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So you would want:
DT+DE -> DL
OLB -> EDGE

Or:
DT-> DL
OLB+DE -> EDGE

Or is it a player-by-player distinction? One nice feature of the current setup is that it matches the official Patriots depth chart so there's no subjectivity and it's harder to miss players, as well as giving the added benefit of keeping the sections smaller in the UI.

I see where you're coming from. I just know the "official" roster (in quotes because it's definitely not maintained by anyone who handles football operations with the team, more likely just the website developers) has had some strange occurrences in the past with positional designations and prefer to base the positions off what was seen in games. There's definitely subjectivity in how you categorize players, but my rule of thumb has been:

NT/DT/34DE = DL
43DE/34OLB = EDGE
43OLB/MLB/34ILB = LB
 
With the uncertainty surrounding the impact of Covid 19 on the business of pro football and subsequently on the salary cap, I don’t expect cut down to be kind to higher salaried fringe veterans. Younger and cheaper players will be the benefactors of this. So, if you have young players who you want to develop, you will need to keep those players rather than risk them to waivers. My 53 projection reflects this along with my belief that the Patriots want to get younger overall anyway.

QB (2)- Stidham, Hoyer- I like Brian Lewerke to make the PS

RB (6)- White, Michel, Burkhead, Vitale, Harris, Taylor- Taylor is a good 3rd down back prospect who the Pats will want to keep with both White and Burkhead in the final year of their contracts. Brandon Bolden is a tough cut who ends up in Tampa getting 3rd down snaps with his good friend, Mr. Split-Britches.

TE (2) - Asiasi, Keene - Vitale adds some depth here with Burt, Berry and Izzo PS possibilities. If this was a normal offseason, I’d have no problem leaving Lacosse off, but it’s hard to go with just 2 rookies. This is one position where I’d have a veteran sitting on the PS ready to go.....maybe, Lacosse?

OL (8)- Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Eluemunor, Cajuste, Froholdt, Ocwenu- Cannon is my pick for the annual veteran OLineman who retires before camp. Or, he takes the year off being a cancer survivor in a Covid virus world. I think this possibility is the reason Jermaine Eluemunor and his $2.1 million salary are still around. Kory Cunningham was on the 53 man roster all last season but was only active when Marshall Newhouse was starting in place of Wynn. Cunningham is eligible for the PS now that you can have up to 4 players on it with two fully accrued seasons. But, why bother? They thought Newhouse was better last year so just sign Newhouse to the PS, and activate him if needed. That ought to be enough to give some of you nightmares.

WR (5) - Edelman, Harry, Meyers, Lee, Zuber- If Sanu doesn’t beat out Harry, Lee or Meyers to be one of the 3 starters, do you keep him at $6.5 million? Sanu was a panic buy last fall. He was not worth a 4th much less a 2nd, but they could fit his salary under their tight cap unlike Emmanuel Sanders. Lee’s every bit as good if healthy and much cheaper. I think Isaiah Zuber will prove to be a steal as an UDFA and could be a future quality #2 or 3 receiver, but it’s going to be real hard for any rookie receiver to contribute early this season. I’m not impressed with Jeff Thomas. He’s not fast or quick enough considering his lack of size. Sean Riley, though even smaller than Thomas, is a more explosive player. I’ve found very little in the way of video for Will Hastings so far to have an opinion.

STs (6) - Slater, Bethel, Cardona, Bailey, Rohrwasser, Davis

DT (5)- Guy, Allen, Butler, Cowart, Murray - Bill Murray is athletic for a man his size. The easy comparison is Mike Wright who was a darn good player. Guy and Butler are UFAs after this season, so the need is there to restock.

DE/OLB ( 5) - Simon, Winovich, Jennings, Calhoun, Coe - Dietrich Wise is a perfect example of the fringe veteran player I mentioned earlier.. He’s not bad, but do you keep him on his last year before free agency at $2.1 million when you can keep Coe who’s potentially a better player for $610,000 and have him around for another 3 seasons?

