Cam and Harry

RIpats88 · Jul 10, 2020

I dont get the brady bashing. But how I internalize it is really where would the Pat's go with brady this year? Maybe if gronk still came back we would have a shot. But last year was not pretty offensively and we didnt get much better this year.

I am excited to see cam in a patriots uniform though. Just to see what bill and josh come up with as an offense. I do think cam for better or for worse will take more risks throwing to a covered Nkeal Harry than brady...

scott99 · Jul 10, 2020

It's been mentioned on Twitter that Cam is working with Harry again today, as well as Devin Asiasi. I really think Cam is gonna like the weapons here despite the press & some fans disrespecting them. I think he's gonna love working with Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Asiasi & Keene especially. He always went to his TE in Carolina, so Asiasi & Keene could be great secret weapons.

amfootball · Jul 10, 2020

JarOfMayo51 said:
He was never drafted to be anything like Antonio Brown.. they are completely different types of WR/athlete..

thats like saying an H3 Hummer doesn't look as quick as a Ferrari

Sure. I was not saying he was AB. I was just comparing route running as that is comparable receiver to receiver and paramount in having success at the NFL level. So is footwork. Harry has a long way to go but in fairness he was injured most of last year so hopefully he can get on track this year despite no off-season.

PatriotsReign · Jul 10, 2020

BaconGrundleCandy said:
I saw this and immediately wanted to @ @captain stone and start a thread but I'm a coward.

Pet peeve time and dumb rant ...
Fuxkin christ and the old gods explode off your 1st step my man. Shoot and roll out of and onto your step. Fuxkin feet turn each time. Left & right I believe. Fuxkin years in college, not a rookie and was hustling at footwork camp this off-season. Enough is enough.

May God bless you

upstater1 · Jul 10, 2020

JarOfMayo51 said:
Still sad that Brady is gone, but it will be fun to see the offense rebooted and take on a new identity. Brady's experience in some ways became a detriment to younger WRs, because he expected them to understand football the same way he does after 20 years which is just unrealistic. He really didn't trust or want to spend a lot of time with younger WRs, he likes his veterans. I wonder how much that has played into us not being able to develop any good WRs outside of Edelman?

Going to be more turnovers this year, but should be some exciting plays as well. Cam will throw jump balls to Harry and give him a chance to make plays, it was extremely rare for Brady to ever really throw a 50/50 ball and give his player a chance to make a play outside of Gronk

Newton also provides the ability to extend a broken play and either run or make a big play downfield.. So it will be exciting to see that element added to our offense (not sure if it will outweigh the frustration of turnovers, but will still be exciting to watch when it works in our favor!)

Another nice thing, our defense seems to struggle with mobile QBs, so now they'll be able to play against Cam in practice to better prepare them for opponents. I'm sure we'll incorporate some QB options, wildcat and RPO as well

I'm really excited about this year, it will be entertaining to see what this new team looks like post-Brady

I never believed the young WR thing.

Mitchell was young, Branch was young, Givens, a few others. These young guys did great with Brady.

The young guys who didn't went to other teams and----- did what? Nothing.

I posted here a few months ago about the Patriots WR draft breakdown compared to the Steelers. The Steelers drafted 4x as many top round WRs as the Patriots over the last decade, which explains their success.

The Patriots with Dobson, and Boyce, and Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Bethel Johnson, these guys were not going to cut it anywhere in the NFL. And they didn't. Didn't matter if they played with Brady, Marino or anyone.

JarOfMayo51 · Jul 10, 2020

upstater1 said:
I never believed the young WR thing.

Mitchell was young, Branch was young, Givens, a few others. These young guys did great with Brady.

The young guys who didn't went to other teams and----- did what? Nothing.

I posted here a few months ago about the Patriots WR draft breakdown compared to the Steelers. The Steelers drafted 4x as many top round WRs as the Patriots over the last decade, which explains their success.

The Patriots with Dobson, and Boyce, and Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Bethel Johnson, these guys were not going to cut it anywhere in the NFL. And they didn't. Didn't matter if they played with Brady, Marino or anyone.

Branch and Givens were earlier in Tom's career when he was also young

203Pat · Jul 10, 2020

upstater1 said:
I never believed the young WR thing.

Mitchell was young, Branch was young, Givens, a few others. These young guys did great with Brady.

The young guys who didn't went to other teams and----- did what? Nothing.

I posted here a few months ago about the Patriots WR draft breakdown compared to the Steelers. The Steelers drafted 4x as many top round WRs as the Patriots over the last decade, which explains their success.

The Patriots with Dobson, and Boyce, and Chad Jackson, Taylor Price, Bethel Johnson, these guys were not going to cut it anywhere in the NFL. And they didn't. Didn't matter if they played with Brady, Marino or anyone.

This is my argument. He didn’t blackball them in the offense because he didn’t like them. They weren’t good enough NFL players and that’s why they never went on to have any success in the league.

NG Pats Fan · Jul 10, 2020

Cam Newton is legit. Pats are a playoff team with him potentially. unlike with Stidham, we are a 5-11 team

TheRainMaker · Jul 10, 2020

amfootball said:
He does not look quick because he isn't quick. We didn't sign him for speed, remember? And his breaks are horrible. He has no explosion and no moves to get open. When you watch film of AB you see the quickness, the explosion, the sharp routes. This guy has none of that. High school players have better foot work than him. Let's hope Newton has some good jump balls for him.

