Kraft case being heard this week.

XLIX said:

That's right. And yet, for some reason known but to him and God, he is spending millions of dollars to fight it.

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And you think the hee-haw state of Florida is spending the same amount of money and resources punishing the other names on the list?

XLIX said:

I agree. And yet Kraft is spending millions to get out of that small fine/community service.

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Probably because he should. If you were charged with a crime where the police violated the law, I’d hope you’d do the same thing.

The police need to be put in their place on this one

PatriotsReign said:

Probably because he should. If you were charged with a crime where the police violated the law, I’d hope you’d do the same thing.

The police need to be put in their place on this one

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If I actually did the crime and the punishment was miniscule, I don't know if I'd fight it. I don't consider what he did a big deal but even if he wins the appeal, it isn't like the country is going to breathe a collective sigh of relief at the release of an innocent man. I honestly don't know if there remains anyone out there suggesting he didn't do it.

203Pat said:

And you think the hee-haw state of Florida is spending the same amount of money and resources punishing the other names on the list?

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I am not sure I understand precisely what you are asking. I haven't followed the goings-on from the other names on the list, so I don't know how many (if any) took that state's offer to admit they would "likely be found guilty" in court and took the original plea.

XLIX said:

I am not sure I understand precisely what you are asking. I haven't followed the goings-on from the other names on the list, so I don't know how many (if any) took that state's offer to admit they would "likely be found guilty" in court and took the original plea.

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Oh okay so you're just going to be obtuse. Carry on.

TheRainMaker said:

What does @Give Kraft A Hand think about this?

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I'm hoping for a happy ending

Sounds like this is the next domino to fall for Kraft huh.

Have the losers at tmz released the tape of Kraft or the other billionaire getting their happy endings yet?

203Pat said:

Oh okay so you're just going to be obtuse. Carry on.

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I don't know WTF your problem is. I did the best I could to interpret your obscenely juvenile question and answer it.

Ochmed Jones said:

Have the losers at tmz released the tape of Kraft or the other billionaire getting their happy endings yet?

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If TMZ had it, it would have been released already.

Interesting that Kraft's lawyers are suppressing video evidence of him in the parlor. That doesn't mean he was never there. The very act of trying to stop the video says he WAS at the parlor.

Prosecutors charge alleged prostitute for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, as judge temporarily seals spa surveillance videos

DropKickFlutie said:

Interesting that Kraft's lawyers are suppressing video evidence of him in the parlor. That doesn't mean he was never there. The very act of trying to stop the video says he WAS at the parlor.

Prosecutors charge alleged prostitute for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, as judge temporarily seals spa surveillance videos

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Because without the videos the entire case falls apart. It doesn't matter if he was there. It's not illegal to go to a massage parlor. Without the videos they'll probably have to drop all cases, including the prostitutes, they banked it all on the videos. Even his stop, used to identify him would be thrown out (fruit of a poisoned tree).

Aside from the obvious reasons to fight this to maintain your legal reputation (regardless of actual guilt), there was another reason not to agree to SA deal. Florida was/is trying to pass tougher prostitution laws that would make guilty parties have to register in a roll kinda like a sexual predator registry just to embarass the crap out of you. This would've been retroactive to Kraft and the others. I'm sure the 20 or so idiots that agreed to the deal are kicking themselves.

203Pat said:

Oh okay so you're just going to be obtuse. Carry on.

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I don't care whether legally he gets off on a technicality if the videos aren't admissable. The dude was seen multiple times going to this parlor and almost all of us would say it was for happy endings. The longer this drags for him it won't help. He's already lost in the public perception. Also he's a total hypocrite given how he folded on the deflategate witch hunt.


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XLIX said:

If I actually did the crime and the punishment was miniscule, I don't know if I'd fight it. I don't consider what he did a big deal but even if he wins the appeal, it isn't like the country is going to breathe a collective sigh of relief at the release of an innocent man. I honestly don't know if there remains anyone out there suggesting he didn't do it.

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My last words on this....

In my opinion, the wrong-doing by police far outweigh the misdemeanor charges and need to be challenged so the police never do that again.

