free agent.

DropKickFlutie said:

He built the best secondary even with those whiffs. Trading well and also signing free agents well is part of the job. He's an elite GM. We have the defensive player of the year. And next to him is a league top5 CB who was an undrafted street free agent.

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yeah but that’s it. Gilmore is here for one or two more years, McCourthy also, JC Jackson is good but you can’t count on finding great player in UDFA every year. After that we have nothing. On offense we actually have nothing but yeah he is an elite GM. He hasn’t been great the last 5 years.

Brady masked many roster building mistakes over the years. You can even say he masked coaching mistakes over the years.

Bill is not the best GM in the NFL we have this impression because we win but that is more because of coaching and having the GOAT.

He is easily the best coach in the league and also a top GM in the salary cap era. Hands down.

They have had a consistent top 5 offense essentially for the last 13 years, a defense that allowed the fewest points against since 2001 and excellent ST.

Consistently getting below value FAs, midseason trades for players that end up with key roles, a historic run of finding UDFA diamonds and overall fine drafts given the late draft slots due to being so successful. It is doubtful anyone ever navigated and maximized the salary cap as sharply as BB has.

This team has been comprehensively set up for success by BB and developing Brady into the GOAT was just a multiplier on top of it all.

And while every other team's success went up and down in cycles -- even those that had a HoF level QB play and/or HoF coaching -- we kept grinding away AFCCGs as an annual tradition.


People keep completely overrating what it means to be the best or the GOAT in some aspect in football. It doesn't mean you are infallible and every move is successful. It means that on average you create a bigger edge than our competitors which will translate to more success over time.

Brady was never twice as good as other top 5 QBs. He was maybe 10% better in the average situation but that had a pretty large cumulative effect over a game/a season/a career. The same is true for BBs coaching and GM work.

I will not argue with you that he was great GM wise.

my point is that he hasn’t been great the last few years. You can say whatever you want but now we are in a hole.

he had more coaching blunders in the last 5 years than ever before (end of 2015, who probably cost us a trip to the SB, the Butler fiasco who cost us a SB, etc).

I’m not saying he is trash but I don’t view him as a God who never make mistakes like some people do, that’s all.

I have no idea how BB could ever be seen as the excellent GM he is, unless he hits on 100% of his draft picks.

First, it would be interesting to see who the haters on this board would prefer as the GM. Then, we need to ask them if only draft picks count or if a GM gets any credit for trades, FAs (both before and in seasons), as well as the decisions revolving around who gets the big contract and who is let go. On that last one alone, I’d say BB is an excellent GM, as it is one of the most crucial aspects of FA era longevity.

« Did you like Cyrus Jones ? » - a second round pick BB was wrong about - is a monstrously ridiculous way of evaluating a 20+ year GM. BB has missed on many picks. He’s made many picks. He’s also acquired talent outside of the draft and the winning has never stopped.

This is a tough conversation to have without agreement on what the GM rating criteria are, and how to weight them. Some to consider:

• creating and maintaining a personnel philosophy
• managing the cap, in the current year and years going forward
• managing the salary structure of the team, with players in relation to each other, and to players on other teams
• selecting, hiring, supervising a personnel organization
• building a roster with an eye toward who the competition will be in the next 1-3 years
• ongoing and constant evaluation of personnel on other NFL teams
• trades
• foreign player scouting
• recruiting free agents once they've decided on who they want
• the college draft and the college scouting to support it

What else?
And how would you rank those duties in terms of their relative importance?

I'd suggest that in evaluating GM's, we over weight the college draft because of its visibility.

You cannot have the greatest 20 year run in the history of the NFL w/o being very good at talent acquisition. I would probably rate his ability to manage the cap as his greatest skill and moving players in and out to maximize their talent vs salary. Moves like getting T. Brown and Van Noy for little, getting them to play at a Pro Bowl level while playing for peanuts then letting them go while garnering a comp pick to me epitomizes what BB is all about. He has drafted with the least amount of draft capital due to team record and stolen picks yet has had team in the top 4 virtually every year. Like everyone his drafting has been up and down but most comparisons I have seen show the Pats in the top quarter of teams over various periods of time. I would consider him a better GM than Coach but it is close.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Yeah let's keep it as a GM. And you know I don't use the "6 Ringz" hammer. Strictly GM moves.

Recently his drafts haven't been fire but 2017 was a crazy draft. Garcia and Rivers dealing with major injuries. Maybe they get blame for AG but Rivers has had **** luck. Wise has been decent. All mid round picks. I like the last 2 drafts but it's still early.
Ok so Bill definitely has his misses but consider Sey, Wilfork, Jones, DMC, HT, Gronk, Samuel, Slater, Edleman.

Bolded are HOF or very close. Italics are a tier below but will have strongholds among fans. 7 besides Brady is kinda nuts to me. Then you have Light, Koppen, Givens, Thuney, Warren, Branch. All after round 1.

Just wondering who has multiple HOF picks under their belt? Schneider has 3-4 (Wilson, Wags, Sherman, Kam) with a bunch of other sweet picks.

Loomis has been absolutely killing it. Howie. Colbert and Veach. Robinson and Ballard have been great.

I get the wanting more, recently from the draft but it's not fair to Bill to judge him short term.

And again, who's better from a collective standpoint? Personally I think hes been top 5 - #1 but am open to other opinions.