Harry seems like he has a good attitude and is working hard to get the critics off of his back.

amfootball said:
That is how folks are trying to work out all their anger because the GOAT is gone when Bill could have signed him. I don't blame them as now we are stuck with a barrel of complete junk at the QB position while Brady signed on to a power house offensive team.

It was best for BB and TB to part ways.

scott99 · Jul 10, 2020

NG Pats Fan said:
Cam Newton is legit. Pats are a playoff team with him potentially. unlike with Stidham, we are a 5-11 team

There’s literally no way this hypothetical can be proven. So many variables. What if Stidham wins the job over Cam ? That means he kicked ass in camp and has the potential to be good. What if Cam wins the job, but stinks up the field ? What if the Pats lose key offensive players ? Too many variables to say we definitely make the playoffs if Cam starts, or we are definitely a 5-11 team if Stidham wins the job. It literally can’t be proven. The only facts will be played out on the field.

Ross12 · Jul 10, 2020

Interesting that Asiasi is there with them too. That dude has all the tools to be great if he can put it together, I think. Not expecting Gronk-level greatness but I like his potential. Newton knows how to use the TE.

bigballas · Jul 10, 2020

Stiddy's gone all Brady now and can't hang w the team before camp? sad...

I was told he's the starter

TheRainMaker · Jul 10, 2020

bigballas said:
Stiddy's gone all Brady now and can't hang w the team before camp? sad...

I was told he's the starter

It’s more like the skill players are aligning with Cam (which is obvious). Stidum probably wasn’t invited.

And nobody told you he’s the starter.

DropKickFlutie · Jul 10, 2020

Ross12 said:
Interesting that Asiasi is there with them too. That dude has all the tools to be great if he can put it together, I think. Not expecting Gronk-level greatness but I like his potential. Newton knows how to use the TE.

Asiasi is the difference between a 59% completion Newton and a 65% completion Newton.

.

upstater1 · Jul 11, 2020

JarOfMayo51 said:
Branch and Givens were earlier in Tom's career when he was also young

What about Mitchell?

I didn't leave anyone out by the way.

I listed the sum total of young guys that played with Tom. There were 3 that panned out and 5 that didn't.

And those 5 never did anything with any other QB in the league either.

We've seen Brady have success with Mitchell, Branch, Givens, and a bunch of WRs like Caldwell, Gaffney, Hogan, who never did anything much until they played with Brady.

How can anyone conclude he doesn't work well with young WRs?

If you gave him the Steelers young kids he would have had much greater success.

luuked · Jul 11, 2020

JarOfMayo51 said:
Still sad that Brady is gone, but it will be fun to see the offense rebooted and take on a new identity. Brady's experience in some ways became a detriment to younger WRs, because he expected them to understand football the same way he does after 20 years which is just unrealistic.

Given where the league is going in terms of offense he was also starting to become a detriment to game planning.

Often games became frustrating to watch whenever we faced an opponent with good coaching and talented players that were prepared + disciplined enough to not give us freebies and stay a lot in man coverage because being a pure pocket passer is just inherently limiting in 2020.

And that's not a knock on Brady. He played through the golden age of pocket passers right into what looks like the start of an era with considerably more dynamic QB play. Times are a-changin.

The league is ever evolving and having a new start with Cam where we will see a lot of concepts that we have not really seen before baked into the solid foundation of the McDaniels offense is exciting to me. Can't wait how he uses Cam's abilities as new items in his box of tools to screw with defenses.

captain stone · Jul 11, 2020

reamer said:
Newton has experience with big receivers that didn't necessarily need a ton of separation (Benjamin, Funchess). This could be a great pairing. Harry offers more after the catch than either of those two players.

Based on...?

captain stone · Jul 11, 2020

BaconGrundleCandy said:
This is basic stuff if you know the position. It's wasted movements for an already big guy. Yeah it's practice but isn't that when you're supposed be on point, sharpening your skills to translate to games?
These are things that have been hurting him since college. Those "draft evals" I wrote were some of the first to bring up his problems at the los. Arms should be tighter coming out of his breaks as well. He can't get cute with his feet bc of size but he could incorporate some hand, head, shoulder fakes off the line.

I know, I know, I'm just some guy on my couch. I shouldn't be weighing in on subjects like this unless I'm some reporter or coach.

If you look at :13 & :26 you can see the turn. Maybe :17 but I have to slow that down. Either way this is basic stuff even a ****** like me can pick up on.
View attachment 27756

Agreed...And was it you or someone else in one of the pre-draft WR threads in the draft forum last year who warned that Harry has a higher bust factor than some of the other similarly-ranked receivers? Good call.

DropKickFlutie · Jul 12, 2020

If Newton puts up 3500 yards passing:
- Edelman 800 yards
- Sanu 700 yards
- Harry 500 yards
- James White 500 yards
- Asiasi 500 yards
- Meyer 300 yards
- Keene 200 yards

Joey007 · Jul 12, 2020

I think it’s been well discussed at nauseous levels, wouldn’t you say? Everyone is well aware of the season as COVID pertains to it. So why keep bringing it up? There’s literally no reason, especially in the considering it was not even close to being what was discussed.

Cam and Harry

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