Our Heritage. Our History. Who We Are.

goheels22002 · Jul 7, 2020

Actual Pats Fan said:
Happy Fourth Of July. So who's in favor of replacing the American Flag?

Anyone?

On the subject of heritage and history, this is an informative, reality-based look:

I don't care what you think that represents, you're not babysitting my f*cking kid tonight.

The endless media fake narrative of Patriots Evil/Mediocrity since 1970 is more pervasive today than ever.

The legion of KraftFans chant the following incessantly:

"We sucked before. We never won anything before. We were an embarrassment before. We were a laughingstock before."

The fact is Billy Sullivan is an astronomically better owner than George Halas, a worthless total racist who is rotting in Hell eternally.

The longest losing streak for the Patriots remains seven (7) seasons, a fraction of that for all the other franchises.

"The flying elvis symbolizes winning."

No, the flying elvis has and will only ever symbolize the deliberate, malevolent effort on the part of wealthy old men who hate the Patriots to erase their history and give false legitimacy and false credibility to the wrong narrative that we sucked.

We. Never. Sucked.

Try to take the suckiest period of time in team history: it's 1972 or 1990.

We still won three games in '72, including against the Super Bowl-bound Washington (former Boston) (soon to be renamed) Redskins. And it led to the historic hiring of [should-be Pats HOFer] Chuck Fairbanks.

In 1990 we simply had no quarterback, because (really inappropriately named) Victor Kiam let Doug Flutie go spend the prime of his career setting records and winning titles in Canada. And if you buy the Lisa Olson nonsense, you've never spoken to the women who attempted legitimately to gain access to the Cowboys' or Giants' locker rooms, and heard exactly how they were treated by those organizations.

Every single day of the calendar year, For years, @jmt57 has posted the heroics of usually several great Pats players and great Pats games, mostly prior to 1993.

Orthwein intended to bury our history, "leaving our memories in the rear view mirror", and Kraft continues to try to erase and minimize it. Kraft especially, emboldened the NFL's crusade to denigrate and destroy the team.

Did the Celtics suck because they had a string of lousy owners after Walter Brown passed away? No.

A miserable frowning face on the decaying head of a decapitated minuteman who likely after defecting to the British, got shot in the forehead by Pat Patriot, leaving a star-shaped hole behind.

I don't care what you think it represents, you're not putting that ugly thing on my team's helmets and making us wear enemy colors.

Rod Rust says hello.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 7, 2020

Patsfanin Philly said:
Steelers pre-70, Bengals, Cardinals,Browns, Lions,yes.... but any other team???? Please do because I think that 9 year stretch has to be among top 20 worst stretches in NFL history....

So the longest nonwinning stretch in team history is a "laughingstock" and "embarrassment".

OK, if that's true, then

How are the teams with worse records in that seven year stretch described?

"...worse than laughingstock..."?

And, the Giants/Steelers/Packers/49ers/Cowboys/Raiders teams with multiple stretches of worse futility stretching across decades?

"...worse than embarrassment..."?

The point is that none of them ever was described as such, even though it would be true.

Technically, the injury-riddled seasons of 1974 and 1975 are 'non-winning', but do not make the cut for 'laughingstock' or 'embarrassment'.

Thus, I present seven-year percentages for these teams:

203Pat · Jul 7, 2020

What a strange thread.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 7, 2020

CT

Patsfanin Philly said:
Steelers pre-70, Bengals, Cardinals,Browns, Lions,yes.... but any other team???? Please do because I think that 9 year stretch has to be among top 20 worst stretches in NFL history....

Here we go:

