GOAT QB discussions must include Johnny U.

robertweathers said:

Young in his prime was incredible.

If I needed to win one game, in their prime I'd take Young over Favre

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I've always considered Young the best QB of the 90's. I know a lot of Favre fans, so when I say that they usually get pretty heated

Pat the Pats Fan said:

Unitas perfected the 2 minute drive. Up until a few years ago he had the stat for most consecutive games with a TD pass, broken by Brees. That was in a time when teams ran first, and when defenses were much tougher on receivers and QBs.

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Johnny U called the plays and got the crap beat out of him on a regular basis in an era when a clothesline was a clean hit. I said GOAT discussion because you can't compare eras with different rules, and improved training and athleticism.

1960Pats said:

Favre helped cost the Pats the 19-0 season when he threw one of his really dumb picks vs the Giants in the NFC title game. No way the Packers would have beaten that Pats team.

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You have to actually win the game to be 19-0. They are still 18-1.

Bonzo said:

There is no GOAT discussion.

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Exactly! Cam Newton.

sb1 said:

I believe Brady is GOAT but there will never be consensus on this and debates will always happen. Different eras of the game.

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At this point, I would say there is consensus. Every mention of Brady I hear in the media includes the phrase GOAT.

There will always be a few dissenters. Some old people prefer Elvis to the Beatles. Some kids think LeBron is greater than Jordan. We politely engage them in conversation, but we know they're wrong.

stinkypete said:

At this point, I would say there is consensus. Every mention of Brady I hear in the media includes the phrase GOAT.

There will always be a few dissenters. Some old people prefer Elvis to the Beatles. Some kids think LeBron is greater than Jordan. We politely engage them in conversation, but we know they're wrong.

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100% this. Type it “greatest qb of all time” into Google, and you literally cannot find a list made my a reputable writer/reporter that doesn’t have Brady #1. It’s as close to unanimous as it gets in sports. Moreso than Jordan, Pele, Gretzky, Ruth, Ali, etc.

If you want to go on Steelers message boards or look at opinions from Tennessee Volunteers Alumni Newsletter, you know what you’re getting.

People who argue against Brady = GOAT are worthy of a smirk but not your time, unless they have a really unique take. I honestly think Otto Graham has a strong argument for GOAT.

Bleedthrough said:

I've always considered Young the best QB of the 90's. I know a lot of Favre fans, so when I say that they usually get pretty heated

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I agree. Young was the best QB of the 90s.

Young is what I consider to be the prototype QB of his generation. He is a guy who was always called “the perfect quarterback” in terms of physical ability and corresponding passer rating/efficiency stats. He took that crown from Marino and passed it onto Rodgers. It’s a cool honor but tends to have the “shiny object syndrome” where once a better guy comes along you are quickly old news.

But I don’t understand the argument that Favre > Young. All Favre has in that argument is counting stats. Young was significantly better.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

This is career opponent-adjusted AY/A value from @jumosq btw.

Mahomes and Wilson could make gains very soon.

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I think that Wilson already belongs in the top ten. He's accomplished more in half of a career than some on the popular lists have in all of their's.

A few years ago, before Brady ended the debate for good, I saw 4 top 10 lists of the most clutch QB's of all-time.

Brady, Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr & Unitas made all four lists.
Graham, Staubach, Stabler & Young made three of the lists.
Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath & Manning made one list each.

I was lucky enough to have seen all of them except Graham but his record was outstanding.

I believe that Unitas suffers from a milder case of what hurts the GOAT NBA player, too many people doing the judging never saw him play.

I really marveled at how quick Marino got rid of the ball and have to lay some of the blame for his lack of a ring on coaching. The problem was the same for him as it is for many great QB's not named Brady. They think they can put the ball anywhere at any time and can come up with a bad TO.

Stabler would be a good addition to any top ten.

I'm not a big fan of Elway's but he did get a couple of rings. I just wouldn't put him that high on the list.

1960Pats said:

I think that Wilson already belongs in the top ten. He's accomplished more in half of a career than some on the popular lists have in all of their's.

A few years ago, before Brady ended the debate for good, I saw 4 top 10 lists of the most clutch QB's of all-time.

Brady, Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr & Unitas made all four lists.
Graham, Staubach, Stabler & Young made three of the lists.
Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath & Manning made one list each.

I was lucky enough to have seen all of them except Graham but his record was outstanding.

I believe that Unitas suffers from a milder case of what hurts the GOAT NBA player, too many people doing the judging never saw him play.

I really marveled at how quick Marino got rid of the ball and have to lay some of the blame for his lack of a ring on coaching. The problem was the same for him as it is for many great QB's not named Brady. They think they can put the ball anywhere at any time and can come up with a bad TO.

Stabler would be a good addition to any top ten.

I'm not a big fan of Elway's but he did get a couple of rings. I just wouldn't put him that high on the list.

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Don't think I would have Wilson top 10 yet, but I do think he will be there by the end of his career. Never understood why he is so underrated by most people.

I don't think I'd have Favre on my top 15 list and maybe top 20 if I thought about it.

JMO, but I think posters have Elway underrated a bit. He belongs on the bottom half of any top 10 list. Who was the best receiver he ever had?

Family said:

I don't think I'd have Favre on my top 15 list and maybe top 20 if I thought about it.

JMO, but I think posters have Elway underrated a bit. He belongs on the bottom half of any top 10 list. Who was the best receiver he ever had?

