Cam if Season Cancelled

Hopefully it would "count" as a season. We might lose Cam Chowder (who I am excited about) but we would flip from our cap challenged year into a year with a ton of cap space.

Of course, I'm hoping for a good, full, cap challenged season.

amfootball said:

I would be overjoyed to never see Cam in a Pats jersey.

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"I dunno...It'd probably be more comfortable than this suit..."

It’s not about money. It’s about not going to ohio for which I will take millions less

If the season is cancelled, does it make sense to stick with Cam when there is a lot of quarterback talent in the 2021 draft.

XLIX said:

The players will be wise to work out a compromise instead of taking a hard line. There may be some sort of base salary distributed, but I just don't see serious cash given to the players if there are no games.

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And this is just about putting 35% of the money in escrow with the amount being paid out to the players at some point down the line. Now imagine thinking the NFLPA wouldn't fight the league if they tried to not pay or substantially adjust payment in case the season gets cancelled.

The NFLPA will definitely take a hardline and that is the right approach. They obviously are absolutely fine with borrowing against the future and a flat cap instead of reducing anyones guarantees.

Maybe it means nothing if Cam is released before September after not being able to beat out Stidham.

While I’m hoping this plan works out, I’m far less excited about Cam’s potential than most posters. Suggesting the first third of 2018 is the reason I should get excited is not that reassuring.

farn said:

Suggesting the first third of 2018 is the reason I should get excited is not that reassuring.

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He was playing at a MVP level. What is it exactly that felt off to you ?

luuked said:

He was playing at a MVP level. What is it exactly that felt off to you ?

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That it was 1.5 years ago : a lifetime in NFL standards. And, will he be able to recapture ?

Brady dominating after a major injury in his 30s was incredible. I’m not sure it’s every player’s destiny to follow his unique path.

farn said:

Maybe it means nothing if Cam is released before September after not being able to beat out Stidham.

While I’m hoping this plan works out, I’m far less excited about Cam’s potential than most posters. Suggesting the first third of 2018 is the reason I should get excited is not that reassuring.

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If cam is healthy he will beat out stidham even if stidham performs well. I think bill might want to go with experience this season if the season plays out.

farn said:

That it was 1.5 years ago : a lifetime in NFL standards. And, will he be able to recapture ?

Brady dominating after a major injury in his 30s was incredible. I’m not sure it’s every player’s destiny to follow his unique path.

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are you suggesting Brady is in better physical shape then Specimen Cam?

ChrisR2223 said:

are you suggesting Brady is in better physical shape then Specimen Cam?

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I’m only suggesting that what Brady did from 2009-2019 is rare and exceptional. It would be foolish to assume that it is the norm.

Specimen Cam takes too many hits. And I’m not convinced that being « ripped » is the determining factor in NFL longevity.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

If cam is healthy he will beat out stidham even if stidham performs well. I think bill might want to go with experience this season if the season plays out.

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We disagree. I think BB decided, after the Brady - Bledsoe that he’s going to go with the player that gives him the best chance to win, regardless of contract and tenure. It has served him (and fans) well for two decades.

farn said:

We disagree. I think BB decided, after the Brady - Bledsoe that he’s going to go with the player that gives him the best chance to win, regardless of contract and tenure. It has served him (and fans) well for two decades.

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Well you tell me who gives them a best chance to win. A healthy cam or stidham?

luuked said:

And this is just about putting 35% of the money in escrow with the amount being paid out to the players at some point down the line. Now imagine thinking the NFLPA wouldn't fight the league if they tried to not pay or substantially adjust payment in case the season gets cancelled.

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Let's assume the season gets cancelled (which I don't think it will , but speaking hypothetically) and each side takes a 100% hardline stance and the players refuse to surrender a single penny. There's 2 problems:

1) They might not get their 2020 money anyway. If the teams don't pay the players, and the players sue, there's no guarantee they would win.

2) Honest question: If everyone is taking a hardline stance, what the heck happens to the 2021 salary cap if 2020 is cancelled? What is it going to be? A couple million dollars per team?

luuked said:

The NFLPA will definitely take a hardline and that is the right approach. They obviously are absolutely fine with borrowing against the future and a flat cap instead of reducing anyones guarantees.