ILB (4) - Hightower, Uche, Bentley, Maluia - Cassh Maluia keeps impressing me more and more as I watch video of him. He always seems to be around the ball and is athletic and instinctive enough to be a good coverage backer. Frankly, I don’t see it in De’Jon Harris. I even like Kyahva Tezino more as a run defender than Harris.

CB (6) Gilmore, Jones, Jackson, McCourty, Williams, Ross - You can never have enough corners. Even last year. Injuries to Jones and McCourty at the end of the season might have cost them the Dolphins game. Ross was having a good TC and preseason when he was hurt last year. I think he makes the team as a backup slot corner.

S (4) - McCourty, Chung, Phillip, Dugger - Terrance Brooks was used and abused in coverage against the Titans. Joe Juan Williams will eventually end up at S if they want him to be more than just another disappointing 2nd round DB selection.
 
With the uncertainty surrounding the impact of Covid 19 on the business of pro football and subsequently on the salary cap, I don’t expect cut down to be kind to higher salaried fringe veterans. Younger and cheaper players will be the benefactors of this. So, if you have young players who you want to develop, you will need to keep those players rather than risk them to waivers. My 53 projection reflects this along with my belief that the Patriots want to get younger overall anyway.

QB (2)- Stidham, Hoyer- I like Brian Lewerke to make the PS

RB (6)- White, Michel, Burkhead, Vitale, Harris, Taylor- Taylor is a good 3rd down back prospect who the Pats will want to keep with both White and Burkhead in the final year of their contracts. Brandon Bolden is a tough cut who ends up in Tampa getting 3rd down snaps with his good friend, Mr. Split-Britches.

TE (2) - Asiasi, Keene - Vitale adds some depth here with Burt, Berry and Izzo PS possibilities. If this was a normal offseason, I’d have no problem leaving Lacosse off, but it’s hard to go with just 2 rookies. This is one position where I’d have a veteran sitting on the PS ready to go.....maybe, Lacosse?

OL (8)- Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Eluemunor, Cajuste, Froholdt, Ocwenu- Cannon is my pick for the annual veteran OLineman who retires before camp. Or, he takes the year off being a cancer survivor in a Covid virus world. I think this possibility is the reason Jermaine Eluemunor and his $2.1 million salary are still around. Kory Cunningham was on the 53 man roster all last season but was only active when Marshall Newhouse was starting in place of Wynn. Cunningham is eligible for the PS now that you can have up to 4 players on it with two fully accrued seasons. But, why bother? They thought Newhouse was better last year so just sign Newhouse to the PS, and activate him if needed. That ought to be enough to give some of you nightmares.

WR (5) - Edelman, Harry, Meyers, Lee, Zuber- If Sanu doesn’t beat out Harry, Lee or Meyers to be one of the 3 starters, do you keep him at $6.5 million? Sanu was a panic buy last fall. He was not worth a 4th much less a 2nd, but they could fit his salary under their tight cap unlike Emmanuel Sanders. Lee’s every bit as good if healthy and much cheaper. I think Isaiah Zuber will prove to be a steal as an UDFA and could be a future quality #2 or 3 receiver, but it’s going to be real hard for any rookie receiver to contribute early this season. I’m not impressed with Jeff Thomas. He’s not fast or quick enough considering his lack of size. Sean Riley, though even smaller than Thomas, is a more explosive player. I’ve found very little in the way of video for Will Hastings so far to have an opinion.

STs (6) - Slater, Bethel, Cardona, Bailey, Rohrwasser, Davis

DT (5)- Guy, Allen, Butler, Cowart, Murray - Bill Murray is athletic for a man his size. The easy comparison is Mike Wright who was a darn good player. Guy and Butler are UFAs after this season, so the need is there to restock.

DE/OLB ( 5) - Simon, Winovich, Jennings, Calhoun, Coe - Dietrich Wise is a perfect example of the fringe veteran player I mentioned earlier.. He’s not bad, but do you keep him on his last year before free agency at $2.1 million when you can keep Coe who’s potentially a better player for $610,000 and have him around for another 3 seasons?