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Rod Smith went from UDFA to HOF worthy. Best WR from that team and it's not close. He was great, borderline great. Definitely one of the more underrated players ever.

McCaffrey was a route running machine. I've watched practices videos of him and learned so much from the position from his technique and discipline.

Probably a 120 TDs between them.

What about Shannon Sharpe? He was considered top tier-GOAT discussion for his position when he retired.

Davis was as talented as it got from that position.

Elway was a good - very good QB but top ten of all-time is too much when you consider he wasn't even a top 5 QB in his era during his prime. You'd take Elway over in no order Young, Favre, Moon, Marino, Aikman, Kelly or even old Montana or Rypien?

Elway rides on this narrative he was a gunslinger, everyman QB but stack up his #'s and they really aren't great. Again Jeff George was comparable to Elways prime years. He rides on his win/loss record (not a QB stat lol) and his fairytale finish.

With all due respect posters here look at accomplishments and achievements more. Thinking it helps Brady when in reality it doesn't.

What matters the most is how good that QB played the position.

p8ryts said:

You have to actually win the game to be 19-0. They are still 18-1.

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If I said that Favre could have cost the Pats a 19-0 season with his INT in the NFC game, would that be acceptable?

All I know is, at the time, I wasn't too thrilled with Favre's pick. I didn't want to see NY again after the game they gave the Pats at the end of the season.

1960Pats said:

I think that Wilson already belongs in the top ten. He's accomplished more in half of a career than some on the popular lists have in all of their's.

A few years ago, before Brady ended the debate for good, I saw 4 top 10 lists of the most clutch QB's of all-time.

Brady, Elway, Marino, Montana, Starr & Unitas made all four lists.
Graham, Staubach, Stabler & Young made three of the lists.
Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath & Manning made one list each.

I was lucky enough to have seen all of them except Graham but his record was outstanding.

I believe that Unitas suffers from a milder case of what hurts the GOAT NBA player, too many people doing the judging never saw him play.

I really marveled at how quick Marino got rid of the ball and have to lay some of the blame for his lack of a ring on coaching. The problem was the same for him as it is for many great QB's not named Brady. They think they can put the ball anywhere at any time and can come up with a bad TO.

Stabler would be a good addition to any top ten.

I'm not a big fan of Elway's but he did get a couple of rings. I just wouldn't put him that high on the list.

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Yea I think Wilson has been tremendous.

I was going to bring up coaching, front office, other units around the QB (defense & ST) that play a huge role in a QBS career. Along with landing spot & opportunity they all matter a great deal.

Bill & Tom were just lightening in a bottle at the right time. Tom wasn't a blue chip-lottery pick with ego and expectations. It was Bills way or the highway most of his career. Tom managed to not only grow but flourish with one of the toughest coaches in the history of the sport.

That might not have worked with certain players but deep down most of these love to be coached. Marino, Manning ... They needed and wanted that alpha, that general and when they didn't get it they tried to win the game with every pass. Both are very similar in that regard after studying them both. They crave a strong leader but will fill the vacuum if there isn't one. Moss was the same as well in that respect.

So much goes into the final result.

Brady was a master at playing the position and playing the defense in front of him.

robertweathers said:

If I needed to win one game, in their prime I'd take Young over Favre

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I would take a lot of QBs over Favre, so...

I'm interested to hear from Elway fans ... Guy wasn't top 5 or barely borderline top 5 during his prime.

How does he land on your top 10 list? I have a hard time placing him top 10 just from 80's, 90's & 2000's. Never mind all-time.

Bleedthrough said:

Don't think I would have Wilson top 10 yet, but I do think he will be there by the end of his career. Never understood why he is so underrated by most people.

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He is one of the top QBs in the NFC right now, and might become the top QB, ahead of Ryan/Stafford, when Brees/Rogers retire/meet the cliff...how is that being under-rated?

BaconGrundleCandy said:

I'm interested to hear from Elway fans ... Guy wasn't top 5 or barely borderline top 5 during his prime.

How does he land on your top 10 list? I have a hard time placing him top 10 just from 80's, 90's & 2000's. Never mind all-time.

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He led the Broncos to five Super Bowl appearances. Perennial pro bowler, 1987 MVP. I thought he was overrated because he was never that accurate, but that overrated opinion was in contrast to GOAT being thrown around the in the late 90s. I won’t die on a hill, though, for Elway.

As I wrote earlier, you have about six guys with equal strength arguments to be 8-10 on the top 10 list. Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Young, Rodgers, Brees, and maybe Favre. Within that group there is a heck of a lot of variation and polarizing views where they rank. Each of them has a fairly big negative as to why he shouldn’t be top 10.

1960Pats said:

Favre helped cost the Pats the 19-0 season when he threw one of his really dumb picks vs the Giants in the NFC title game. No way the Packers would have beaten that Pats team.

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He’s on my sh!t list for 2008 season. Threw 3 picks against dolphins in week 17 for a jest loss at home. Giving the phins the east title.

Pat the Pats Fan said:

He’s on my sh!t list for 2008 season. Threw 3 picks against dolphins in week 17 for a jest loss at home. Giving the phins the east title.

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Not to mention that he beat the Pats at Gillette on Troy Brown night, of all times. I was there for that one.

Happy 4th of July.

I know some stats are going to be thrown out there but how did Rodgers crack some of these top 10 lists?