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Everyone always takes a "hardline" stance in labor negotiations right up until the moment they compromise. If I were the Players, I wouldn't give up a single penny without getting something in return, but that doesn't mean it won't be worth their while to make a deal of some sort.

There's talk of a $30 million to $80 million drop in the salary cap next year under the current formulas if 2020 is played without fans. I can't even imagine the drop if there's no season at all.

farn said:

That it was 1.5 years ago : a lifetime in NFL standards. And, will he be able to recapture ?

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You are right about all of that. I misunderstood your previous reply. I thought you were underwhelmed with his 2018 campaign and was curious what it was. But this angle makes a lot of sense.

XLIX said:

1) They might not get their 2020 money anyway. If the teams don't pay the players, and the players sue, there's no guarantee they would win.

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Unless the NFL folds entirely it is pretty clear that the players would win any litigation in accordance to the language in their contracts. Signing bonus installments must be paid out similarly roster bonuses and whatnot as well. Situations like this are exactly what contracts are for.

Now, guaranteed base salary might be a different story because it is paid per game week. Maybe there is enough wiggle room in the language to have it prorated to the actual amount of weeks played. No idea but that's certainly possible.

XLIX said:

2) Honest question: If everyone is taking a hardline stance, what the heck happens to the 2021 salary cap if 2020 is cancelled? What is it going to be? A couple million dollars per team?

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Teams will borrow a nice chunk of money from the next 5-7 league years. Unless the status quo goes on for another 2 years this shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it would mean pretty flat caps over that period but one cancelled year wouldn't be an absolute disaster.

XLIX said:

There's talk of a $30 million to $80 million drop in the salary cap next year under the current formulas if 2020 is played without fans. I can't even imagine the drop if there's no season at all.

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Again. They will be allowed to borrow from future caps to bridge that year. So I don't think next year will have a crazy drop in cap. Maybe 15-20m which would be by design.

I think it is helpful to not think of each year individually but use all the years this CBA is still running as a way to mitigate this year's losses.

Lets keep in mind that even though revenue numbers go into the billions the adjusted cap per team is somewhere around 200m. This shouldn't be a particularly crazy amount of money for most owners to bridge.

luuked said:

Unless the NFL folds entirely it is pretty clear that the players would win any litigation in accordance to the language in their contracts. Signing bonus installments must be paid out similarly roster bonuses and whatnot as well. Situations like this are exactly what contracts are for.

Now, guaranteed base salary might be a different story because it is paid per game week. Maybe there is enough wiggle room in the language to have it prorated to the actual amount of weeks played. No idea but that's certainly possible.

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Well, yes, I meant actual salaries and not bonuses.

luuked said:

Teams will borrow a nice chunk of money from the next 5-7 league years. Unless the status quo goes on for another 2 years this shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it would mean pretty flat caps over that period but one cancelled year wouldn't be an absolute disaster.

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But wait a second. We're assuming in our little discussion that each side is taking a hardline stance. You said "The NFLPA will definitely take a hardline and that is the right approach." My response is that if the players take a hardline stance, then so will the owners. There's no mechanism in place to mandate (or even allow for) borrowing against future years so if the owners are taking a hardline stance in 2021, well... that would be where the players get screwed if they take a hardline stance today.

I believe borrowing against future years is going to happen if the cap takes a huge hit, but that is going to take a degree of compromise from both sides. Hence starting the give-and-take negotiations right away.

The season won't be cancelled. There's waaaay too much money on the line.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

If cam is healthy he will beat out stidham even if stidham performs well. I think bill might want to go with experience this season if the season plays out.

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At a presser yesterday (pictured below), Bill had "no comment" about who he thinks will start...

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

Well you tell me who gives them a best chance to win. A healthy cam or stidham?

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I assume you want me to say « a healthy Cam ». I’m open to either being the best option as I have no idea what either brings at this point...

Clearly - I HOPE Cam is Cam and leads this team with his athletics and pizzazz. But if he is just so so; I’d rather go w Stidham and if he’s not the guy - we move on next season.