I commend Kraft for challenging them to the end

Jlaff said:

All of it still stands - without police, creepy old drunks can have their fill of human trafficking prostitutes.

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There’s probably more police brutality happening than that.

XLIX said:

If Kraft wins, this isn't the sweeping victory against police overreach some seem to think it would be. Kraft's legal team isn't arguing the validity of the primary basis for the search warrant itself, but rather that the police did not do enough to minimize damage done to normal customers. In other words, they can put cameras in suspected houses of prostitution, you just can't record 24/7. You have to shut off if no crime seems to be occurring.

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Well of course, this is an appellate court. You don't argue the meat of the case in an appellate court, that stuff is already documented from the original case and will be referred to in the arguments. It's settled fact, retreading that part of the case is ultimately seen as wasting a judge's time.

What you talk about in an appellate court is the broader implications of the case and its significance under Constitutional law. The party filing the appeal will try to find reasons that the case should be overturned and the party resisting the appeal will try to find reasons to uphold the case. This is why Brady lost his appeal, because despite the facts being on Brady's side, Goodell had the right under federal law to do what he did and upholding the case would violate his contractural rights.

The search warrant argument isn't valid for the appeals process because it's part of the meat of the case and already established as fact in the initial ruling. Neither side can dispute that part of the argument unless there's something fundamentally flawed about the findings. So of course that part of the argument doesn't come up at this time, it's part of the established facts of the case.

If you do want to dispute findings of fact in an appellate case you have to find a very roundabout way to do it, by citing procedural errors that led the court to the wrong conclusion and buidling an appeals case based on this. Bringing your own facts to an appellate hearing though is a quick path to getting your appeal thrown out. Not the time, not the place.

Anywho that's why Kraft's legal team is taking this tactic. They know their audience, and so they're bringing up broader, Constitutional objections to the way the case was prosecuted in order to point out that overturning the case would create a very bad precedent favoring the surveillance state.

So contrary to your post this would be a pretty big blow against the surveillance state if it was upheld, if only because it's another blow against government overreach in this area.

Triumph said:

Is there a Lawyer in the house?

Assuming Kraft comes out on top, what are the states options to continue? Can they appeal to a higher court? Conversely for Kraft. Florida wins, can he appeal to the next highest court in the land?

Seems like that were talking about a case that could go all the way to the Supreme Court. Innocent (not Bob) patrons civil rights were clearly violated.

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IANAL, but I nerd it up over Constitutional law sooo...

In a way you answered your own question. since Kraft's rights were violated he can take this as high as he chooses to, and it's an interesting enough precedent that the Supreme Court might even take it on. The question of the surveillance state is important enough that they might take an interest.

The thing about appellate law is that the court has to agree to hear the case, but again, this particular case has some pretty broad implications that the higher courts might choose to take an interest in in order to create precedent and speak to a larger issue, so this one might go the distance.

Something tells me Florida prosecutors aren't going to push it that far though, and risk creating a precedent that potentially restricts police powers. I think this case ends here, whatever this court decides.

Triumph said:

He broke the law.

Its the same old tune. Money talks and can buy anything. Especially the best Attorneys in the country.

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XLIX said:

Why do you say it's a trivial matter? They busted a couple dozen guys soliciting a prostitute. Why should they just let it go? The cost to handle this appeal is pennies when you look at what the state spends on the criminal justice system.
Bull. Court records are a matter of public record. There was no way this wasn't going to get sensationalized by the national media.

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Stupid argument. If they keep this on the DL a few writers might pick it up but nobody will care, basically the same way Jim Irsay's DUI was handled. Instead they made a national spectacle of the case, and we all get to watch it blow up in their faces.

I've known Florida DAs were idiots since the mishandling of the Zimmermann case, they lost Zimmermann by filing murder char this is just another brick in that particular wall. Florida DAs have a terrible habit of overcharging and overprosecuting.

This is exhibit A in why you don't elect DAs.

(for the record I consider Irsay's DUI way, WAY worse than a *)

PatriotsReign said:

My last words on this....

In my opinion, the wrong-doing by police far outweigh the misdemeanor charges and need to be challenged so the police never do that again.

I commend Kraft for challenging them to the end

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Your dad would be proud of you right now. Good boy.