ILB (4) - Hightower, Uche, Bentley, Maluia - Cassh Maluia keeps impressing me more and more as I watch video of him. He always seems to be around the ball and is athletic and instinctive enough to be a good coverage backer. Frankly, I don’t see it in De’Jon Harris. I even like Kyahva Tezino more as a run defender than Harris.

CB (6) Gilmore, Jones, Jackson, McCourty, Williams, Ross - You can never have enough corners. Even last year. Injuries to Jones and McCourty at the end of the season might have cost them the Dolphins game. Ross was having a good TC and preseason when he was hurt last year. I think he makes the team as a backup slot corner.

S (4) - McCourty, Chung, Phillip, Dugger - Terrance Brooks was used and abused in coverage against the Titans. Joe Juan Williams will eventually end up at S if they want him to be more than just another disappointing 2nd round DB selection.
Respectfully disagree with any of Taylor, or Zuber (whatever that is), or Murray, or Lulu or Ross making the 53 out of camp without injuries to better players...the Comedian in particular simply does not possess an NFL-caliber body, unless you loved the Joey Vellano Era...
 
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OFFENSE: 26 (plus Slater)
DEFENSE: 20 (plus Maluia, King, Bethel)
SPECIALISTS: 3
SPECIAL TEAMS: 4

The defense is short at least a couple of players. The offense has uneeded PS players. Plus, Bolden will make the 53.

10 OL is at least 1 too many.
 
This year we're denied our annual tradition of cutting Ebner on our early roster projections. :-(
 
10 OL is at least 1 too many.
9 is perfect: 3 C/Gs + 2 backups, and 2 OTs + 2 backups...As we learned last year, having more than one backup at OT - including At Least One capable LT - is crucial.
 
1. I have 23 players on Defense (24 if Onwenu is included) ..not 20. I believe Muluia and possibly King will be in the ILB rotation this season depending on opponent. Bethel is probably the only ST only player of the 3 in 2020 IMO.

2. I have Onwenu helping at NT / DT as I mentioned....not Cowart. So he is your 4th. It's possible this doesn't happen at all....we shall see.

You are a member of a very, very exclusive club. Almost no one but his family believes that Muluia will get reps on defense.

King is one of our very best STers. How many defensive reps has he ever had? He is not a LB, although I guess he could take a couple of reps very late in the game. Has King every been in the ILB "rotation"?

If you believe that Onwenu is a DT, then I would suggest you list him as a DT. After all, you have excluded Cowart or another DT because you have Onwenu as a DT.
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But the bottom line on STers is that we agree that Slater and Bethel are STO players. We both have King on the roster. You exclude Bolden and Davis.
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BOTTOM LINE ON DEFENSE
After your clarifications, I am even more convinced that your roster is short on defensive players, given that you count on Muluia, King and Onwenu for defensive reps. You have the first two in the ILB rotation, and Onwenu as a NT.
 
So you would want:
DT+DE -> DL
OLB -> EDGE

Or:
DT-> DL
OLB+DE -> EDGE

Or is it a player-by-player distinction? One nice feature of the current setup is that it matches the official Patriots depth chart so there's no subjectivity and it's harder to miss players, as well as giving the added benefit of keeping the sections smaller in the UI.

We need more discussion from those who are better on X's and O's than I am. However, I believe that 3-4 DE's (e.g Wise) are DL's and 4-3 DE's (Winovich) are usually EDGE players.
 
My first attempt:

QB (2) J.Stidham, B.Hoyer

RB (6) J.White, S.Michel, D.Harris, R.Burkhead, D.Vitale, B.Bolden
- Bolden > Yakob Yohnson.

WR (5) J.Edelman, M.Sanu, N.Harry, J.Meyers, D.Byrd
- It's Byrd vs Jeff Thomas for WR #5/Returner...

TE (2) D.Asiasi, D.Keene
- The rest = Suck.