Pats from 1967-1975: 37-88-1/ PCT: .297

In addition to the teams you correctly mention above,

SF: .......1973-79/ 33-69 ......../ PCT: .323 / 7 years
ATL: ....1966-76/ 50-100-4 ../ PCT: .338 / 11 years
.............1984-90/ 31-79-1 ...../ PCT: .284 / 7 years
OAK: ...2006-14/ 43-102 ...../ PCT: .296 / 9 years*
NYJ: ....1970-77/ 37-75 ........./ PCT: .330 / 8 years
.............1989-96/ 40-88 ......./ PCT: .312 / 8 years
.............2012-19/ 49-79 ......../ PCT: .383 / 8 years
NYG: ...1964-83/ 100-180-5 / PCT: .359 / 20 years
BUF: ....1967-72/ 17-64-3 ..../ PCT: .220 / 6 years
..............1982-87/ 27-61 ......./ PCT: .307 / 6 years
..............2005-13/ 54-90 ....../ PCT: .375 / 9 years
GB: ......1948-58/ 37-93-2 ..../ PCT: .288 / 11 years*
.............1968-91/ 146-201-9../ PCT: .423 / 24 years
TB: ......1976-87/ 52-127-1 ..../ PCT: .291 / 12 years*
NO: .....1967-75/ 32-89-5 ...../ PCT: .274 / 9 years*
.............1976-84/ 46-87 ......../ PCT: .346 / 9 years
CHI: ......1969-75/ 28-69-1 .../ PCT: .291 / 7 years
WAS: ....1959-65/ 25-64-5 .../ PCT: .292 / 7 years
IND: .....1991-98/ 46-82 ....../ PCT: .359 / 8 years
DEN: ....1960-68/ 34-89-3 ../ PCT: .281 / 9 years*
JAC: .....2008-16/ 42-102 ..../ PCT: .292 / 9 years*
TEN: ....1965-73/ 38-83-5 .../ PCT: .321 / 9 years
RAMS: .1959-65/ 25-65-4 .../ PCT: .287 / 7 years
.............1990-98/ 45-99 ....../ PCT: .312 / 9 years
.............2007-16/ 46-113-1 ../ PCT: .290 / 10 years*
PHI: ....1934-42/ 20-77-3 .../ PCT: .215 / 9 years*
.............1962-72/ 48-98-8 ../ PCT: .338 / 11 years

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 7, 2020

203Pat said:
What a strange thread.

goheels22002 · Jul 8, 2020

This is a strange thread.

It brings back memories of sitting on aluminum benches in Schaefer Stadium with brutal wind-chill temperatures in 1981 while the 2-14 Patriots lost squeaker after squeaker. You could get tickets in November and December by making eye contact with anybody in Eddy Andelman's parking lot by the old Bay State Raceway. They'd beg you to take their tickets so they could have another warm body with a flask of Old Military in the same row to huddle with against the wind.

The Patriots would inevitably hang around or get a small lead late in the third quarter and then lose in grim fashion with a turnover, dumb play call or missed field goal. It was like they were keeping us there to freeze us to death.

That was actually a lovable team coached by Ron Ehrhardt, who is underappreciated. Several guys from that year are in the Patriots HOF.

There was no concourse to speak of at Schaefer Stadium. and like four restrooms for 60,000 fans. You were kept in by chain link fences that mercifully were available for the men to take a leak through while shielded by the guys they'd been drinking with all morning. That was the height of friendship.

The field was a bright green AstroTurf carpet on top of concrete. If there was any precipitation, the field would freeze over and a hockey game would break out.

The Inferno was a great piece of literature, but old Dante Aligieri screwed up when he stopped at ten rings of Hell. He should have added Schaefer Stadium as ring #11.

FreeTedWilliams · Jul 8, 2020

Everything above is soo true!!!

If your ass never had the pleasure of sitting on those benches in the freezing cold, you should count yourself as lucky!

One game, my buddy and I had only one seat cushion and one set of gloves (and of course, one flask of whiskey) to share between the two of us! It was an expeirment in human endurance, do you sacrfice your hands or your ass to the cold.

I played on that turf too, you might as well have played in the parking lot, no difference!

Patsfanin Philly · Jul 8, 2020

Actual Pats Fan said:
CT
Here we go:

Pats from 1967-1975: 37-88-1/ PCT: .296

In addition to the teams you correctly mention above,

SF: .......1973-79/ 33-69 ......../ PCT: .323
ATL: ....1966-72/ 30-64-4 ..../ PCT: .326
.............1984-90/ 31-79-1 ...../ PCT: .284
OAK: ...2003-09/ 29-83 ......./ PCT: .260
NYJ: ....1970-77/ 37-75 ........./ PCT: .330
.............1989-96/ 40-88 ......./ PCT: .312
.............2012-19/ 49-79 ......../ PCT: .383
NYG: ...1964-83/ 100-180-5 / PCT: .359
BUF: ....XX
IND: ....XX
SD: ......XX
SEA: ....XX
NO: .....XX

...will update later...

