DRAFT Dalton Keene

TheRazorsEdge · May 6, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Why was he underused if he was the player some are making him out to be? He's a high effort guy, and I'm sure he has a lot of people hoping he succeeds, but his play screams JAG.

Type of offense being run...coaching...bad qb play... Etc etc etc

TheRazorsEdge · May 6, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Aaron Hernandez was a difference maker in college. Keene is a high-effort guy...nothing more.

I would wager the surrounding talent on respective teams impacted both players tremendously.

Also not saying Keene = Hernandez just that "being a below average blocker" doesn't mean you can't find other ways to contribute.

Ras-IR Dowling · May 6, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Why was he underused if he was the player some are making him out to be? He's a high effort guy, and I'm sure he has a lot of people hoping he succeeds, but his play screams JAG.

By that line of thinking, why was Kittle underused at Iowa?

*Dont take this as me saying he’s George Kittle

TheRazorsEdge · May 6, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
By that line of thinking, why was Kittle underused at Iowa?

*Dont take this as me saying he’s George Kittle

Right on. What's getting lost in the sauce in all this is the fact that projection of what a player might be plays a big part on if you draft him or not.

Smart, Committed, Selfless , Tough , Gym Rat...Football Junkie.. Locker room Leader..Fan Favorite.. Teammates feed off his energy..."put me in to do whatever is needed coach" type of mentality...that all plays into the equation.

Lets see how it looks 3 years from now. He might be the next Kittle.. He might be the next Garrett Mills...lets see how it pans out.

jimnance · May 6, 2020

iapatsfan said:
The guy is a high effort average-below average player. His career is evidence of that.

You two have something in common.

Wozzy · May 6, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Don't read about it. Watch him. He tries hard, but he's an avg-below avg tight end...in every way.

I watched him a lot. I also rank my prospects prior to the draft, so this isn't a case of my rubber stamping Belichick's picks.

He's not only an effort guy, but he's one of the most athletically gifted TE's in the draft class. Of all the TE's he's one of the few that actually partook in every combine drill and also excelled at them. He caught a high percentage of his targets and was a good blocker in college.

Virginia Tech barely passed the ball, their QB was 2nd on the team in rushing attempts. If a receiving option doesn't garner targets because the team passes the 11th fewest times in the ACC... that's hardly the receiver's fault. Only three team in the ACC attempted fewer passes then the Hokies, he can only catch the ones thrown his way.

I said the same thing about Foster Moreau last season, that his lack of targets in college wouldn't prevent him from being a receiving option. He led the Raiders in receiving TD's until he blew out his knee and still ended up 2nd on the team in receiving TD's. Moreau was also their best blocking TE and caught 84% of his targets.

Like I said, poor assessment...

mgteich · May 6, 2020

I suspect that we are going overboard with our assessment of our 3rd round TE picks.

What would we normally hope for from two 3rd rounders? I suspect that we would generally be fine with a 2021 starter and a 2021 contributor. We would hope for some serious contribution for one of them as a rookie. This year, help from at least one of them in 2020 is essential.

ctpatsfan77 · May 6, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
By that line of thinking, why was Kittle underused at Iowa?

*Dont take this as me saying he’s George Kittle

Too late.

PatsFanInVa · May 6, 2020

Coolade said:
Kittle , Kelce.

Keene . O K.... !

That's a bad number of Ks. Please tell me you didn't know you did that.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

jimnance said:
You two have something in common.

No...I am not a fan of playing team sports. Enjoy watching them only.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

TheRazorsEdge said:
Right on. What's getting lost in the sauce in all this is the fact that projection of what a player might be plays a big part on if you draft him or not.

Smart, Committed, Selfless , Tough , Gym Rat...Football Junkie.. Locker room Leader..Fan Favorite.. Teammates feed off his energy..."put me in to do whatever is needed coach" type of mentality...that all plays into the equation.

Lets see how it looks 3 years from now. He might be the next Kittle.. He might be the next Garrett Mills...lets see how it pans out.

So we drafted a slightly more athletic than average TE "Rudy" in the 3rd round? Little to no production to speak of. Seems about right. I fully expect him to go the way of Geneo Grissom (slightly athletic/no-production 3rd rounder).