C (2) D.Andrews, H.Froholdt
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, J.Eluemenor
T (4) I.Wynn, M.Cannon, Y.Cajuste, K.Cunningham
- Billy paid for ElManure & Cunnyham; he might as well use them...OneMenu to the PS until they figure out what to do with him...

OFFENSE (25, including Slater and Bolden)
OK, this is officially scary. I agree with every player on this roster for the OFFENSE, plus Slater as a STer (and also including Bolden). Onwenu might make the 53 man roster, but not as an offensive lineman.
 
10 OL is at least 1 too many.

There are injury questions to every player on the OL except Thuney, who might be traded, so I don't think that 10 is unreasonable.

HOWEVER, I have reconsidered and you and cap and I now agree with you. Onwenu should not make the 53 man roster as an offensive lineman. If he makes the 53, it will need to be as a DT.
 
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My first attempt:

DEFENSE

DE (4) C.Winovich, D.Wise, S.Calhoun, N.Coe
DT (4) L.Guy, B.Cowart, B.Allen, A.Butler
- Nick Coe could be a starter at DE (with Wino) by season's end...DT after Guy is pretty bad...

ILB (3) D.Hightower, A.Jennings, DJ.Harris
OLB (3) J.Simon, J.Uche, D.Rivers
- Harris is a better ILB prospect than either 5th-rounders, JaWrong Bentley or Straight cassh for maLola, homie...Really hoping that Derek Rivers has some good luck for a change...

CB (5) S.Gilmore, J.McCourty, J.Jones, J.Jackson, J.Williams

SS (3) P.Chung, A.Phillips, K.Dugger
FS (3) D.McCourty, C.Davis, J.Bethel
- Neither Davis nor Bethel are pure Free Safeties, but neither also is Terry Brooks, who Just Plain Feckin Sucks...as does Both Brandons, King and Copeland (as soon as he had to stop juicing)...

ST (4) J.Rohrwasser, J.Bailey, J.Cardona, Slater

I agree on all but 3
I have Bentley over Harris. I see Bentley being given another year.

I do NOT have Rivers, although I admire your hope. A top STer, King, gets the spot. If Rivers is healthy and worthy of a roster spot, I think that he would beat out Calhoun.

I have Coe on the Practice Squad. For this Player 53 spot, I have either Copeland or Onwenu or Brooks.

Upon further review, Harris could be the choice.
=====
I think that many of us have undervalued Phillips as a safety. Upon further review, he should beat out Brooks.

BOTTOM LINE (We differ on only 2)

You have Rivers and Coe.
I have Bentley and King.

In the end, I believe that Belichick will keep Bentley and King. He has favored them in the past.
 
This year we're denied our annual tradition of cutting Ebner on our early roster projections. :-(

Many will substitute other top Ster's like Slater, Bethel, King or Bolden.
 
You are a member of a very, very exclusive club. Almost no one but his family believes that Muluia will get reps on defense.

King is one of our very best STers. How many defensive reps has he ever had? He is not a LB, although I guess he could take a couple of reps very late in the game. Has King every been in the ILB "rotation"?

If you believe that Onwenu is a DT, then I would suggest you list him as a DT. After all, you have excluded Cowart or another DT because you have Onwenu as a DT.
======
But the bottom line on STers is that we agree that Slater and Bethel are STO players. We both have King on the roster. You exclude Bolden and Davis.
========
BOTTOM LINE ON DEFENSE
After your clarifications, I am even more convinced that your roster is short on defensive players, given that you count on Muluia, King and Onwenu for defensive reps. You have the first two in the ILB rotation, and Onwenu as a NT.

Cassh is a 6’ 250 lb speed guy and will take some reps that Roberts (who he has been compared to) had. And I agree King had next to no defensive reps in the past...I think that will change some this season. There is no question they need speed at LB. Cassh, who was drafted in the 6th round...has been mentioned in numerous articles that he will take snaps at ILB this year.
 
