Article on Patriots' Elite Man-Match Cover1 Defensive Scheme

TheRainMaker said:

He's an ILB.

Click to expand...

Almost every nfl and his old college website lists him as a DE/OLB ???

TheRainMaker said:

Hightower and Van Noy were on the outside.

Click to expand...

TheRainMaker said:

He's an ILB.

Click to expand...

Hightower seemed mostly (but not exclusively) the Inside guy, KVN the Outside guy, and Collins a little bit of both, especially during A-gap blitz calls, but more often than not was lined-up outside...

DropKickFlutie said:

Almost every nfl and his old college website lists him as a DE/OLB ???

Click to expand...

captain stone said:

Hightower seemed mostly (but not exclusively) the Inside guy, KVN the Outside guy, and Collins a little bit of both, especially during A-gap blitz calls, but more often than not was lined-up outside...

Click to expand...

I just looked at old depth charts and Collins was listed as the SLB. Weird. He just never seemed like a true OLB to me.

jimnance said:

I'm speechless. Is everyone in Iowa this dumb?

Click to expand...

Aren't they still counting votes from a caucus that was held months ago?

TheRainMaker said:

I just looked at old depth charts and Collins was listed as the SLB. Weird. He just never seemed like a true OLB to me.

Click to expand...

Remember that Collins started his college career as a Safety before he out-grew the position, then played DE before finishing at LB; so he was much more familiar with playing on the edges in space than he was taking on blocks in the trenches...

captain stone said:

Remember that Collins started his college career as a Safety before he out-grew the position, then played DE before finishing at LB; so he was much more familiar with playing on the edges in space than he was talking on blocks in the trenches...

Click to expand...

Yep. Collins was always around the edges and on the outside with the Pats.

.

captain stone said:

3rd and 19 says What?

Click to expand...

Right, besides the Colts, how many teams held them to less than 23 points last season? Certainly not the 49ers.

Excellent breakdown of Winovich's rookie season. Kid has the potential to make a second year leap in skill. He played 290 snaps last year, 80% were pass rush on passing downs, 19% were setting edge on running plays, and 1% were defending RBs on passing plays. His weakness on tape was too often due to lack of strength fell down to the ground.

Film room: Chase Winovich is a serious candidate to make the second-year jump

FCB02062 said:

How'd the elite man match do vs tannehill in January in Foxboro late when they needed a stop?

Click to expand...

You mean the Tannenhill who passed for a whole 72 yards. Also note that the defense allowed only 14 points including 0 in the 2nd half. That is a whole lot of stops right there.

The whole Patriots defense fell apart in the 2nd half of the year is VASTLY overblown. I did the calculation before and their PPG in the 2nd half would have been top 5. And that is with facing the 2018 and 2019 NFL MVP QBs.

Nehalem said:

You mean the Tannenhill who passed for a whole 72 yards. Also note that the defense allowed only 14 points including 0 in the 2nd half. That is a whole lot of stops right there.

The whole Patriots defense fell apart in the 2nd half of the year is VASTLY overblown. I did the calculation before and their PPG in the 2nd half would have been top 5. And that is with facing the 2018 and 2019 NFL MVP QBs.

Click to expand...

I’d love to agree with you but I don’t think those numbers tell the whole story.

They got steamrolled by Baltimore, Houston and (of all teams, in a must win game), Miami.

The PPG result you mention is built on playing the Bengals and the toothless Eagles. The only really impressive game IMO was the Cowboys after which I thought we were gonna roll the rest of the way, but was wrong.

The first 8 games our defense was historically dominant, even adjusting for the weak competition. It was unbelievable what they were doing. The last 8, we just looked decent and sometimes bad. You watched them, it’s a tough argument no matter what the numbers say.

DropKickFlutie said:

Excellent breakdown of Winovich's rookie season. Kid has the potential to make a second year leap in skill. He played 290 snaps last year, 80% were pass rush on passing downs, 19% were setting edge on running plays, and 1% were defending RBs on passing plays. His weakness on tape was too often due to lack of strength fell down to the ground.

Film room: Chase Winovich is a serious candidate to make the second-year jump

Click to expand...