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
By that line of thinking, why was Kittle underused at Iowa?

*Dont take this as me saying he’s George Kittle

Kittle was a much better athlete and taken in the 5th. Bad comparison.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Wozzy said:
I watched him a lot. I also rank my prospects prior to the draft, so this isn't a case of my rubber stamping Belichick's picks.

He's not only an effort guy, but he's one of the most athletically gifted TE's in the draft class. Of all the TE's he's one of the few that actually partook in every combine drill and also excelled at them. He caught a high percentage of his targets and was a good blocker in college.

Virginia Tech barely passed the ball, their QB was 2nd on the team in rushing attempts. If a receiving option doesn't garner targets because the team passes the 11th fewest times in the ACC... that's hardly the receiver's fault. Only three team in the ACC attempted fewer passes then the Hokies, he can only catch the ones thrown his way.

I said the same thing about Foster Moreau last season, that his lack of targets in college wouldn't prevent him from being a receiving option. He led the Raiders in receiving TD's until he blew out his knee and still ended up 2nd on the team in receiving TD's. Moreau was also their best blocking TE and caught 84% of his targets.

Like I said, poor assessment...

Athletically he tested slightly better than the average TE. People keep treating him like he tested out of the gym. He tested slightly above avg and had no production. He's a JAG.

Ras-IR Dowling · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Kittle was a much better athlete and taken in the 5th. Bad comparison.

I literally said not to take me as saying Keene was George kittle.

I was saying that kittle was a case of a player being underutilized in college. It happens. Proof that not every player who puts up jag stats in college stays a jag in the pros.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
I literally said not to take me as saying Keene was George kittle.

I was saying that kittle was a case of a player being underutilized in college. It happens. Proof that not every player who puts up jag stats in college stays a jag in the pros.

Kittle was far from a JAG athlete. Keene is not. I believe Patriots.com posted Keene's numbers vs the TE average. Where are these superior athletic traits people speak of?

Ras-IR Dowling · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
Kittle was far from a JAG athlete. Keene is not. I believe Patriots.com posted Keene's numbers vs the TE average. Where are these superior athletic traits people speak of?

Jesus dude, you gotta be trolling at this point. Not comparing their athletic abilities, just their college numbers. Your clearly deflecting the conversion from this aspect and trying to move it to their athletic abilities.

jah · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
Jesus dude, you gotta be trolling at this point.

That's been a known fact for quite some time. I don't use the ignore list much, but that poster deserves it.

Patsgofor4 · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
No...I am not a fan of playing team sports. Enjoy watching them only.

iapatsfan · May 7, 2020

Ras-IR Dowling said:
Jesus dude, you gotta be trolling at this point. Not comparing their athletic abilities, just their college numbers. Your clearly deflecting the conversion from this aspect and trying to move it to their athletic abilities.

I am saying if a player has little to no college production (Kittle or Keene), there should be something special that causes a team to draft them as high as the 3rd round. Kittle had special athleticism (drafted in the 5th). Jimmy Graham would be another example of a special athlete with minimal college production. Keene had little to no college production, but his athleticism is nothing special (drafted in the 3rd).

In other words, Keene's lack of production is much easier to explain than Kittle's. Keene is an average athlete relative to others at the position.

A JAG athlete with JAG production is different than a special athlete with JAG production. One is worth the risk of a 3rd round pick. One is not.

Ras-IR Dowling · May 7, 2020

iapatsfan said:
I am saying if a player has little to no college production (Kittle or Keene), there should be something special that causes a team to draft them as high as the 3rd round. Kittle had special athleticism (drafted in the 5th). Jimmy Graham would be another example of a special athlete with minimal college production. Keene had little to no college production, but his athleticism is nothing special (drafted in the 3rd).

In other words, Keene's lack of production is much easier to explain than Kittle's. Keene is an average athlete relative to others at the position.

A JAG athlete with JAG production is different than a special athlete with JAG production. One is worth the risk of a 3rd round pick. One is not.

So long story short is you either can’t or don’t want to explain kittles lack of production at Iowa.

DRAFT Dalton Keene

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