And you supported my point.
You wrote:

Actual Pats Fan said:
And I can provide you with nine-year stretches of futility as bad or worse than that for any other team in football.

yet you have provided NO other team that was worse over a nine year stretch, let alone any other team. I gave you 5 or 6 teams that were worse (Browns,Lions, Bengals, pre-70 Steelers etc) and my point stands that for those 9 years ( bookended by a good year on either end) the Patriots stunk badly and there are few teams that can match their 9 year run....and it was probably one of the 20 worst nine year urns in NFL history

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Jul 8, 2020

Mental health certain seems to be a concern, as this pandemic goes on and on. Witness this thread...

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 8, 2020

goheels22002 said:
It brings back memories of sitting on aluminum benches in Schaefer Stadium with brutal wind-chill temperatures in 1981 while the 2-14 Patriots lost squeaker after squeaker.

Yes, this was the one losing season the Patriots had in thirteen years. The media milked all they could from it, because for them that 1981 season is how they eternally view the franchise and the other 12 years are irrelevant. They have successfully fooled most people into mostly ignoring, but at least dismissing, all the rest of the winning. The only team we did not beat in that span was Dallas.

goheels22002 said:
The field was a bright green AstroTurf carpet on top of concrete. If there was any precipitation, the field would freeze over and a hockey game would break out.

Like Three Rivers, Riverfront and a slew of others across the country that era.

goheels22002 said:
He should have added Schaefer Stadium as ring #11.

And if I was offered luxury box suites to see the Giants, Jets, Redskins or whoever I wouldn't have been interested.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 8, 2020

Patsfanin Philly said:
Browns,Lions, Bengals, pre-70 Steelers, Cardinals

Patsfanin Philly said:
yet you have provided NO other team that was worse over a nine year stretch

OK so I asterisked eight teams with worse stretches of 9 years or longer (so far): Raiders, Packers, Bucs, Saints, Broncos, Jags, Rams, Eagles, to go along with your five.

Will continue research when time permits, but the point is that this is some really crappy football by all these teams, and if they aren't quite below .300 or a year or two shorter, they still stink.

We'll see if you're correct about the top twenty, but it still doesn't make the Pats worse than anybody else.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 8, 2020

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
Mental health certain seems to be a concern, as this pandemic goes on and on. Witness this thread...

Oh my case has nothing to do with COVID 19.

I hope reading my posts makes everybody feel better about themselves.

jah · Jul 8, 2020

That's respect

IcyPatriot · Jul 8, 2020

203Pat said:
What a strange thread.

goheels22002 · Jul 9, 2020

Actual Pats Fan said:
Yes, this was the one losing season the Patriots had in thirteen years. The media milked all they could from it, because for them that 1981 season is how they eternally view the franchise and the other 12 years are irrelevant. They have successfully fooled most people into mostly ignoring, but at least dismissing, all the rest of the winning. The only team we did not beat in that span was Dallas.

Like Three Rivers, Riverfront and a slew of others across the country that era.

And if I was offered luxury box suites to see the Giants, Jets, Redskins or whoever I wouldn't have been interested.

Let's not try to re-write Patriots history. 1981 was not "the one losing season in thirteen years" no matter which direction you go.

First off there were loads of mediocre (8-8 8-7, or 9-7) seasons all around the 81 team ( 79, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88). Granted, Chuck Fairbanks had a short run of success (76-78) and Raymond Berry had the 85-86 years.

Patriots losing seasons 67, 68,69,70, 71, 72, 73, 75 - this was not a successful franchise. This is not a creation of the media. They got better for a few years and then sunk into the worst five year period - 89 t0 93 were big-time losing seasons - all of which fit into your 13 years claim.

The Patriots have a rich history, but in the Super Bowl era there was a lot of mediocrity and some just horribly brutal years. It's really not until 1994 under Parcells that you see a consistent playoff team and contender.

Your last sentence is confusing: "The only team we did not beat in that span was Dallas." What span, precisely? Overall record? Head to head? Why do we care about the Cowboy anyway?