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I agree overall he has been a good drafter. My issue is once Brady started needing more help Bill's draft classes were at their worst. In the last few years he has drafted two good guards and then some role players with a bunch of major busts thrown in. Luckily he has hit on some UDFA's at corner where he routinely swings and misses in the second round when he takes one. He also supplemented some of the poor receiver picks with third tier free agent receivers, who while more expensive than a draft pick, performed well in their roles ie. Lafell and Hogan. Since he is able to supplement some of the bad picks and rarely "loses" a trade I would still say overall he has been a very good GM in spite of the very bad recent draft classes.

As for anyone on his level as a GM over relatively the same time period (strictly building teams/picking players not just "hurr durr 6 rings!") there aren't a ton. I would put Ozzie Newsome up there. He built some very good teams and drafted three guys who are already hall of famers (Lewis, Ogden, Reed) and three more whom I would say are very likely (Yanda, Suggs, Ngata) as well as lots of other very good players. Like Bill has recently, some of his final few draft classes weren't great but if we were going by strictly drafting players I would say Newsome is the best drafter even over Bill in their era.

farn said:

I have no idea how BB could ever be seen as the excellent GM he is, unless he hits on 100% of his draft picks.

First, it would be interesting to see who the haters on this board would prefer as the GM. Then, we need to ask them if only draft picks count or if a GM gets any credit for trades, FAs (both before and in seasons), as well as the decisions revolving around who gets the big contract and who is let go. On that last one alone, I’d say BB is an excellent GM, as it is one of the most crucial aspects of FA era longevity.

« Did you like Cyrus Jones ? » - a second round pick BB was wrong about - is a monstrously ridiculous way of evaluating a 20+ year GM. BB has missed on many picks. He’s made many picks. He’s also acquired talent outside of the draft and the winning has never stopped.

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winning has never stop because we had the greatest QB who ever lived.

Lagaffe_07 said:

winning has never stop because we had the greatest QB who ever lived.

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Winning has never stopped because the GOAT QB realized that this is a team sport and he can't do it himself and thus gave the best coach in the business more resources to built a team around him that could consistently compete for two decades.

This glorification of Brady into football Jesus is getting really old. If being a HoF level QB is all it takes then the Saints and Packers would have been somewhat similarly successful. Unfortunately those didn't have a coaching staff that had them practice goal line plays against the Seahawks, come up with creative ways to move the ball on offense when the regular stuff didn't work against the Ravens or had multiple 2 point plays ready in a SB where exactly that was needed.

Furthermore this attitude also cheapens all the effort and work it took for the other 52 players to get the team into positions to win.

Those other teams with elite QBs didn't have role players rise up because they are used exactly to their strengths and game changing ST plays because they cheapened out on that group.

Matt Miller is a clown.

Brady didn't appear out of the aether, he was drafted and carried on a roster with 4 QB's.

Tom Brady wins zero rings from 2001-2004 without BB drafting Richard Seymour (NFL All-Decade Team)... this guy should write something he knows about... basket weaving maybe.

Bill sucks as a GM, he's lucky he stumbled upon Brady in the 6th round. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

Bill has 6 rings as HC/GM. He has no peer. No one has done a better job of cap management, period.

That should sum up this topic from both sides.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

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BB hired Ozzie Newsome... checkmate.

Matt Miller is dumb and NFLDraftscout irrelevant since Draftscout.com broke off from them and took all their talent to start a new site.

Lagaffe_07 said:

winning has never stop because we had the greatest QB who ever lived.

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Name the GM at the head of a dynasty that didn’t have a HoF QB. Brady is amazing. But that doesn’t detract from BB’s excellence at both HC & GM.

luuked said:

Winning has never stopped because the GOAT QB realized that this is a team sport and he can't do it himself and thus gave the best coach in the business more resources to built a team around him that could consistently compete for two decades.

This glorification of Brady into football Jesus is getting really old. If being a HoF level QB is all it takes then the Saints and Packers would have been somewhat similarly successful. Unfortunately those didn't have a coaching staff that had them practice goal line plays against the Seahawks, come up with creative ways to move the ball on offense when the regular stuff didn't work against the Ravens or had multiple 2 point plays ready in a SB where exactly that was needed.

Furthermore this attitude also cheapens all the effort and work it took for the other 52 players to get the team into positions to win.

Those other teams with elite QBs didn't have role players rise up because they are used exactly to their strengths and game changing ST plays because they cheapened out on that group.

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^Yes to all

BaconGrundleCandy said:

How is Bill as a GM? Is anyone better, who? Let's hear it.

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I await the definitive answer from Captain Stone.

Lagaffe_07 said:

winning has never stop because we had the greatest QB who ever lived.

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Just as easy to say it this way, and just as valid: We had the greatest QB who ever lived because the winning never stopped.

TheRainMaker said:

Correcting Dave Brown, Bill Polian won 3 in a row with the Bills.

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I'm nitpicking, but "in the salary cap era" is an important part of Brown's point. The salary cap went into effect in 1994, so Polian's accomplishments in Buffalo predate that. That doesn't mean winning 4 straight AFCCGs is unimpressive, just that Polian (and the other GMs he was competing against) didn't have to deal with managing the salary cap.

oldrover said:

I await the definitive answer from Captain Stone.

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I'm surprised we haven't heard from @captain stone yet.

Koma said:

I'm nitpicking, but "in the salary cap era" is an important part of Brown's point. The salary cap went into effect in 1994, so Polian's accomplishments in Buffalo predate that. That doesn't mean winning 4 straight AFCCGs is unimpressive, just that Polian (and the other GMs he was competing against) didn't have to deal with managing the salary cap.

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Got it.