Yeah, anyone expecting Wino > Tre Flowers is gonna be disappointed, and if he doesn't make the "2nd-year Leap", then at his advanced stage of development (came out as 5th-year senior) he likely won't be making a 3rd-year one either...He does have in his favor a non-stop motor that is beyond reproach; watching him chase the ball from the weak side with hustle, and cover punts & kickoffs with a near-flawless knowledge of pursuit angles is awesome...

Credit ctpatsfan on the article but it's striking this review article had Jason McCourty as the second best cover man in the league and JC Jackson as the best cover man. The second half drop off in overall defense may have been hugely related to Jason McCourty's groin injury where the Pats then no longer had 3 elite man to man corners.


The NFL's best cornerbacks in man coverage

captain stone said:

Yeah, anyone expecting Wino > Tre Flowers is gonna be disappointed, and if he doesn't make the "2nd-year Leap", then at his advanced stage of development (came out as 5th-year senior) he likely won't be making a 3rd-year one either...He does have in his favor a non-stop motor that is beyond reproach; watching him chase the ball from the weak side with hustle, and cover punts & kickoffs with a near-flawless knowledge of pursuit angles is awesome...

Click to expand...

I think the D will be amazing again with Jason McCourty back. Not a coincidence I think the defense regressed when Jason got hurt in week9

captain stone said:

Hightower seemed mostly (but not exclusively) the Inside guy, KVN the Outside guy, and Collins a little bit of both, especially during A-gap blitz calls, but more often than not was lined-up outside...

Click to expand...

I thought that KVN played some inside. I do agree that he was primarily and OLB, and Hightower is certainly out ILB.

I would list Collins as an EDGE player.

UptownPatsFan said:

Click to expand...

Surprised the Ravens play so much cover 0 with Earl Thomas playing man

UptownPatsFan said:

Click to expand...

So we use 4 linebackers and 5-6 db's a lot of times. Save money on the pricey defensive end spots....

.

UptownPatsFan said:

Click to expand...

1. It's interesting to me teams don't punish a mostly nickel and dime defense with power rushes off tackle.

2. In Madden pretty sure most people were playing nickel defense a decade ago, interesting how sometimes videogames can both emulate the reality but sometimes also be ahead of the curve as well

Last year the Pats' D had a few rough games:

- 37 points allowed to Baltimore
- 28 points allowed to Houston
- 27 points allowed to Miami

Every other game they were either very good or utterly dominant. So let's just focus on these three games.

First, the Baltimore game. 37 points allowed is rough, no matter the opponent. But much *less* rough considering the quality of the Baltimore offense last year.

Baltimore averaged 33.2 points a game, so NE allowed just over a field goal more to the Ravens than they averaged per game last year. And of those 37 points, 7 came on a defensive score for the Ravens, so the Pats' D "only" allowed 30 points in that game.

Moreover, Baltimore gained just 372 yards against the Pats, and they averaged 415 yards a game during the season (including playoffs).

So all things considered, the Patriots' D played better than the average defense did against the Ravens. Still not their best game, obviously, but not as bad as it might look initially.

Second, the Houston game. Houston averaged 23.6 points a game, so NE allowed 4.4 points more to the Texans than they averaged per game. But on a yards basis, the Pats allowed just 276 yards to Houston, and they averaged 366 per game. One of Houston's scoring drives, they got the ball at the Patriots' 21. That's almost an automatic 3 points for Houston right there.

Again, not their best game, but not as bad as it appears at first.

Third, the Dolphins game. I don't really have much good to say about this one. Miami averaged just 19.1 points a game and NE allowed 27. Miami averaged 310 yards a game and NE allowed them to rack up 389. The Patriots finally took a lead late and then the D coughed it up as Fitzpatrick drove them down the field for the winning score. Allowing 27 points at home, with the #2 seed and a first-round bye on the line, to this Dolphins team...just awful. No two ways around it.

So the Pats racked up a ton of A+ games, a bunch of A games, and of these three bad games, two were at worst C- performances. And one gigantic, big, fat, inexcusable "F".

DropKickFlutie said:

1. It's interesting to me teams don't punish a mostly nickel and dime defense with power rushes off tackle.

2. In Madden pretty sure most people were playing nickel defense a decade ago, interesting how sometimes videogames can both emulate the reality but sometimes also be ahead of the curve as well

Click to expand...

Kinda hard to run power off tackle when you are in 11 personell. If they bring in the big guys on offense, the d will just subsitute in their base