Steve102 · Jul 9, 2020

goheels22002 said:
Let's not try to re-write Patriots history. 1981 was not "the one losing season in thirteen years" no matter which direction you go.

First off there were loads of mediocre (8-8 8-7, or 9-7) seasons all around the 81 team ( 79, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88). Granted, Chuck Fairbanks had a short run of success (76-78) and Raymond Berry had the 85-86 years.

Patriots losing seasons 67, 68,69,70, 71, 72, 73, 75 - this was not a successful franchise. This is not a creation of the media. They got better for a few years and then sunk into the worst five year period - 89 t0 93 were big-time losing seasons - all of which fit into your 13 years claim.

The Patriots have a rich history, but in the Super Bowl era there was a lot of mediocrity and some just horribly brutal years. It's really not until 1994 under Parcells that you see a consistent playoff team and contender.

Your last sentence is confusing: "The only team we did not beat in that span was Dallas." What span, precisely? Overall record? Head to head? Why do we care about the Cowboy anyway?

Excellent points all the way around. The thread is an attempt to re-write history. A lot of that going on these days. I think is safe to say that prior to the Parcells Era, it's spotty at best. When it was bad, it was horrible. To the OPers point tho, this franchise was not at the Lion/Bengals/Jete level, but there were some dark times to be sure.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 9, 2020

goheels22002 said:
Let's not try to re-write Patriots history. 1981 was not "the one losing season in thirteen years" no matter which direction you go.

1976: 11-3
1977: 9-5
1978: 11-5
1979: 9-7
1980: 10-6
1981: 2-14
1982: 5-4
1983: 8-8
1984: 9-7
1985: 11-5
1986: 11-5
1987: 8-7
1988: 9-7

goheels22002 said:
The Patriots have a rich history, but in the Super Bowl era there was a lot of mediocrity and some just horribly brutal years.

As with every other team.

goheels22002 said:
Let's not try to re-write Patriots history.

Steve:Section 102 said:
Excellent points all the way around. The thread is an attempt to re-write history.

There is no metric to justify the belief and propaganda that the Patriots were somehow worse than most other franchises.

Steve:Section 102 said:
I think is safe to say that prior to the Parcells Era, it's spotty at best.

goheels22002 said:
It's really not until 1994 under Parcells that you see a consistent playoff team and contender.

Parcells' record is inferior to Holovak, Berry, Meyer and Fairbanks, so to support your assertions we will consider the Carroll years an extension of it:

Wrong. The expanded postseason format allowed teams with records identical to what they were in the 70's and 80's into the playoffs as a wild card.

Patsfanin Philly · Jul 9, 2020

Actual Pats Fan said:
CT
Here we go:

Pats from 1967-1975: 37-88-1/ PCT: .296

In addition to the teams you correctly mention above,

SF: .......1973-79/ 33-69 ......../ PCT: .323 / 7 years
ATL: ....1966-76/ 50-100-4 ..../ PCT: .338 / 11 years
.............1984-90/ 31-79-1 ...../ PCT: .284 / 7 years
OAK: ...2003-09/ 35-99 ......./ PCT: .261 / 9 years*
NYJ: ....1970-77/ 37-75 ........./ PCT: .330 / 8 years
.............1989-96/ 40-88 ......./ PCT: .312 / 8 years
.............2012-19/ 49-79 ......../ PCT: .383 / 8 years
NYG: ...1964-83/ 100-180-5 / PCT: .359 / 20 years
BUF: ....1967-72/ 17-64-3 ..../ PCT: .220 / 6 years
..............1982-87/ 27-61 ......./ PCT: .307 / 6 years
..............2005-13/ 54-90 ....../ PCT: .375 / 9 years
GB: ......1948-58/ 37-93-2 ..../ PCT: .288 / 11 years*
.............1968-91/ 146-201-9../ PCT: .423 / 24 years
TB: ......1976-87/ 52-127-1 ..../ PCT: .291 / 12 years*
NO: .....1967-75/ 32-89-5 ...../ PCT: .274 / 9 years*
.............1976-84/ 46-87 ......../ PCT: .346 / 9 years
CHI: ......1969-75/ 28-69-1 .../ PCT: .291 / 7 years
WAS: ....1959-65/ 25-64-5 .../ PCT: .292 / 7 years
IND: .....1991-98/ 46-82 ....../ PCT: .359 / 8 years
DEN: ....1960-68/ 34-89-3 ../ PCT: .281 / 9 years*
JAC: .....2008-16/ 42-102 ..../ PCT: .292 / 9 years*
TEN: ....1965-73/ 38-83-5 .../ PCT: .321 / 9 years
RAMS: .1959-65/ 25-65-4 .../ PCT: .287 / 7 years
.............1990-98/ 45-99 ....../ PCT: .312 / 9 years
.............2007-16/ 46-113-1 ../ PCT: .290 / 10 years*
SD
SEA