1. I'm one of those that believes that ST only players should be few and far between. I don't have a problem with Slater or King and maybe one other but I prefer those positions be replaced by rookies or younger players that also have roles on defense or offense (Slater if a HOF player on ST IMO...so I am not diminishing his contributions.) ..

Where we differ is that I consider Special Teams a unit, just like offense and defense. Fo me, starting STers like Slater, Bethel, King and Bolden are locks, not afterthoughts depending on their contributions at other positions. Also, I do NOT think that there are lots of backups who are close to these players in production.

MY BOTTOM LINE
is that I value top STO's player much higher that the #6 WR or #5 WR or the #9 OL or the #5 safety.
 
Cassh is a 6’ 250 lb speed guy and will take some reps that Roberts (who he has been compared to) had. And I agree King had next to no defensive reps in the past...I think that will change some this season. There is no question they need speed at LB. Cassh, who was drafted in the 6th round...has been mentioned in numerous articles that he will take snaps at ILB this year.

I get it.

How bad are our backups at LB? They are worse that a player who has almost never played LB, even in several years on the team. They are worse than a player who was about #700 among draft-ready players.

So, in the end, it is simply a disagreement about who should should have ILB reps: Muluia or Bentley or Harris. For me, King is one of our top STer, so I have no argument with calling him a LB or a safe for that matter; he won't play defense since there will be no need, even with a couple of injuries.
 
Where we differ is that I consider Special Teams a unit, just like offense and defense. Fo me, starting STers like Slater, Bethel, King and Bolden are locks, not afterthoughts depending on their contributions at other positions. Also, I do NOT think that there are lots of backups who are close to these players in production.

MY BOTTOM LINE
is that I value top STO's player much higher that the #6 WR or #5 WR or the #9 OL or the #5 safety.

I’ve always been aware of your ST thoughts on players...we don’t agree. But in no way shape or form do I consider anyone on the 53 an afterthought. We need to be faster and more versatile at LB and SS...I think the draft addressed that some. And no matter how many times you say I think Onwenu is a DT...he is not until he is....which I very much hope he is a fantastic NT at some point...but that point is not today.
 
1. I'm one of those that believes that ST only players should be few and far between. I don't have a problem with Slater or King and maybe one other but I prefer those positions be replaced by rookies or younger players that also have roles on defense or offense (Slater if a HOF player on ST IMO...so I am not diminishing his contributions.) SO that's one of the reasons for no Bolden. Don't get me wrong I love the guy. 5-6 years ago I was one of the few on this site that praised his abilities (and shot down for it) and pushed for him to be in the regular RB rotation. I think the Pats are making a push (intentional or not) to get younger as every team should. 30 year old only ST player Bolden is starting to age a bit.

2. I have 7 WR's including Slater because of the unknowns at the position. Hastings will be valuable to Stidham because of there familiarity. I have always agreed with you in regards to the number of receptions WR 5 and WR 6 get....it's not much at all. However Stidham is going to need all the options he can get and I think they will also try to keep Hastings on the 53 because he will be snatched up from the PS.

3. I would much rather have Vitale / Johnson as a TE backup then LaCosse and you save a spot.

4. I picked Cunningham for his NFL experience (even though its limited) and didn't want all the backups on the OL to be rookies or 2nd year players with zero experience. It's been my belief that Eluemanuer is a better G then T. I'm not sure he played any T last season but I could be wrong. I think it's better to have a T play T then a G play T and weaken that position. I do agree that Fro is a backup center (along with G) and could possibly be the starter one day.


I tend to agree, I saw the value in STs along time ago but with all the rule changes to kickoffs, i think you seriously have to question having 5-6 specialists on your team when all they really do is cover punts. A very important aspect of the game, but im not convinced we need as many specialists as we've traditionally had on the roster . Should be able to find rookies who can contribute at a position and contribute on special teams
 
Are you suggesting that unless we put him on our 53, Hastings will choose someone else's Practicee Squad to ours?
No, he will be put on another team's 53. I would hate seeing him become a star on another team. I guess we'll wait until he is on the field before we judge him.
 
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