...will update later...

For the record, the Raiders 03-09 is seven years, not nine.
This started when you wrote,

And I can provide you with nine-year stretches of futility as bad or worse than that for any other team in football.

and you found 6 teams to go with my five teams, barely a third of the league, hardly "any other team". That buttresses my contention that the nine year Patriots run was one of the worst in league history and yes, they sucked during that time period.. It shouldn't be up for debate, and they sucked to a degree not commonly seen and likely one of the 20 worst in league history.....

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 9, 2020

Patsfanin Philly said:
For the record, the Raiders 03-09 is seven years, not nine.

Fixed, thanks.

Actual Pats Fan · Jul 11, 2020

Patsfanin Philly said:
my point stands that for those 9 years ( bookended by a good year on either end) the Patriots stunk badly and there are few teams that can match their 9 year run....and it was probably one of the 20 worst nine year urns in NFL history

You got it right. The Pats' run looks like it ranks 15th worst, all time:

1. Cardinals ........... 1937-45/ 17-75-4 / ....... PCT: .198 / 9 years
2. Eagles ................ 1934-42/ 20-77-3 / ...... PCT: .215 / 9 years
3. Lions .................. 2001-09/ 33-111-0 / .... PCT: .229 / 9 years
4. Dayton Triangles 1921-29/ 13-49-6 / ...... PCT: .235 / 9 years
5. Browns ............... 2009-17/ 34-110-0 / .... PCT: .236 / 9 years
6. Steelers .............. 1933-41/ 25-71-6 / ........ PCT: .274 / 9 years
7. Saints ................. 1967-75/ 32-89-5 / ........ PCT: .274 / 9 years
8. Broncos ............. 1960-68/ 34-89-3 / ....... PCT: .281 / 9 years
9. Packers .............. 1948-58/ 37-93-2 / ....... PCT: .288 / 11 years
10. Rams ................ 2007-16/ 46-113-1 / ....... PCT: .290 / 10 years
11. Buccaneers ....... 1976-87/ 52-127-1 / ........ PCT: .291 / 12 years
12. Jaguars ............. 2008-16/ 42-102 / ......... PCT: .292 / 9 years
13. Bengals ............. 1991-2000/ 47-113-0 / ... PCT: 294 / 10 years
14. Raiders ............. 2006-14/ 43-102 / .......... PCT: .296 / 9 years
15. Patriots ............. 1967-75/ 37-88-1 /.......... PCT: .297 / 9 years

I must say, I didn't expect to be so excited about the Dayton Triangles.

OK, full disclosure I never heard of them before. Anyway, it's mere fractions of a percentage point that put teams like the Jets barely ahead of us, more than once.

goheels22002 said:
Let's not try to re-write Patriots history.

The point is this: We just got more draft picks stolen, and fined over a million dollars (again) for something trivial which occurred outside of team operations, in the promotions department.

The previous fake scandal consisted of us doing nothing while the league perpetrated a conspiracy, and suspended an innocent star.

And, the first one had some of our people again doing nothing wrong, only from an unauthorized location, in the first half of the first game of a season; while our opponent had done the same thing previously with no discipline.

I estimate that 95% of people in the United States believe the Patriots cheated in some way, more than once.

All falsehoods propagated about the Patriots must loudly be debunked. Yes, the team was poor for seven or nine seasons. That is nothing compared to the quarter century of futility coughed up by the Steelers, Packers, Raiders and Cowboys, among others.

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